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Thread: Is a tension workout better than a depletion on fri (from lyles journal)

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001

    Is a tension workout better than a depletion on fri (from lyles journal)

    I read this in lyle's journal, what he is saying seems to make sense to me. Anyone know what his current thoughts on this idea are?

    Dan suggests the following schedule to optimize results from Bodyopus:
    Mon: high tension workout for half of the body
    Tuesday: high tension workout for other half of the body
    The purpose of these two workouts is to instill an anabolic response
    to prevent muscle loss while dieting. I'll come back to this.
    Wed/Thu: aerobics optional to burn ketone calories
    Fri: high rep, 2 hour depletion workout.
    The purpose of this workout is to deplete muscle glycogen so that
    total supercompensation can occur.

    What I'm thinking is this: What if you switched around the workout schedule
    to something like this:
    Mon: either full body 2 hour depletion workout or split body into Mon and Tue.
    Tue: aerobics or other half of body depletion workout. Perhaps followed by
    interval training (which, as I mentioned in the Week 4 update) would serve
    to clear out what little glycogen (especially liver glycogen) might be left
    and help you get into ketosis faster.
    Wed: aerobics
    Thu or Thu/Fri: do high tension workout (either full body on Friday or
    split routine on Thu and Fri).
    Sat/Sun: no training

    Alternately, you could just ditch the damn depletion workout and train
    normally on some type of split routine. I'd put any weak bodyparts
    on Monday and Tuesday to take advantage of whatever strength increases
    you get from the carb loading. Or perhaps use a split like:

    Mon: legs, back, bis: 1-2 exercises per bodypart or POF or something
    Tue: chest, delts, tris: 1-2 exercises per bodypart or POF or something
    Fri: whole body: 1 exercise per bodypart for 2-3 sets to failure.

    This would do double duty. You can take advantage of the carbo loading
    on Mon and Tue and then get all muscles trained on Friday before the carb
    up to take advantage of the anabolic rush. In fact, that's what I'm going to
    do this week.

    Here's the rationale: BO is meant to be a fat loss diet and you don't get into
    major fat burning until you hit ketosis. Which can't occur until you drop blood
    glucose below 50 and empty out liver glycogen (muscle glycogen doesn't really
    matter as far as ketosis is concerned). Doing the depletion workout first
    in the week would presumably drop glycogen and blood glucose levels faster
    than a normal high tension workout. Interval training would accomplish
    the same thing. But, Dan says that high intensity aerobics burn muscle.
    What about sprinters? Or Shawn Phillips for that matter (see MM2000
    article by Shawn on High Intensity Interval Training for fat loss several
    months back). Yes, long duration, high intensity activity will probably
    cause a loss of muscle but intervals don't *seem* to cause that at least
    not done in any reasonable amount. Would three days of interval training
    while in ketosis hasten fat loss? Maybe, but it would suck big time
    wind to do.

    Also, doing the high tension workouts on Thu/Fri or whole body on Friday
    means that, in the first 30 hours post workout, you would be able to take
    advantage of the insulin and GH pulse that you get while recarbing.

    Possible drawbacks to the Lyle method:
    1. Can't take advantage of the super-glycogenated muscles on Mon and Tue
    which (supposedly) make you stronger. Personally, I haven't noticed a
    monster difference as it is. A buddy of mine did feel extrememly strong
    following recarb this last week but we can't be sure if was because:
    a. the carbing worked really well for him.
    b. he loaded creatine that weekend during recarb.
    c. he took more ephedrine than usual.

    I put my money on 'b' and 'c'.

    2. Soreness from high tension workout may impair carbing. But, question:
    why wouldn't this apply to normal training. I mean, on a high carb
    diet, there's no problem getting carbs into the muscles.

    Here's what I think the problem is: I think that Dan designed BO for the
    competitive bodybuilder who's getting ready for a contest. In this case,
    doing the high rep depletion workout prior to recarbing makes perfect
    sense. That allows all carbs to go to refilling the muscles without
    being drawn away for repairing the damaged muscle fibers. But, what
    about those of us simply using BO to lose fat and maintain or even gain
    a bit of muscle at the same time? In this case, using the depletion
    workout to get into ketosis more quickly *should* allow you to get into
    fat burning more quickly. And, since getting every last drop of carbs
    into the muscle isn't as critical (since we're not preparing for a contest),
    doing your high tension workout immediately prior to the recarb might
    create more of an anabolic response than doing it when carbs are lower
    (which also allows cortisol to be higher as carbs lower cortisol
    levels) early in the week.

    A lot of this came out of the differences between Pasquale's Anabolic
    Diet (AD) and Dan's Bodyopus (BO) which I'll be summarizing and getting
    into in the prelude to the week 6 update. The AD seems geared towards
    gaining mass with minimal fat gain which is why calories are not restricted.
    For that goal, training more 'normally' might be more beneficial. BO seems
    geared towards maximizing fat loss while minimizing muscle loss
    which is why it's set up the way it is (calories at maintenance or below).

    Anyone out there have any comments on this idea? Dan?
    my other favorite forum! Check it out!

  2. #2
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Vancouver, B.C.
    I would stick to the depletion workout. As mentioned, POF may induce some high level of soreness which in turn can impair gylcogen uptake into the muscles. If the point of the carb up is load as much carbs and as efficiently into the muscles as possible then it seem to be counter productive to induce soreness post carb up.

    Just my thoughts.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

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  3. #3
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    I was brainstorming something similar to that a couple of weeks ago, actually, and I think that method makes more sense. The only inconvinience I see is that there is more work done during ketosis, and I really hate keto workouts.
    I say give it a try, it can't hurt.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine


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