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Thread: arms fail/tired during end of workout

  1. #1
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    arms fail/tired during end of workout

    Hi guys i'm on a 3 day split. I do Back/Biceps on the same day.

    During this day, I'll start off with lat pulldown and seated rows before I get to deadlifts. I save my biceps for the final part of my workout. After 3-4 sets of deadlifting, my arms apparently refuse to lift anymore and I can barely do bicep curls @ 25lbs for 3 reps on my first set...

    My hands/forearms feel tired or just fail..ESPECIALLY my hands

    I'm 115lbs, 19 yrs, 5'8

    I've been consistent with my workouts for about 2 1/2 months now. I'm doing my absolute best to fit in enough calories daily...

    Would alternating between back & bicep workouts be a good idea instead of saving my biceps for last? Like do curls first, deadlifts after, preacher curls next..?

  2. #2
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    The problem with that is your biceps are such a small muscle group. I'd save the isolation stuff for AFTER your compounds.

    Perhaps work an extra day just for your arms if need be...but unless you want your pulldowns, deadlifts, etc to suffer, do your arms first.
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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    Hi guys i'm on a 3 day split. I do Back/Biceps on the same day.

    During this day, I'll start off with lat pulldown and seated rows before I get to deadlifts. I save my biceps for the final part of my workout. After 3-4 sets of deadlifting, my arms apparently refuse to lift anymore and I can barely do bicep curls @ 25lbs for 3 reps on my first set...

    My hands/forearms feel tired or just fail..ESPECIALLY my hands

    I'm 115lbs, 19 yrs, 5'8

    I've been consistent with my workouts for about 2 1/2 months now. I'm doing my absolute best to fit in enough calories daily...

    Would alternating between back & bicep workouts be a good idea instead of saving my biceps for last? Like do curls first, deadlifts after, preacher curls next..?
    Your situation is 100% normal. Being 115lbs don't even think about training your biceps with more priority than your back. Keep it as is.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 12-26-2011 at 03:04 PM.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  4. #4
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Lol at you are doing your best to eat enough calories. If so, your best SUCKS! How can you even make that statement when the facts obviously contradict it? You are 119 lbs at 5'8". Most slim women weigh more than you (if you are a woman I take all this back).

    You will never accomplish shit in the gym if you don't fuel the adaptation you seek.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Lol at you are doing your best to eat enough calories. If so, your best SUCKS! How can you even make that statement when the facts obviously contradict it? You are 119 lbs at 5'8". Most slim women weigh more than you (if you are a woman I take all this back).

    You will never accomplish shit in the gym if you don't fuel the adaptation you seek.
    shit lol if this doesn't get me motivated more i don't know what will

    but seriously is this partially the truth or is what Behomoth said also true?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Lol at you are doing your best to eat enough calories. If so, your best SUCKS! How can you even make that statement when the facts obviously contradict it? You are 119 lbs at 5'8". Most slim women weigh more than you (if you are a woman I take all this back).

    You will never accomplish shit in the gym if you don't fuel the adaptation you seek.
    also do you think im focusing on the foods i SHOULDN't be eating too much?? Should I be eating just about everything?

  7. #7
    Senior Member GazzyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    also do you think im focusing on the foods i SHOULDN't be eating too much?? Should I be eating just about everything?
    At 115lbs just eat everything that's not nailed down!
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Until you start eating more everything in the gym is going to suffer! You should be eating some junk food (burgers, fries, ice cream) on top of whole foods like peanut butter, milk, steak, rice, shakes. At 115 lbs and 5'8" you need to be shoveling the food down. Trust me I was around that exact same weight when I was 16 and I'm 5'10 " and until I started eating tons of food my efforts in the weight room were horrible.

  9. #9
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    shit lol if this doesn't get me motivated more i don't know what will

    but seriously is this partially the truth or is what Behomoth said also true?
    If you don't take what I said to heart and practice it you might as well forget training. There is no point.


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  10. #10
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    shit lol if this doesn't get me motivated more i don't know what will

    but seriously is this partially the truth or is what Behomoth said also true?
    what I commented on was ancillary muscle groups failing during isolation movements after using them in compound movements is normal. it doesn't mean you are or aren't eating enough.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  11. #11
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    Okay so I have to start eating more + I'll start training biceps first on back day.

    Few questions
    1- I drink a protein shake 30 mins before and after a workout. Is this good, should I be eating something else? Any preferred/recommended foods?

    2-Should I use a 4th day to train JUST my biceps, instead of linking it with back day?
    scenario 1
    Back
    Biceps
    Chest/Should/Tri
    Legs

    Or stick to my current 3day split which is
    scenario 2
    back/biceps
    chest/should/tric
    legs

    or try something new
    scenario 3
    5 day:
    Monday Chest
    Tuesday Back
    Wednesday Legs and calves
    Thursday Shoulders, abs and forearms
    Friday Arms (biceps and triceps)
    Sat/Sun Rest
    Last edited by chamberlain; 01-02-2012 at 02:39 AM.

  12. #12
    Wannabebig Member Spartian's Avatar
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    I would personally recommend you forget splits, they're awful in my experience. Look at something focused round getting stronger and based round compounds. 5x5, or HCT-12 are my personal favourites. However, the workout will never work unless you eat just as people have said above. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR!

    - Milk might help you meet calorie needs if your finding it tough to eat so much.
    - at 115lbs you really really need to take nutrition seriously! Forget isolations for the time being.

    There are loads of great articles here that can point you in the right direction.

  13. #13
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    Okay so I have to start eating more + I'll start training biceps first on back day.

    Few questions
    1- I drink a protein shake 30 mins before and after a workout. Is this good, should I be eating something else? Any preferred/recommended foods?

    2-Should I use a 4th day to train JUST my biceps, instead of linking it with back day?
    scenario 1
    Back
    Biceps
    Chest/Should/Tri
    Legs

    Or stick to my current 3day split which is
    scenario 2
    back/biceps
    chest/should/tric
    legs

    or try something new
    scenario 3
    5 day:
    Monday Chest
    Tuesday Back
    Wednesday Legs and calves
    Thursday Shoulders, abs and forearms
    Friday Arms (biceps and triceps)
    Sat/Sun Rest
    You completely missed the point of what Behemoth said. No one said for you to train your biceps before your back. That's retarded, and setting you up for injury.

    Stick with your split, and eat. It's your fucking biceps, they need like 3-4 sets a week at this point.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    You completely missed the point of what Behemoth said. No one said for you to train your biceps before your back. That's retarded, and setting you up for injury.

    Stick with your split, and eat. It's your fucking biceps, they need like 3-4 sets a week at this point.
    Post #2 suggested it, or add another day for biceps. Thought I'd give it a try, guess that's not a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartian View Post
    I would personally recommend you forget splits, they're awful in my experience. Look at something focused round getting stronger and based round compounds. 5x5, or HCT-12 are my personal favourites. However, the workout will never work unless you eat just as people have said above. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR!

    - Milk might help you meet calorie needs if your finding it tough to eat so much.
    - at 115lbs you really really need to take nutrition seriously! Forget isolations for the time being.

    There are loads of great articles here that can point you in the right direction.
    I read the HCT-12. Can you point me to a 5x5 you're referring to?

    I'll stick with my 3 day split for now
    Last edited by chamberlain; 01-02-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  15. #15
    Wannabebig Member Spartian's Avatar
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    Training biceps first is idiotic.

    Give HCT a serious look.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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  17. #17
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    The problem with that is your biceps are such a small muscle group. I'd save the isolation stuff for AFTER your compounds.

    Perhaps work an extra day just for your arms if need be...but unless you want your pulldowns, deadlifts, etc to suffer, do your arms first.
    Quote Originally Posted by chamberlain View Post
    Post #2 suggested it, or add another day for biceps. Thought I'd give it a try, guess that's not a good idea.
    City mispoke. He meant to say 'do your arms LAST.' This is obvious from his previous sentence, where he states to do compounds (most back exercises: deadlifts, rows, chins/pulldowns) before you do isolation (bicep curls, etc.) exercises.

  18. #18
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    I started eating a bit more and I've seen some results (not entirely though) when doing my arm workouts last. Feel less tired than before.

    I also wanted to ask if doing ab exercises 2-3 times a week is a waste of time? Since I'm supposed to be gaining weight and getting a lot of calories, I find it hard to eat only clean/healthy foods to maintain a six pack. Is it impossible to gain weight and keep a six pack?

  19. #19
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    Hey man I used to be in your shoes, I was 120 pounds at 5'9. You need to eat all you can stomach. When you are not used to it, eating 4k calories a day is a lot! I would seriously aim for that many calories at your weight with a lot of carbs (300+) a lot of protien (180 grams daily) and a lot of healthy fats.

    You will never see gains with your metabolism without eating a lot. Trust me. I had to eat that much just to reach 150 lbs.

    Don't worry about abs man, just lift heavy (I suggest you do baby got back or starting strength, personal favorites) eat as much as I was, and rest on your off days.

    You'll see results and feel better when you eat enough to backup the workouts.
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  20. #20
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    It's obvious you aren't grasping the food concept. Your training is fine. You're a rail because you aren't eating even close to enough. Eating a little more isn't going to do shit. You need to be eating at least 4,000 cals per day.


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    Senior Member ZAR-FIT's Avatar
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    You cant have the mind set of the typical high schooler and think that lifting will make you ripped and big.... Eating will make you big and ripped. Especially at your age, I dare you to try to look overweight, because you are going to have a growth spurt and the surge of testosterone will lean you out and you will be amazed. Just start eating... a lot. The same situation happened with my girlfriends little brother. I started training him and worked on his diet about a year before his big growth spurt. I had him eat peanut butter with almost every meal. High Carbs High Protein and peanut butter. dont skip out on any of mom's home cooking. He was worried about looking fat and I promised him he'd be happy.... well, his growth spurt hit and suddenly this short boy was a ripped up muscular 16 year old....

    Eat kid.
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    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    Whatever you eat now, double it. If you don't start gaining weight, double it again.

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    You need to keep a food diary and write everything you eat in it. Most people think of these as mainly used for losing weight, but they are just as effective for gaining weight.

    You HAVE to make sure you're eating good food. Don't expect a good body if you are eating McDonalds four times a day. Is it high in calories? Yes. Is it shitty food that will just hurt your training? Yes.

    You need to fall in love with peanut butter (or almond butter,) steak, chicken, pasta, brown rice, oatmeal, eggs, green veggies (a LOT of these,) fruits (don't go overboard with the citrus fruits though..,) potatoes, bread (I like sourdough personally,) onions, etc.

    When we say you need to eat a lot, it's a requirement to gain. You can work out all you want and have the perfect routine but if you don't have the food to back it up you're just going to lose weigh or be tired all the time. You will never see gains without eating your bodies daily maintenance in calories (which given your size i'm ball parking is 3k calories a day) and then add another thousand or two.

    I know boxers that eat 7,000 calories a day. Luckily, you only need to eat 4k calories or so a day to see gains.

    Also I didn't pull the 4k calories, 180 grams of protien, 300+ carbs, and a lot of healthy fats out of my ass. For your height and weight, that is the average needs to see gains of mass and support your body's needs. I only know because i'm 5'9 and I memorized the formulas that tell you how many of each you should be eating.
    Last edited by LilHillbilly; 01-31-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Keep it simple. Eat more and stick with the big compound lifts. You dont need bicep curls or an arm day. Your arms will get plenty of work from the other lifts. Focus on eating more and lifting heavy. You do this and you will grow, if not you wont. Its just that simple.

  25. #25
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    appreciate the responses

    Quote Originally Posted by LilHillbilly View Post
    You need to keep a food diary and write everything you eat in it. Most people think of these as mainly used for losing weight, but they are just as effective for gaining weight.

    You HAVE to make sure you're eating good food. Don't expect a good body if you are eating McDonalds four times a day. Is it high in calories? Yes. Is it shitty food that will just hurt your training? Yes.

    You need to fall in love with peanut butter (or almond butter,) steak, chicken, pasta, brown rice, oatmeal, eggs, green veggies (a LOT of these,) fruits (don't go overboard with the citrus fruits though..,) potatoes, bread (I like sourdough personally,) onions, etc.

    When we say you need to eat a lot, it's a requirement to gain. You can work out all you want and have the perfect routine but if you don't have the food to back it up you're just going to lose weigh or be tired all the time. You will never see gains without eating your bodies daily maintenance in calories (which given your size i'm ball parking is 3k calories a day) and then add another thousand or two.

    I know boxers that eat 7,000 calories a day. Luckily, you only need to eat 4k calories or so a day to see gains.

    Also I didn't pull the 4k calories, 180 grams of protien, 300+ carbs, and a lot of healthy fats out of my ass. For your height and weight, that is the average needs to see gains of mass and support your body's needs. I only know because i'm 5'9 and I memorized the formulas that tell you how many of each you should be eating.
    this is basically the stuff im eating right now, Looks like Ill have to start eating more of it + Peanut butter with every meal sounds like I'll do that. Does it matter how I cook chicken (is pan fry fine)? for fruits I usually go with bananas and apples. Is fast-food OK once in a while (once a week? or less frequently than that?)

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