The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Standing Barbell OH Presses... Really Necessary?

    I had a few questions / concerns about standing OH presses.

    I am used to doing seated BTN presses where I can handle around 165 for 4 reps. Approximately. Maybe little more. Then yesterday I did 155 for 2.5 reps on standing OH presses, with some extra momentum.

    I have a few questions. (1) Is it terribly horrible to use a little momentum? Not turning the movement into a push press but simply using a tad of body English. (i.e. - going up on the balls of your feet, etc.)

    And (2) How far down should I take the bar? I was going right about chin level or a little lower. Whenever I did BTN presses I only went down to about my ears. I kind of preferred a shorter ROM, what do you guys think?

    MS
    Last edited by MonStar; 06-12-2002 at 10:34 AM.

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  3. #2
    ...fattest...fatter...fat. WannaBeStrong's Avatar
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    Why not do a weight you can press comfortably without "body english?"

    I (used to) take mine to the front of my neck.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Fudomyo's Avatar
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    No body english, and full ROM is what you want for front deltoid development. Just to the ears sounds like a tricep exercise, sure you could press more. To the front, just off your chest, nice straight back (takes the chest out of it), and you'll be trashing the ole front delts.

    Sure you'll probably have to lower the weight, but you'll actually be using the muscle you want.

    Fudo

  5. #4
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    If he uses his legs at all doesn't that just make it a push press?
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  6. #5
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  7. #6
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Push presses arent what I am doing at all.

    Maybe I will lower the weight then and take my body English out and just keep getting a full ROM. Well see what happens.

    I just cant get over how much harder this exercise is than BTN presses. Thats amazing.

    MS

  8. #7
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    ... How necessary are OH presses for delt development out of curiosity?

    I know that theyre a compound movement but my front delts seem to get murdered on chest day. And my side delts get hit hard on side laterals. I am just wondering because I dont want them affecting my bench press strength etc. My split looks like this.

    • DAY 1: chest, triceps
    • DAY 2: back, biceps, forearms
    • DAY 3: rest
    • DAY 4: quads, hamstrings calves
    • DAY 5: delts, traps, abs
    • DAY 6: rest
    • DAY 7: rest

    I am jus thinking since I hit my front delts pretty hard with bench how necessarry front OH presses are. I could be way off. I am just thinking that more of side-delt movement might I might benefit more from. (i.e. - wide-grip upright rows) etc.

    MS

  9. #8
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    Push presses arent what I am doing at all.

    Maybe I will lower the weight then and take my body English out and just keep getting a full ROM. Well see what happens.

    I just cant get over how much harder this exercise is than BTN presses. Thats amazing.

    MS
    Sorry bro, I didn't read your whole post, my bad!
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  10. #9
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Dont worry about it man, curious though what is your opinion of no OH pressing at all?

    MS

  11. #10
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    Dont worry about it man, curious though what is your opinion of no OH pressing at all?

    MS
    Personally, I do a seated military press. I am giving HST a shot at the moment, day 5 is tomorrow. IMO, some sort of overhead press is important to shoulder development.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  12. #11
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NateDogg


    Personally, I do a seated military press. I am giving HST a shot at the moment, day 5 is tomorrow. IMO, some sort of overhead press is important to shoulder development.
    Really>? Thats actually what I am trying to figure out. I cant decide if I think that some kind of OH press is necessary for delt development..

    MS

  13. #12
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    I cant decide if I think that some kind of OH press is necessary for delt development
    Necessary? No. Helpful? They can be.

    I'm currently avoiding shoulder presses and am concentrating on lateral raises as my primary shoulder movement. My shoulders have grown ... take that for what it's worth, but it seems like (as always) less is more.

  14. #13
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Otter-
    Really, thats interesting. This is kind of emphasizing the point that I am making.

    I think that OH presses then bench presses / dips etc. will simply overtrain the front delts. Excessively hiting the front delts and all thats necessary for hitting the side-delts is a lateral or upright row movement.

    MS

  15. #14
    Senior Member Fudomyo's Avatar
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    It probably depends on whether you are happy with your delt development now or not.

    I think both front db raises and the military press have helped my deltoids grow. Incline and flat bench will still use a fair amount of anterior deltoid. Your pecs attach to your upper arm just under the anterior delt, so they add a lot to the fullness there.

    I think it has added to my bicep / delt line, so I'm going to continue one or both of these.

    Like you said, they are very hard, which usually means they are quite effective. See squats, pullups, dips, etc. if you have any questions

    Fudo

  16. #15
    bone crusher
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    i agree, they are probably no more necessary than direct arm work

    now as for the standing OH press, if you put a little leg into the concentric movement i would not worry. You can get great negatives out of this exercise.

    lately i have been performing clean and press. There is some leg involvement here, and also recruitment of the traps in addition to the delts/tris. Since the legs assist on the concentric, i concentrate on the delts on the eccentric motion

  17. #16
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    ... Good point guys. Maybe theyre not necessary but how beneficial are they really?

    My front delts are completely sore the day after chest movements. Far more sore than any kind of OH presses. Honestly the only thing that I think you really need to hit hard your side delts for optimal delt development.

    Right now I am currently very happy with my delt development. But then again that doesnt mean that they wouldnt benefit from some extra size.

    MS

  18. #17
    Simplistic
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    ... How necessary are OH presses for delt development out of curiosity?

    I know that theyre a compound movement but my front delts seem to get murdered on chest day. And my side delts get hit hard on side laterals. I am just wondering because I dont want them affecting my bench press strength etc. My split looks like this.

    • DAY 1: chest, triceps
    • DAY 2: back, biceps, forearms
    • DAY 3: rest
    • DAY 4: quads, hamstrings calves
    • DAY 5: delts, traps, abs
    • DAY 6: rest
    • DAY 7: rest

    I am jus thinking since I hit my front delts pretty hard with bench how necessarry front OH presses are. I could be way off. I am just thinking that more of side-delt movement might I might benefit more from. (i.e. - wide-grip upright rows) etc.

    MS

    How about doing delts on push day and traps on pull day and switching to a three day split. That will give you some extra recovery time.

  19. #18
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    I really enjoy the split that I am doing giving partial deads a day by themselves.

    MS

  20. #19
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    I might even replace OH presses with hang cleans...

    The initial pull of hang cleans is similar to wide-grip upright rows which directly stimulates the side-delts.

    What compound exercises are there that hit the side-delts hard just not OH presses?

    MS

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