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Thread: Round table discussion Proper macronutrient ratio for strength and lean muscle

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    Round table discussion Proper macronutrient ratio for strength and lean muscle

    If you have no idea what your macronutrient ratio is or what a macronutrient is then please don't chime in.. I've been using 30f 30c 40 for quite a while now and just drop the carbs slightly to create a caloric deficit on non training days.. I've also been keeping all my meals in a 8 hour period this was originally so I could eat more macros post workout. But as I experimented with it I noticed I was leaning out with the same caloric intake that I was spreading out all day. So I'm kind of using a I.F. Protocol also...
    I had been keeping my overall calories pretty low and this was working out well but after weeks and weeks of being on low cal your mind starts to go crazy. I'm going to try to keep my overall calories slightly higher and just throw in a few 30 minute sessions on non training days and a 10-15 minute very light cardio warmup on all my training days.
    Whats your nutritional strategy? If you have no idea then your missing out on the missing link in your training. Your nutrition is more important then the supplements or drugs you take .. Anyone who disagrees is wrong

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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Going off a ratio is a little backwards. As total calories change, more often than not so should the ratio. If you lock yourself into a set ratio regardless of how many calories youre eating then you're really stifling your room to tweak things.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 03-25-2012 at 12:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyspero View Post
    If you have no idea what your macronutrient ratio is or what a macronutrient is then please don't chime in.. I've been using 30f 30c 40 for quite a while now and just drop the carbs slightly to create a caloric deficit on non training days.. I've also been keeping all my meals in a 8 hour period this was originally so I could eat more macros post workout. But as I experimented with it I noticed I was leaning out with the same caloric intake that I was spreading out all day. So I'm kind of using a I.F. Protocol also...
    I had been keeping my overall calories pretty low and this was working out well but after weeks and weeks of being on low cal your mind starts to go crazy. I'm going to try to keep my overall calories slightly higher and just throw in a few 30 minute sessions on non training days and a 10-15 minute very light cardio warmup on all my training days.
    Whats your nutritional strategy? If you have no idea then your missing out on the missing link in your training. Your nutrition is more important then the supplements or drugs you take .. Anyone who disagrees is wrong
    I agree that nutrition is important, but it's not the be all and end all for MOST of the people who train. Very simple nutritional ideas can make worlds of difference without counting and calculating and making sure not to eat when the big hand is on the little hand...

    And, if you have good drugs, food don't matter much. Find a better drug dealer.

    If this works for you, then go with it. I would listen to Behemoth that thjings should and always will change, though. There's no perfect meal plan. It's always dynamic. You can have your basic strategy, but in 5 years, I bet it will look very different, except for a few basic constants. Those are the things that are important.

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    I agree that my strategy will change from year to year. I lift in a few different weight classes and only pay attention to my macro ratio while lifting in the lower 2 classes. I can basically eat whatever I want if I want to lift at 220 or 198 as long as my protien is high I don't notice much of a difference. But since I've dropped to 181 I hit some all time pr's and just generally feel better. I would rather lift the same at 181 and look lean then lift at 198 or 220 and eat whatever I want. Being "big" isn't really important to me at 30 like it was when I was 20. I'm always trying to gain muscle but bulking and then cutting. I'm not interested in that anymore
    Last edited by lennyspero; 03-25-2012 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyspero View Post
    When I didn't use any ratio my overall protein intake was way too high
    The ratio is rough on training days all my macros do fit into the ratio but on non training days when I cut carbs the ratio is actually very different It's probably more like 30f 20c 50 p on a non training day. I think the ratio is very important and most people consume too much protien and too little fat. By using a ratio at least you can punch I'm your caloric goal for the day and see what macro's you should be consuming to stay under that #. I know a lot of guys like to eat extra macro's and then do tons of cardio to create the caloric deficit to loose fat. I don't like to do much cardio
    I'd rather have high protein than high carbs. How can you have "too much" protein? That makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I also don't agree that people get too little fat. they get way too much bad fat and too little good fats, if that's what you meant?

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    If your taking a dump and it's like giving birth your probably taking in too much protein and not enough fat. Lol. A lot of people think they need 1.5 grams of protien per lb of bw. That's defiantly not what I have found works best for me. At a certain point if your not ingesting enough carbs your body will convert the protien into glucose. This is why I find macro ratio's helpful. Why bother taking in a huge excess of protien when it's going to be converted into glucose anyway. I'd rather eat more carbs and fats. Some people may disagree.

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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Very simple nutritional ideas can make worlds of difference without counting and calculating and making sure not to eat when the big hand is on the little hand...

    And, if you have good drugs, food don't matter much. Find a better drug dealer.
    That and that.

    Reading some of this crap about nutrient ratios on these boards is sort of like watching a monkey try to ride a motorcycle. At best it's a waste of time, at worst someone will end up hurting themselves. But that doesn't mean it's not hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    That and that.

    Reading some of this crap about nutrient ratios on these boards is sort of like watching a monkey try to ride a motorcycle. At best it's a waste of time, at worst someone will end up hurting themselves. But that doesn't mean it's not hilarious.
    Good, cuz that's what I really think. i just didn't want to be too much of a dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    i just didn't want to be too much of a dick.
    You feeling ok, man?
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    You feeling ok, man?
    I'm hanging in there. Thanks. HAHAHAHAHA!

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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I think this topic died before it started.
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    It didn't die I just respectfully disagree that macronutrient ratio's don't matter
    They defiantly matter less depending on your goals and if your on gear or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyspero View Post
    It didn't die I just respectfully disagree that macronutrient ratio's don't matter
    They defiantly matter less depending on your goals and if your on gear or not.

    no. they dont. gross macro numbers matter in terms of how many grams of f/p/c you are taking in. Sticking to a specific ratio doesn't matter one bit.

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    Senior Member ZAR-FIT's Avatar
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    len.. its definitely... not defiantly... i only say it cause you did it in two separate posts..

    and i agree with the majority of the board.. just make sure you consume a protein, carb, and possibly healthy fat with every meal.
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    You guys must be right....sorry for my grammar errors English is my 2 nd language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyspero View Post
    You guys must be right....sorry for my grammar errors English is my 2 nd language.
    no issues man. can't even tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyspero View Post
    It didn't die I just respectfully disagree that macronutrient ratio's don't matter
    They defiantly matter less depending on your goals and if your on gear or not.
    It's not that they don't matter, it's that they matter much LESS than other factors.

    And on top of that, the chances of correctly guessing what your body needs every day is pretty slim, especially when most recommendations out there are based on pure speculation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAR-FIT View Post
    and i agree with the majority of the board.. just make sure you consume a protein, carb, and possibly healthy fat with every meal.
    This, although I feel some fat and not carbs need to be part of every meal. All three have their places, though, and everyone responds to them a bit differently. If they didn't then we'd all be on the same diet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    This, although I feel some fat and not carbs need to be part of every meal. All three have their places, though, and everyone responds to them a bit differently. If they didn't then we'd all be on the same diet...
    I agree, carbs tend to be very "time-sensitive" from what I understand. If you eat carbs in conjunction with periods of time where you're active you'll see them have a more positive impact vs eating them when you're sitting around watching TV.

    IE: if you work out first thing in the morning, have some carbs pre-workout, then have some more within a few hours of your workout. If the rest of your day is fairly sedentary then you should probably go with high protein meals and minimal carbs.

    The ratio of macros really depends on how active you are imo. Someone who's only physical activity is lifting for an hour 3-4 days a week is probably better served by a high protein and lower carb ratio, where as someone who works at a physically demanding job or does a lot of cardio will probably have equal or higher carbs then protein.

    So basically, like everyone said, get your protein and the rest will fall into place because it's different for every person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rileigh View Post
    I agree, carbs tend to be very "time-sensitive" from what I understand. If you eat carbs in conjunction with periods of time where you're active you'll see them have a more positive impact vs eating them when you're sitting around watching TV.

    IE: if you work out first thing in the morning, have some carbs pre-workout, then have some more within a few hours of your workout. If the rest of your day is fairly sedentary then you should probably go with high protein meals and minimal carbs.

    The ratio of macros really depends on how active you are imo. Someone who's only physical activity is lifting for an hour 3-4 days a week is probably better served by a high protein and lower carb ratio, where as someone who works at a physically demanding job or does a lot of cardio will probably have equal or higher carbs then protein.

    So basically, like everyone said, get your protein and the rest will fall into place because it's different for every person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rileigh View Post
    I agree, carbs tend to be very "time-sensitive" from what I understand. If you eat carbs in conjunction with periods of time where you're active you'll see them have a more positive impact vs eating them when you're sitting around watching TV.
    I am no master of any sort of nutritional, and /or workout information. However...

    I believe carbs being time-sensitive isn't really true. It's like saying you have a fire pit going, and putting a bundle of twigs in it now will be more effective verses throwing them in later. Same result. Your body will call upon 'carb energy' when it's needed, using it whether it was consumed recently or stored up from last time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    I am no master of any sort of nutritional, and /or workout information. However...

    I believe carbs being time-sensitive isn't really true. It's like saying you have a fire pit going, and putting a bundle of twigs in it now will be more effective verses throwing them in later. Same result. Your body will call upon 'carb energy' when it's needed, using it whether it was consumed recently or stored up from last time.
    Exactly.

    The only exceptions to this are when you are very low in calories overall (and plan on being in a sloth-inducing deficit most of the day, but want just enough energy to get you through workouts), or you're engaged in strenuous, long term physical activity where you're depleting your glycogen and need glucose in the bloodstream.

    If you're roughly isocaloric or hypercaloric, you would be perfectly fine eating one massive meal right before bedtime as opposed to carefully portioning out those meals depending on hourly activity level. Your end body composition would be all but identical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    Exactly.

    The only exceptions to this are when you are very low in calories overall (and plan on being in a sloth-inducing deficit most of the day, but want just enough energy to get you through workouts), or you're engaged in strenuous, long term physical activity where you're depleting your glycogen and need glucose in the bloodstream.

    If you're roughly isocaloric or hypercaloric, you would be perfectly fine eating one massive meal right before bedtime as opposed to carefully portioning out those meals depending on hourly activity level. Your end body composition would be all but identical.
    Man I love when you post about diet. It always reassures me that my "laziness" in terms of nutrition is not hurting me . I am cutting right now and am simply just eating less and dictating my carb requirement by how my body is feeling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    I am no master of any sort of nutritional, and /or workout information. However...

    I believe carbs being time-sensitive isn't really true. It's like saying you have a fire pit going, and putting a bundle of twigs in it now will be more effective verses throwing them in later. Same result. Your body will call upon 'carb energy' when it's needed, using it whether it was consumed recently or stored up from last time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    Exactly.

    The only exceptions to this are when you are very low in calories overall (and plan on being in a sloth-inducing deficit most of the day, but want just enough energy to get you through workouts), or you're engaged in strenuous, long term physical activity where you're depleting your glycogen and need glucose in the bloodstream.

    If you're roughly isocaloric or hypercaloric, you would be perfectly fine eating one massive meal right before bedtime as opposed to carefully portioning out those meals depending on hourly activity level. Your end body composition would be all but identical.
    I apologize if I was mistaken on that that. Where I gathered that information was from an article that's actually posted on this site:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...timing-part-i/

    Maybe if it's incorrect it should be removed? Or I just misunderstood it?

    Would love some clarification here.

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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rileigh View Post
    I apologize if I was mistaken on that that. Where I gathered that information was from an article that's actually posted on this site:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...timing-part-i/

    Maybe if it's incorrect it should be removed? Or I just misunderstood it?

    Would love some clarification here.
    No, you understood it well. The problem is, the author says it right the first time: "Although this might be a bit of an oversimplification of a very complex topic"

    It is. My primary issue with this sort of writing is that it makes incorrect logical leaps from the biochemistry (and primary research) to actual real world application without controlling for real world variables.

    None of his claims are demonstrably false- "energy phase", "anabolic phase", etc. etc. are all reasonable labels for the various states the body finds itself in during the day based on stress, stimulus, activity level, etc. And nothing in his ratios (what amounts of what nutrients the body needs at various points) are technically incorrect either.

    The PRIMARY PROBLEM with the overall line of reasoning is that it fails to take into account that the body is not a machine capable of instant nutrient assimilation-many meals take upwards of 10-12 hours to finish their transit through the small intestine, and even the stomach will still contain undigested food matter 4-5 hours after a medium-sized meal. (Ever had too much to drink and puked at 2 in the morning, only to find chunks of the dinner you ate at 6? Yeah, I went there).

    Clinical studies along these lines tend to work with fasted subjects, and/or those on a carefully controlled diet (often hypo- or isocaloric). This is rarely the case for the majority of individuals. (Notice I did state that nutrient timing may be important for dieting individuals or those requiring replenishment mid-activity).

    There ARE some demonstrably false (or poorly backed) claims in those articles. For example:

    " In using this strategy, carbs are fed when they’ll best be converted into muscle glycogen and when they’ll best stimulate muscle growth and/or repair. If muscle gain is your goal, you’ll get more muscle per gram of carbohydrate ingested. If fat loss is your goal, you’ll get more muscle glycogen and a pronounced muscle sparing effect with fewer daily carbs ingested. And if athletic performance/recovery is your goal, your recovery will improve dramatically."

    More muscle per gram of carbohydrate ingested... This is simply a spurious claim. The body does not somehow end the process of adaptation simply because there is not an immediate source of carbohydrates in an optimal ratio. And please do tell me how a sugar drink post workout is in any way different from a sandwich pre-workout. Both cases will result in glucose in the bloodstream around the same time.

    Overall, these sorts of articles are like discussing the application of high performance spark plugs in your ten year old honda accord. Sure, they're perhaps optimal for the engine, but are they going to make a shit of difference given the numerous other factors affecting your time if you decide to take it around for a hot lap at a race track? Crap no. Unless you're a top level athlete who can simply not afford an extra calorie because you're loathe to carry around an extra ounce of weight, and you're on a carefully controlled daily diet with zero room for error (and you've accurately calculated transit time between mouth and colon by pulling timestamped markers out of your crap), then you're wasting your time, no matter what Dr. John Berardi insists.
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