The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Plateau on Squats

    Ill keep this short and sweet...I think. For those who dont already know me: Im training for football, and im currently on a DT variation type plan. (Strength and size.) Im eating at or just a little above maintenance right now. My squat has nearly stayed the same after almost a year. Maxing out at 435, that is. Im not too worried about it, but I figured hey, the more tips the better Ill be. I've tried a lot of accessory lifts; lunges, RDL, Front Squats, Box, etc, but im just hitting a flatline here.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

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  3. #2
    Moderator Brian Hopper's Avatar
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    What does your squat routine look like as far as rep/sets?
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    From november 2011 to April 2012, it went:

    Tues: ME day as shown in Chris Masons' DT Program on here
    Fri: DE day as shown in Chris Masons' DT Program on here

    But for the past month..believe it or not..it will seem unconventional but ive been doing this since its what got me from nothing to 435 from the span of October 2010 to August 2011:

    Tues: Back Squat- 2x8 2x4
    *Accessory work*
    Fri: DE of some squat variation.
    *Accessory work*

    I do this for 4 weeks than go to a 3x4 2x2 format
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 06-19-2012 at 01:15 AM.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  5. #4
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...nal&highlight=

    Thats a link to the journal I used to do. It doesnt cover my ENTIRE initial journey but its a good idea of what I did in that October 2010 to August 2011 span mentioned above.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  6. #5
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    Your program sucks. If I read it correctly, you're doing "DE" work for 3 sets of 10?????????? Impossible to be explosive for more than 5 reps. 2-3 is ideal.

    Get on a real program that is geared for getting stronger. 5/3/1 for football is as simple and effective as it gets. Bigger, Faster, Stronger is alright. I'm not a huge fan, but it's been around for years.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Your program sucks. If I read it correctly, you're doing "DE" work for 3 sets of 10?????????? Impossible to be explosive for more than 5 reps. 2-3 is ideal.

    Get on a real program that is geared for getting stronger. 5/3/1 for football is as simple and effective as it gets. Bigger, Faster, Stronger is alright. I'm not a huge fan, but it's been around for years.
    Read it again, I changed it. I did Mason's DT program. I put 3x10 for the sake of ease for no apparent reason other than I was tired. And which program are you referring too? DT training I did from from november 2011 to April 2012 or the one from linked above October 2010 to August 2011?
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Read it again, I changed it. I did Mason's DT program. I put 3x10 for the sake of ease for no apparent reason other than I was tired. And which program are you referring too? DT training I did from from november 2011 to April 2012 or the one from linked above October 2010 to August 2011?
    I don't need to read it again to know it's not good.

  9. #8
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    keep doing what you've done and you'll keep getting what you've got.....

    if it's a mental barrier I'd take some heavy overloads ( for you around 500) with reverse bands so you get used to handling the weight....

    It could be a weakness somewhere, if you load 450 right now and miss it, why would you miss? What part of the lift? what broke down first?

    but most importantly, get a real program or find a team that knows what they are doing and listen to them.
    Meet PR's: 1008-750-750 - 2464

    Gym PR's... don't count ... time to do another meet!

  10. #9
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    I don't need to read it again to know it's not good.
    Thats no help to me my man.

    So your saying Chris Masons' DT program on here sucks?

    Thanks for the feedback, I might consider the 5/3/1 and see if that jump starts me again.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 06-19-2012 at 01:41 AM.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  11. #10
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBarzeen View Post
    keep doing what you've done and you'll keep getting what you've got.....

    if it's a mental barrier I'd take some heavy overloads ( for you around 500) with reverse bands so you get used to handling the weight....

    It could be a weakness somewhere, if you load 450 right now and miss it, why would you miss? What part of the lift? what broke down first?

    but most importantly, get a real program or find a team that knows what they are doing and listen to them.
    Thanks for the input. I might record myself squatting and see what I can find. And im not to good with bands yet, care to elaborate on the use of reverse bands? Also, Im a little confused as to why everyone is taking attack to the DT program I was on. It roughly follows a Westside template..
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 06-19-2012 at 01:43 AM.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Thats no help to me my man.

    So your saying Chris Masons' DT program on here sucks?

    Thanks for the feedback, I might consider the 5/3/1 and see if that jump starts me again.
    Well, I gave you my advice in my previous post and you didn't take it. No need for me to waste my time on someone who doesn't listen.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Well, I gave you my advice in my previous post and you didn't take it. No need for me to waste my time on someone who doesn't listen.
    Not at all, actually. I was asking more questions to clarify things to get a better answer which you ignored numerous times and just went back too "your program sucks." I have no idea which part your even referring too my friend..thats why I am questioning you.

    Im here to learn. I never wont listen to people who I know can offer help like yourself. Please dont take this so personally.

    With that being said, how would you template the 5/3/1 plan?
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 06-19-2012 at 11:42 AM.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  14. #13
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Thanks for the input. I might record myself squatting and see what I can find. And im not to good with bands yet, care to elaborate on the use of reverse bands? Also, Im a little confused as to why everyone is taking attack to the DT program I was on. It roughly follows a Westside template..

    Reverse band squats are set up with a pair of bands choked off on the top of the power rack or monolift and hooked outside the plates on a squat bar. This lets you handle more weight at the top of the movement but as you descend and the bands stretch they progressively apply more deloading to the bar...... so if you load the bar to 500 with reverse bands the bar weight at the top might be 480, but at the bottom with the bands stretched out the bar weight might be only 380 depending on what bands you used....


    And from my perspective, the issue was less about the DT program and more about how you were following it. Either way, if you post a video the guys on here might be able to find a form or sticking point issue.

    For what it's worth, I teach middle school, I have all the patience in the world but most guys do not. Let me pass on a bit of advice given to me by Rudy Rosalles ( of Overkill) from when I first started lifting with him back at Frantz's gym. Take it for whatever it's worth to you. I had just hit a 740 squat in my first multiply contest and was handling 8+ in the gym with crap form and thought I was on top of the world.... this advice got me to a very legit ( as in Bev and Mike McDaniels judging) 880 squat in a year and a half, no drugs and using the same gear in contest..... ready?
    " If you shut the F*** up and listen you'll do great, but if you keep second guessing advice from guys way better than you then eventually those guys will stop trying to help you and you'll be on your own with your s**tty a** lifts wondering why guys keep blowing past you and you stay the same year after year"

    I still have to remind myself to shut up and listen... LOL
    Meet PR's: 1008-750-750 - 2464

    Gym PR's... don't count ... time to do another meet!

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Not at all, actually. I was asking more questions to clarify things to get a better answer which you ignored numerous times and just went back too "your program sucks." I have no idea which part your even referring too my friend..thats why I am questioning you.

    Im here to learn. I never wont listen to people who I know can offer help like yourself. Please dont take this so personally.

    With that being said, how would you template the 5/3/1 plan?
    Buy the book.

    I told you in my first response to do 5/3/1. I already answered your question. I ignored nothing. My answer was direct and to the point.
    Last edited by RhodeHouse; 06-19-2012 at 01:55 PM.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBarzeen View Post
    Reverse band squats are set up with a pair of bands choked off on the top of the power rack or monolift and hooked outside the plates on a squat bar. This lets you handle more weight at the top of the movement but as you descend and the bands stretch they progressively apply more deloading to the bar...... so if you load the bar to 500 with reverse bands the bar weight at the top might be 480, but at the bottom with the bands stretched out the bar weight might be only 380 depending on what bands you used....


    And from my perspective, the issue was less about the DT program and more about how you were following it. Either way, if you post a video the guys on here might be able to find a form or sticking point issue.

    For what it's worth, I teach middle school, I have all the patience in the world but most guys do not. Let me pass on a bit of advice given to me by Rudy Rosalles ( of Overkill) from when I first started lifting with him back at Frantz's gym. Take it for whatever it's worth to you. I had just hit a 740 squat in my first multiply contest and was handling 8+ in the gym with crap form and thought I was on top of the world.... this advice got me to a very legit ( as in Bev and Mike McDaniels judging) 880 squat in a year and a half, no drugs and using the same gear in contest..... ready?
    " If you shut the F*** up and listen you'll do great, but if you keep second guessing advice from guys way better than you then eventually those guys will stop trying to help you and you'll be on your own with your s**tty a** lifts wondering why guys keep blowing past you and you stay the same year after year"

    I still have to remind myself to shut up and listen... LOL
    Thank you for the help, I appreciate it. And I see what you mean, I think it was more or less me trying to get clear answers. Ill take the high road and listen, even if im not a fan of the approach. It's not that big of a deal, Im going to try a few things and see if my squat improves, because, after all, thats why im currently here. Thanks again.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 06-19-2012 at 02:05 PM.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  17. #16
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Buy the book.

    I told you in my first response to do 5/3/1. I already answered your question. I ignored nothing. My answer was direct and to the point.
    And I sincerely appreciate that. Really. I was more or less confused as to what you think sucked because your original statement was based off of an incorrect type by me. I fixed that and told you to re-read it, and thus causing this misunderstanding. Either way, im over it, im just trying to get better. Thank you for the continuous feedback. Ill buy the book.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

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