The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    OP, 5/3/1 with singles is a solid program. Run it consistently and you should see solid gains
    Will definitely be giving it a go. Thanks brother!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    If you would do the madcow 5x5 intermediate routine and use just 355 for your 5 rep squat max, 210 for your 5 rep bench max, and 395 for your 5 rep dead max; by week 9 you could be squatting 400 for 5, benching 240 for 5, and deadlifting 445 for 5. You have the potential to progress quickly still and personally I would utilize a program which would allow for that before moving on to monthly progression like the 5/3/1 or 3/5/1. Not to say it isn't an outstanding template to follow, but it would seem to make sense to milk potential linear gains for as long as possible.
    Thanks for posting. I've actually began re-running Stronglifts 5x5 for the time-being. About two months ago I was doing some Rack Lockouts (below knee) for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs, during my last set, I popped my shoulder resulting in some medium pain. At the time of the injury, I decided to take a month and a half off to fully recover as I heard shoulder injuries are not a joke and can lead to more serious problems if not taken proper care of. I began lifting again about a week or so ago with SL 5x5. Started with an empty bar and progressing back slowly. I feel fully recovered now and everything seems to be moving along.

    However, instead of making 5lb increments to each lift, since I felt was very low, every training day, I have instead decided to add; 20lbs to Squats, 40lbs to DLs, 10lbs to Bench and OHP. Once I start nearing my old 5rm or when I start failing, that is when I will switch over to 5/3/1. Do you believe that is a good idea before moving to 5/3/1, or do you think even after I start nearing my 5rm I should keep with linear progression but move into smaller increments until I am no longer making gains?

  3. #28
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    Thanks for posting. I've actually began re-running Stronglifts 5x5 for the time-being. About two months ago I was doing some Rack Lockouts (below knee) for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs, during my last set, I popped my shoulder resulting in some medium pain. At the time of the injury, I decided to take a month and a half off to fully recover as I heard shoulder injuries are not a joke and can lead to more serious problems if not taken proper care of. I began lifting again about a week or so ago with SL 5x5. Started with an empty bar and progressing back slowly. I feel fully recovered now and everything seems to be moving along.

    However, instead of making 5lb increments to each lift, since I felt was very low, every training day, I have instead decided to add; 20lbs to Squats, 40lbs to DLs, 10lbs to Bench and OHP. Once I start nearing my old 5rm or when I start failing, that is when I will switch over to 5/3/1. Do you believe that is a good idea before moving to 5/3/1, or do you think even after I start nearing my 5rm I should keep with linear progression but move into smaller increments until I am no longer making gains?
    Sounds like you falling into the same trap again. How long do you honestly think you will be able to keep up a 40lb increase in deadlifts? Its not just about lifting a certain weight, its about giving the body time to grow and progress. You don't have to be lifting at your absolute max to get stronger, you just have to be consistently progressing, which seems to be your problem.

    You have to stop thinking about increases "feeling to low" or you will get no where. Whatever program you pick, do it as it was intended.
    Best Gym Lifts:
    475 - 315 - 585

    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    Sounds like you falling into the same trap again. How long do you honestly think you will be able to keep up a 40lb increase in deadlifts? Its not just about lifting a certain weight, its about giving the body time to grow and progress. You don't have to be lifting at your absolute max to get stronger, you just have to be consistently progressing, which seems to be your problem.

    You have to stop thinking about increases "feeling to low" or you will get no where. Whatever program you pick, do it as it was intended.
    I was planning on keeping the 40lb increases till I reached near my previous 5rm, than switching over to smaller increments (5lbs). This is where strength training confuses me. For example, what I don't understand is where is the difference from me starting Madcow 5x5 and using 355 of my 5 rep squat max, 210 of my 5 rep bench max, and 395 of my 5 rep dead max as you insisted above, to me starting my way with an empty bar and working relatively quicker to 355 of my 5 rep squat max, 210 of my 5 rep bench max, and 395 of my 5 rep dead max where I will than basically begin what you insisted I do to begin with only I progressed to that stage as opposed to starting at those numbers?

    This is where I get so confused. Is it common for strength athletes to hit the restart switch and start over with an empty bar and make 5lb increments after they have already hit a 1,600lb total (for example)? Or is that just counter-productive?

    Sorry for all the questions, this is where I am always stumped on what to do with my training, hit the restart switch or progressive overload?

  5. #30
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    I was planning on keeping the 40lb increases till I reached near my previous 5rm, than switching over to smaller increments (5lbs). This is where strength training confuses me. For example, what I don't understand is where is the difference from me starting Madcow 5x5 and using 355 of my 5 rep squat max, 210 of my 5 rep bench max, and 395 of my 5 rep dead max as you insisted above, to me starting my way with an empty bar and working relatively quicker to 355 of my 5 rep squat max, 210 of my 5 rep bench max, and 395 of my 5 rep dead max where I will than basically begin what you insisted I do to begin with only I progressed to that stage as opposed to starting at those numbers?

    This is where I get so confused. Is it common for strength athletes to hit the restart switch and start over with an empty bar and make 5lb increments after they have already hit a 1,600lb total (for example)? Or is that just counter-productive?

    Sorry for all the questions, this is where I am always stumped on what to do with my training, hit the restart switch or progressive overload?
    I didn't suggest Madcow, someone else did.

    And that is counter productive, you can take some weight of the bar (a 10-15% decrease) but taking everything off not only makes no sense, but you will loose strength.

    You have some decent numbers but it sounds like you still have a lot to grasp with training in general, I'd pick a program, and stick to it to a T. If you get a great idea about how to change it to make it better, don't.
    Best Gym Lifts:
    475 - 315 - 585

    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

  6. #31
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    You simply just use accurate numbers based on current 5RMs then begin the 5x5 as written. There is a reason it's detailed out the way it is and why you start with a certain % of your 5RM.

    5/3/1 is similar too. Wendler states to use a "training max" to allow yourself time to build volume through your current 1RMs. When you plateau, you simply reset the training maxes based on a recent AMRAP or just a percentage deduction.

    You take one step back to take a few forward. You don't go back to crawling if you're trying to walk.
    Last edited by BloodandThunder; 08-08-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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  7. #32
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    You simply just use accurate numbers based on current 5RMs then begin the 5x5 as written. There is a reason it's detailed out the way it is and why you start with a certain % of your 5RM.

    5/3/1 is similar too. Wendler states to use a "training max" to allow yourself time to build volume through your current 1RMs. When you plateau, you simply reset the training maxes based on a recent AMRAP or just a percentage deduction.

    You take one step back to take a few forward. You don't go back to crawling if you're trying to walk.
    Well said.
    Best Gym Lifts:
    475 - 315 - 585

    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    I didn't suggest Madcow, someone else did.

    And that is counter productive, you can take some weight of the bar (a 10-15% decrease) but taking everything off not only makes no sense, but you will loose strength.

    You have some decent numbers but it sounds like you still have a lot to grasp with training in general, I'd pick a program, and stick to it to a T. If you get a great idea about how to change it to make it better, don't.
    I think I'm just thinking to much into specialization and different things that I'm clearly not at the level for yet. I just need to keep my programming simple and as you stated 'stick to it to a T'.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    You simply just use accurate numbers based on current 5RMs then begin the 5x5 as written. There is a reason it's detailed out the way it is and why you start with a certain % of your 5RM.

    5/3/1 is similar too. Wendler states to use a "training max" to allow yourself time to build volume through your current 1RMs. When you plateau, you simply reset the training maxes based on a recent AMRAP or just a percentage deduction.

    You take one step back to take a few forward. You don't go back to crawling if you're trying to walk.
    I thought it was a little ridiculous for me to start with an empty bar. I'm going to start simple, linear program, with a weight I can easily do for 5x5 and move forward from there. Once I am no longer making progress that is when I will move to 5/3/1.

  10. #35
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    Can I get some opinions from you guys. The week I injured my shoulder, I was hitting parallel box squats, 2 sets of 2 reps at 585lbs and 5 sets of 7 reps for 495lbs (45 sec rest between sets). I was also hitting DL rack lockouts (below the knee), as stated earlier, for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs (45 sec rest between sets).

    Now, are my gym totals relative to my assistance work? Or the fact that I was, for example, hitting box squats at parallel for 2 reps at 585lbs and only max squatting 370lbs really off? Just seems like a huge jump in difference between the two movements when all I'm doing is adding in a bench so I can sit down (simply put).

  11. #36
    Dr. Subtotal
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    First of all, your "total" is just the sum of your 1RM's.

    5 x 7 with 45 sec rest between sets? I'd have to call the paramedics if I used something like 80%+ of my max lol

    Those are most likely partial movements (especially the rack pulls below knees). Chances are, and don't take this personally, is that you were not doing either correctly for training purposes or you're not describing them accurately.
    Last edited by BloodandThunder; 08-08-2012 at 11:54 AM.
    Trample the weak, hurdle the dead
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132318

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    First of all, your "total" is just the sum of your 1RM's.

    5 x 7 with 45 sec rest between sets?
    Since I never practiced or tested my 1rm I am simply using the heaviest weight I have lifted to date, that being 370lbs squat for 5 reps. I am completely aware that a total is the sum of your 1rm for the Squat, Bench and DL. Again, the numbers I am using are just the highest amount in terms of weight I have lifted to date, I know they are not 1rm nor competition totals, just what I have succeeded in lifting. Since I never tested my 1rm, I am using what I KNOW I have lifted as my 'total' even if its not my 1rm. If I can lift 370 for 5 than I can surely do it for 1.

    What do you mean '5 x 7 with 45 sec rest between sets?'

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    First of all, your "total" is just the sum of your 1RM's.

    5 x 7 with 45 sec rest between sets? I'd have to call the paramedics if I used something like 80%+ of my max lol

    Those are most likely partial movements (especially the rack pulls below knees). Chances are, and don't take this personally, is that you were not doing either correctly for training purposes or you're not describing them accurately.
    They were partial movements, hence box squat and DL rack lockouts. I am aware of that. What I am asking is if it is normal to have a gap that big between squats (370lbs) and parallel box squats (585lbs)?

  14. #39
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    Can I get some opinions from you guys. The week I injured my shoulder, I was hitting parallel box squats, 2 sets of 2 reps at 585lbs and 5 sets of 7 reps for 495lbs (45 sec rest between sets). I was also hitting DL rack lockouts (below the knee), as stated earlier, for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs (45 sec rest between sets).

    Now, are my gym totals relative to my assistance work? Or the fact that I was, for example, hitting box squats at parallel for 2 reps at 585lbs and only max squatting 370lbs really off? Just seems like a huge jump in difference between the two movements when all I'm doing is adding in a bench so I can sit down (simply put).
    Yes, thats really off, most likely what you are thinking is parallel is not parallel, and what you are thinking is ass to grass is not really ass to grass.

    I'll make it easy for you to take your maxes, use Wendlers formula to get an idea, weight * reps * .0333 + weight, so for Squats
    370x5x.0333 + 370 = 435. Bench 225x3x.0333+225=250, 405x6x.0333+405=490.

    So 435 squat max, 250 bench max, 490 deadlift max, take 10lbs off each to be safe, and start there.
    Best Gym Lifts:
    475 - 315 - 585

    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    Yes, thats really off, most likely what you are thinking is parallel is not parallel, and what you are thinking is ass to grass is not really ass to grass.

    I'll make it easy for you to take your maxes, use Wendlers formula to get an idea, weight * reps * .0333 + weight, so for Squats
    370x5x.0333 + 370 = 435. Bench 225x3x.0333+225=250, 405x6x.0333+405=490.

    So 435 squat max, 250 bench max, 490 deadlift max, take 10lbs off each to be safe, and start there.
    For parallel, I used the shortest bench my gym has, which sat my knees at a 90% angel (parallel). When I squat its either ATG or pretty darn close. I've had numerous people ask me why I squat so low and how. Simply, because I felt using the bottom portion of the squat as a 'spring' helped in some way by exploding back up past parallel. Guess I was wrong in thinking that and will be going forward squatting just to parallel and see where it goes from there.

    Personally, what I'm thinking is that I have a mental issue 'believing' I can lift whatever it is I am hitting. When I am doing a partial movement (rack lockouts/parallel box squats) I feel 'comfortable' and don't even think about failing. When I am under the bar or about to lift full ROM that's when my mind starts racing. I seriously think its a mental issue, a mind game if you will. I think I need to start getting in the right mindset. How? I have no idea.

    BTW thanks for the calculations!

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