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  1. #1
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    Need help raising my total!

    Hey guys (and gals), new to the forum and am pretty excited about learning and absorbing all I can from everyone!

    I am currently looking to start competing in Powerlifting, but I am only at a 1,000lbs total at 225lbs, and feel I have so much room for improvements. I am planning on using Sheiko in the next couple of months to further my total. Do you believe this would be ideal? Can I hear some opinions/recommendations from some of the guys/gals who have been where I am and what you believe helped and is ideal for someone like me at 225 with only a 1000lb total?

    I've been stuck at my current state for awhile (about a year or more). I know the lack of commitment to one system on my part probably plays a huge roll, but I find myself always and constantly plateauing every time I reach near my maxes, which is the reason for me switching up programs.

    Just wondering what has worked for some of you, who at one time or another, had this issue?

    My current goals are to reach a 1,500lb total.

    Squat = 370lbs (5 reps ass-to-the-grass)
    Bench = 225lbs (3 reps, hit 275lbs before and somehow lost 50lbs on my bench)
    DL = 405 (6 reps, conventional stance, never really trained sumo, do you prefer sumo over conventional?)

    Would a program, like Sheiko, that uses percentages based off maxes be ideal for me, or do you think a progressive overload/linear progression system to be better at my current stat?

    Any help would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance and happy to finally be part of the forums!
    5'9" 225lbs (23 y/o)

    370lb Squat (5 reps)
    225lb Bench (3 reps)
    405lb Deadlift (6 reps)

    1000lb Total (Raw)

  2. #2
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    You want to add 500 lbs to your total? I would start with smaller goals. Since you havent done a meet yet you technically don't have a total yet. Do a meet first then start from there.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply. By adding 500lbs I mean that as a long term goal. When I discuss my total, I am simply referring to my gym total. I have been looking for meets in my area, very rare when one actually comes up. We get about two a year if that, which is unfortunate because I heard competing in itself is half the battle. I'm definitely keeping an eye open and checking regularly for events that come up. Thanks again for the reply! Much appreciated!
    5'9" 225lbs (23 y/o)

    370lb Squat (5 reps)
    225lb Bench (3 reps)
    405lb Deadlift (6 reps)

    1000lb Total (Raw)

  4. #4
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    I would start 5/3/1, and stay on it, and not worry about maxes for at least 6 months. If you have been stuck at your current total for over a year you have a mental issue with progress and dedication. I don't mean to put it that harsh, but its the truth.

    The best thing you can learn as a serious lifter is to get rid of every sense of an ego, and progress slowly. If you bench 275 and want to bench 315, you have to bench 285 first. Stop focusing on your max right now, do 5/3/1, don't even think of attempting a max for at least 3 months. I guarantee you'll get a max then.

    Once I learned to ditch an ego, I made consistent small progress. A year ago I maxed 425 on my deadlift, a day ago I hit 535. Keep it small, consistent, and you'll do fine.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    I would start 5/3/1, and stay on it, and not worry about maxes for at least 6 months. If you have been stuck at your current total for over a year you have a mental issue with progress and dedication. I don't mean to put it that harsh, but its the truth.

    The best thing you can learn as a serious lifter is to get rid of every sense of an ego, and progress slowly. If you bench 275 and want to bench 315, you have to bench 285 first. Stop focusing on your max right now, do 5/3/1, don't even think of attempting a max for at least 3 months. I guarantee you'll get a max then.

    Once I learned to ditch an ego, I made consistent small progress. A year ago I maxed 425 on my deadlift, a day ago I hit 535. Keep it small, consistent, and you'll do fine.
    Great post.

    And stop the ass to grass bullshit. Just break parallel. You don't get brownie points for squatting that deep. 1" below or 5" below is still only 3 white lights.

    I agree on 5/3/1. Sheiko is shit. This journey is decades in the making. If you expect crazy progress with lackluster effort, you're in the wrong game.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Great post.

    And stop the ass to grass bullshit. Just break parallel. You don't get brownie points for squatting that deep. 1" below or 5" below is still only 3 white lights.

    I agree on 5/3/1. Sheiko is shit. This journey is decades in the making. If you expect crazy progress with lackluster effort, you're in the wrong game.

    Good luck.
    Matt, completely agree on everything, but...why do you think Sheiko-style programming is shit?

  7. #7
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    saying sheiko is shit is a pretty big generalization and lots of people have success with it. There isnt one way to train and if it works for you then it works. No one is gonna argue 531 is a good program and I would recommend it to anyone. My numbers have been stuck for a long and I am stronger than ever at a lower bw after doing sheiko.

    Your template looks fine. Just start light and make sure your technique is your priority. The volume of 5x10 with 50-60% is higher than the volume of a sheiko workout. Doing 5x10 with a light weight is a good way to practice good technique, especially when you get fatigued and can also build a lot of muscle. Sheiko is mostly 3's,2's and at most a few sets of 6.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by kingns; 08-06-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcorock View Post
    Matt, completely agree on everything, but...why do you think Sheiko-style programming is shit?
    It just doesn't make sense to me. I get what it's trying to accomplish, but I don't like how it goes about it.

    Plus, I don't see anyone worth a shit using it as a program. Does it work? I guess so. Most of the best use a variation of Westside. There are many ways to train, I just think Sheiko sucks.

  9. #9
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    Well, Sheiko is one of the most medalled coach ever in the IPF, so he's probably doing it right (at least in IPF-style lifting): Fedosienko, Belayev, Sivokon, in general most of the Russians/eastern Europe guys train with Sheiko principles, which are basically derived from Oly lifting (old Boris used to be Russia's WL jr team coach).
    Wade Hooper also comes to mind.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    It just doesn't make sense to me. I get what it's trying to accomplish, but I don't like how it goes about it.

    Plus, I don't see anyone worth a shit using it as a program. Does it work? I guess so. Most of the best use a variation of Westside. There are many ways to train, I just think Sheiko sucks.
    Al Caslow and Wade Hooper are two big American names that use Sheiko/Sheiko elements in their training. Mike Tuscherer also pulls heavily from it with his RTS system. Eric Talmant had the number one DL at 165 with it as well. More than one way to skin a cat, it may not be best for many, but volume accumulation training has proven to be effective in producing countless World champions. You may obviously care less about the IPF but guys like Baleyev, Europeans, and Russians who dominate mostly use volume-based training around 70-85% like Sheiko.

    It's not popular for multi-ply for a reason since multi-ply and Westside are pretty much so inter-twined as the need for high-intensities is greater.
    Last edited by BloodandThunder; 08-07-2012 at 08:08 AM.
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  11. #11
    phil 4:13 Bako Lifter's Avatar
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    Your "total" is closer to 1,100. A total is the sum of your 1RM in each lift, not 3 and 5RMs.

    5/3/1 would be a good program for the long haul but you won't be hitting any new maxes for quite a while.

    If it were me I'd give sheiko a go, or a similar program. I think if you want something enough you don't need to be patient, put in the work and go get it.

  12. #12
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    Welcome to the board....

    It sounds like you are flailing a bit trying to structure your training.... somehow missing on max weights just means that either you are having a mental breakdown or a form problem when you go heavy.... I'm willing to bet that you are capable of much more just at your current strength levels.

    The best thing you could possibly do for your self is to go out and find a meet close to home and just jump in it for fun. At that meet you'll establish a total ( gym totals are not totals) but more importantly, you'll meet lifters in your area that can help you....

    Finding a team to train with will make all the difference in the world..... not just a few good buddies to spot, but a real, established team. Then just follow what ever training program they run for a year or two.

    If you are dead set on training however you are now I'd agree with the above poster on running 5/3/1, but it might not hurt to spend a little more time just working singles. It sounds like you aren't comfortable with a max effort yet and you could use that work.


    Good luck either way.
    Meet PR's: 1008-750-750 - 2464

    Gym PR's... don't count ... time to do another meet!

  13. #13
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    You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the input. I do agree I have somewhat of a mental issue with progression and setting realistic goals. As stated above, I need to get rid of the ego and be patient. Most definitely going to work on that first.

    The reason behind me wanting to run Sheiko, as opposed to 5/3/1 (which I have ran in the past), is the high volume. I read from numerous lifters that since Sheiko is in such high volume, you really get the opportunity to practice and learn the main lifts with proper form.

    I definitely need to structure my training and stick with it! The second there is a meet in or around my area I will definitely be jumping at it and competing.

    The only problem with my area is that there aren't very many Powerlifters or strength athletes. The fact that there isn't a high demand for strength coaches means the ones that do offer Powerlifting and strength training charge an arm and a leg. One place was asking $82-$89 for a 1hr session which is ridiculous (or is that average?).

    theBarzeen when you say 'spend a little more time just working singles' do you mean I should take a few months or so and work on my single maxes?

    Once again, thank you all for your assistance, you guys are already helping me tremendously.

  14. #14
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    theBarzeen when you say 'spend a little more time just working singles' do you mean I should take a few months or so and work on my single maxes?

    Once again, thank you all for your assistance, you guys are already helping me tremendously.
    I thought the same thing until I went to a meet and realized that where I live is a freaking mecca for powerlifting, you'll be surprised how many gyms are around once they all come out for a meet.

    As for working singles, I mean start where you feel comfortable with, say, a triple and do several sets around there of singles.
    I know a good lifter in the area who has pulled 605 for 10 reps but hasn't hit 650 in a meet because he isn't used to straining and pulling heavy. I wouldn't drop everything to just work on this, but you could use the medium week of a three week wave or even a speed day to work singles. For example, I'm just coming back from a vacation so I don't want to get under max weights yet, but I need the work. My max deadlift is somewhere in the mid to upper 700's right now so I worked to my planned opener this fall of 705 ( deloaded with a green reverse band just hung from a pin in the rack) for 5 sets of one rep. I could pull this for 3-5 reps in one set, but my form would break down and the speed would suffer. So 5 sets of 1 with 30 seconds between sets.

    Either way, good luck.
    Meet PR's: 1008-750-750 - 2464

    Gym PR's... don't count ... time to do another meet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by theBarzeen View Post
    I thought the same thing until I went to a meet and realized that where I live is a freaking mecca for powerlifting, you'll be surprised how many gyms are around once they all come out for a meet.

    As for working singles, I mean start where you feel comfortable with, say, a triple and do several sets around there of singles.
    I know a good lifter in the area who has pulled 605 for 10 reps but hasn't hit 650 in a meet because he isn't used to straining and pulling heavy. I wouldn't drop everything to just work on this, but you could use the medium week of a three week wave or even a speed day to work singles. For example, I'm just coming back from a vacation so I don't want to get under max weights yet, but I need the work. My max deadlift is somewhere in the mid to upper 700's right now so I worked to my planned opener this fall of 705 ( deloaded with a green reverse band just hung from a pin in the rack) for 5 sets of one rep. I could pull this for 3-5 reps in one set, but my form would break down and the speed would suffer. So 5 sets of 1 with 30 seconds between sets.

    Either way, good luck.
    Thanks for all your input! Love the idea of working singles into a speed/medium day. In all honesty, I never really devoted or worked on singles, other than the third week of 5/3/1 for one set. I believe working singles once every week or so will play a huge role in bettering my technique and lifts and allow me to get better accustomed to doing them.

    After some thought, I figure I will structure my weeks like so; Monday/Tueday for 5/3/1, Wednesday for singles (5x1, 30 sec rest, for S, BP, DL and perhaps OHP), Thursday/Friday for 5/3/1, Saturday/Sunday rest. Will leave my deload week solely to 5/3/1 with no added practice or training.

    I am planning to use my 3rm (85%) of the third week of 5/3/1 as my singles work for the month.

    Do you believe this to be a good idea?

    Thanks again!

  16. #16
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    Thanks for all your input! Love the idea of working singles into a speed/medium day. In all honesty, I never really devoted or worked on singles, other than the third week of 5/3/1 for one set. I believe working singles once every week or so will play a huge role in bettering my technique and lifts and allow me to get better accustomed to doing them.

    After some thought, I figure I will structure my weeks like so; Monday/Tueday for 5/3/1, Wednesday for singles (5x1, 30 sec rest, for S, BP, DL and perhaps OHP), Thursday/Friday for 5/3/1, Saturday/Sunday rest. Will leave my deload week solely to 5/3/1 with no added practice or training.

    I am planning to use my 3rm (85%) of the third week of 5/3/1 as my singles work for the month.

    Do you believe this to be a good idea?

    Thanks again!
    If you want to put focus on singles I'd suggest doing 5/3/1 Powerlifting template, its what I am currently using. That way you have a solid base that is still progressing (the 5/3/1 part) but have some room to work in singles as well, your current setup will have you doing max singles the same week you are doing 5/3/1, its too much.

    You definitely need more single work, but given what you have said about being stuck in the same spot for a year I really think the best thing for you is to take a good 3 months doing 5/3/1 without worrying about a max. Get in the grove and learn how to progress properly, then start adding in some singles if you want. You've got nothing but time, 9 months of slow steady progress beats 1 month of great progress and 8 of stalling, which seems to be your issue.
    Best Gym Lifts:
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    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    If you want to put focus on singles I'd suggest doing 5/3/1 Powerlifting template, its what I am currently using. That way you have a solid base that is still progressing (the 5/3/1 part) but have some room to work in singles as well, your current setup will have you doing max singles the same week you are doing 5/3/1, its too much.

    You definitely need more single work, but given what you have said about being stuck in the same spot for a year I really think the best thing for you is to take a good 3 months doing 5/3/1 without worrying about a max. Get in the grove and learn how to progress properly, then start adding in some singles if you want. You've got nothing but time, 9 months of slow steady progress beats 1 month of great progress and 8 of stalling, which seems to be your issue.
    I knew Wendler had another version of 5/3/1 but marketed 'For Powerlifting.' Always thought the original 5/3/1 program was one of the best strength and mass programs available, which fell perfectly into Powerlifting without the need for a different version. Will be giving 5/3/1 For Powerlifting a read in the next couple of days to see how it differs from the original. Knowledge is power.

    I will definitely take your advice on making some good solid slow gains for a good 3 months before incorporating the singles work that I plan on doing. Thanks for the help!

  18. #18
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    5/3/1 is an excellent program. If your form is good you can hit a comp anytime you want. I use 5/3/1 with my wife and she had a very successful meet with it. All you have to do is take your 1+ weight from week 3 as an opener. It will be nice and easy, then you assess from there for your second attempts.


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  19. #19
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    I'm going to start recording myself when I train, for my own use, so I can see how my form looks, and to ensure I am hitting the main lifts correctly. I will be going back on 5/3/1 (Boring But Big template). I like the Boring But Big template because I feel it really gives me the opportunity to practice the main lifts. Going to take my time going forward and appreciate every inch of progress I make.

    vdizenzo thats awesome your wife trains with you! Thanks for the tip about using my 1+ as an opener and then judging how I feel for my 2nd attempt.

  20. #20
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    This is roughly what my 5/3/1 Boring But Big template looks like. Please feel free to critique and let me know if I should change anything.

    DAY 1:
    Military Press:
    Week 1: 5,5,5+ Week 2: 3,3,3+ Week 3: 5,3,1+ Week 4: Deload
    Military Press 30-60% Max 5x10 (Pyramid DOWN)
    Chins/Pulls (Between assistance MP Sets, not working sets)
    Barbell Incline Press 5x10
    Chins/Pulls (Between Incline Sets)

    DAY 2
    Deadlift
    Week 1: 5,5,5+ Week 2: 3,3,3+ Week 3: 5,3,1+ Week 4: Deload
    Deadlift 30-60% Max 5x10 (Pyramid DOWN)
    Dips (Between assistance DL Sets, not working sets)
    Hanging Leg Raises 5x15
    Dips (Between Hanging Leg Raise Sets)

    DAY 3
    Bench Press
    Week 1: 5,5,5+ Week 2: 3,3,3+ Week 3: 5,3,1+ Week 4: Deload
    Bench Press 30-60% Max 5x10 (Pyramid DOWN)
    Chins/Pulls (Between assistance Bench Sets, not working sets)
    Barbell Rows, 1-2 warm-up sets of 10reps, 2x20-40
    Chins/Pulls (Between BB Row Sets)

    DAY 4
    Squat
    Week 1: 5,5,5+ Week 2: 3,3,3+ Week 3: 5,3,1+ Week 4: Deload
    Squat 30-60% Max 5x10 (Pyramid DOWN)
    Dips (Between assistance Squat Sets, not working sets)
    Hip Thrusts 5x10
    Dips (Between Hip Thrust Sets)

  21. #21
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    Sounds solid..... but the only way to see if it works for you is to run it for a few months and see how you progress.... everyone is different.

    Good luck.
    Meet PR's: 1008-750-750 - 2464

    Gym PR's... don't count ... time to do another meet!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBarzeen View Post
    Sounds solid..... but the only way to see if it works for you is to run it for a few months and see how you progress.... everyone is different.

    Good luck.
    Thanks brother! Crazy how something as simple as adding some singles work can either make or break you in the long run. Guess time will tell.

  23. #23
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    If you would do the madcow 5x5 intermediate routine and use just 355 for your 5 rep squat max, 210 for your 5 rep bench max, and 395 for your 5 rep dead max; by week 9 you could be squatting 400 for 5, benching 240 for 5, and deadlifting 445 for 5. You have the potential to progress quickly still and personally I would utilize a program which would allow for that before moving on to monthly progression like the 5/3/1 or 3/5/1. Not to say it isn't an outstanding template to follow, but it would seem to make sense to milk potential linear gains for as long as possible.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    If you would do the madcow 5x5 intermediate routine and use just 355 for your 5 rep squat max, 210 for your 5 rep bench max, and 395 for your 5 rep dead max; by week 9 you could be squatting 400 for 5, benching 240 for 5, and deadlifting 445 for 5. You have the potential to progress quickly still and personally I would utilize a program which would allow for that before moving on to monthly progression like the 5/3/1 or 3/5/1. Not to say it isn't an outstanding template to follow, but it would seem to make sense to milk potential linear gains for as long as possible.
    Thanks for posting. I've actually began re-running Stronglifts 5x5 for the time-being. About two months ago I was doing some Rack Lockouts (below knee) for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs, during my last set, I popped my shoulder resulting in some medium pain. At the time of the injury, I decided to take a month and a half off to fully recover as I heard shoulder injuries are not a joke and can lead to more serious problems if not taken proper care of. I began lifting again about a week or so ago with SL 5x5. Started with an empty bar and progressing back slowly. I feel fully recovered now and everything seems to be moving along.

    However, instead of making 5lb increments to each lift, since I felt was very low, every training day, I have instead decided to add; 20lbs to Squats, 40lbs to DLs, 10lbs to Bench and OHP. Once I start nearing my old 5rm or when I start failing, that is when I will switch over to 5/3/1. Do you believe that is a good idea before moving to 5/3/1, or do you think even after I start nearing my 5rm I should keep with linear progression but move into smaller increments until I am no longer making gains?

  25. #25
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Factory View Post
    Thanks for posting. I've actually began re-running Stronglifts 5x5 for the time-being. About two months ago I was doing some Rack Lockouts (below knee) for 5 sets of 7 at 550lbs, during my last set, I popped my shoulder resulting in some medium pain. At the time of the injury, I decided to take a month and a half off to fully recover as I heard shoulder injuries are not a joke and can lead to more serious problems if not taken proper care of. I began lifting again about a week or so ago with SL 5x5. Started with an empty bar and progressing back slowly. I feel fully recovered now and everything seems to be moving along.

    However, instead of making 5lb increments to each lift, since I felt was very low, every training day, I have instead decided to add; 20lbs to Squats, 40lbs to DLs, 10lbs to Bench and OHP. Once I start nearing my old 5rm or when I start failing, that is when I will switch over to 5/3/1. Do you believe that is a good idea before moving to 5/3/1, or do you think even after I start nearing my 5rm I should keep with linear progression but move into smaller increments until I am no longer making gains?
    Sounds like you falling into the same trap again. How long do you honestly think you will be able to keep up a 40lb increase in deadlifts? Its not just about lifting a certain weight, its about giving the body time to grow and progress. You don't have to be lifting at your absolute max to get stronger, you just have to be consistently progressing, which seems to be your problem.

    You have to stop thinking about increases "feeling to low" or you will get no where. Whatever program you pick, do it as it was intended.
    Best Gym Lifts:
    475 - 315 - 585

    Best Meet Lifts (220 Raw)
    435 - 295 - 555 (1285)

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