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Thread: Need Speed

  1. #26
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    You got any videos of you sprinting?
    Can't say I do...but maybe in the near future I can record me doing a 40 or something ?
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  2. #27
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    That'd be helpful. All good advice above, but specific to the 40- sprinting involves technique. A lot of technique. I'd be curious to see yours.
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  3. #28
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Thanks for the input Travis. Looking at my numbers, whats a goal you think I should be aiming for? I've experimented with 5/3/1, DT, and now Toms' program. I've really been hitting a brick wall these past months with training. Anything you (or for that matter anyone else) would recommend? Upper body and back seems to be slowly moving up, but more importantly my lower half and especially my squat is not.

    Best thing is to quit looking for a magic program. Rather decide you are going to do whatever you need to do so that you are getting stronger. More times than not that means you need to really drop the hammer in the gym


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  4. #29
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Best thing is to quit looking for a magic program. Rather decide you are going to do whatever you need to do so that you are getting stronger. More times than not that means you need to really drop the hammer in the gym
    I see. Nothing to do now but hit the weight I guess.
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  5. #30
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    Well, not to be an asshole or anything, but this is a powerlifting forum. You'd be better off asking elsewhere, like on a football training forum.
    Right, so you can not have a clue on how to train to enhance your sport specific abilities. 99% of football players have NO idea how to train properly. The best of the best are simply natural athletic freaks. And yes, I have worked with NFL level football players and below so I have a clue as to what they do and do not know.


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  6. #31
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Whoop, if you want speed and agility then you need to increase your absolute strength and build explosive power. I have seen Westside produce some BEAST athletes (take good ones and make them better). Your training should be directed at your sport. What Louie will do with a football player is usually have them follow the basic DE/ME template with some tweaks such as less rest time between speed sets and then have them do GPP work that is directed at developing the sport specific conditioning they need. For American football that is the ability to go all out for 6-11 seconds, rest for 25-40 seconds and repeat several times. He also favors box jumps for developing explosive power in the legs and hips.


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  7. #32
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    Totally agree with Chris here! Explosive training is key. Dynamic effort training (part of the Westside method) is what you're looking for.
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  8. #33
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.
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    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  9. #34
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Got the westside book. Started this week. Got 495 for one on box squat. Here is a vid of my 40...one take, did not run my best. My right hamstring kinda tightened at the 5 second mark..but I think for the sake of technical analysis this will do. Thanks guys.

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    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  10. #35
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    You're not fast. HAHAHAHA! As an athlete, there is no need to do singles. You need volume and rep work. There's no show of maximal strength in football. I'd work in the 3-5 rep range all the time.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    You're not fast. HAHAHAHA! As an athlete, there is no need to do singles. You need volume and rep work. There's no show of maximal strength in football. I'd work in the 3-5 rep range all the time.
    Not fast enough..yet. Like I said..not max effort run. Friend had a camera and I just told him to film it real quick so Alex can see it. And if thats the case, how should I modify my westside template? Louie mentioned mentioned nothing (from what I read thus far) on 3-5 range. Just 2 ME days and 2 DE days.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 09-13-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  12. #37
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    I'll give you one tip for running your 40:

    Obviously, take a big first step like you did, but for the first 15 or so yards (a lot of people say 20, but I say that that's for people with shitty acceleration), take smaller, quicker steps in order to get up to top speed as quickly as possible. You want to stay low for those first 15 yards, and then "stand up" more (though still stay low).

  13. #38
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I was actually thinking what Falcon was. Your drive phase ends a bit too early- you pop up and stretch out but still appear to have some acceleration left.

    Though, conversely, don't FORCE yourself to stay low- your hips will bend there and you'll lose strength. Just keep pouring the power on and trust your leg strength to keep driving- keep your eyes on the ground until you're sure you're well over the 10 yard mark, (I'd say 20 yards is ideal) and once you DO stand up, get those knees higher and kick out behind you more- PUSH with your feet, don't pull- don't focus on quick feet at the expense of follow through and power.

    Breathing- Hold your breath for the first 10-15 yards, forcefully expel, and only inhale once more.

    Obviously this isn't the biggest part of your sprint- what has been mentioned elsewhere about pure strength and explosive power all applies- but staying lower and driving harder for another few yards can shave an extra tenth off your 40- which can make all the difference.
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  14. #39
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    When I started DE work I could barely jump on a 36" box. I've hit a 52.5" box since starting a couple years ago. Travis is right about dropping the hammer in the gym. You need to decide on a program and get on it. This shit takes time and effort to develope so the longer you wait the longer it will take to see progress!!

    Here's a link to the set up I've followed most of my powerlifting career.

    http://www.westside-barbell.com/arti...ynamic-method/
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  15. #40
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Falcon, Alex, and Justin: Thank you for the awesome feedback. \Falcon: Totally agree on the smaller steps while staying low. That will take some practice..biggest concern here is keeping explosive power WHILE doing those smaller initial steps. Practice time.

    Alex: Again, completely agree. I need to keep the knees higher, drive deeper, and look down. Going to give the breathing a good try too. I really just need to fix my drive..aka the hardest part.

    Justin: Thanks for the link. Hard work is all I need from here. Got my leg DE day tomorrow!

    In the near future I might post another running update and get some more feedback to see what I fixed/didn't fix.

    Thank you Rhodehouse (Matt, I think it is?) too.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 09-13-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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  16. #41
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    If you want to learn how to run check out Dr. Romanov's stuff: http://posetech.com/


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  17. #42
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    If you want to learn how to run check out Dr. Romanov's stuff: http://posetech.com/
    Ill look into it for sure. A lot of stuff on that site.. any book you strongly recommend or just skim for info?
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  18. #43
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    DeFranco actually advocates large steps at the start. He used to be in the small step camp but switched and gets much better results. You look slower but you're actually faster.
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  19. #44
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    I'd say, in the long run, if your form is right, your 40 is faster, but your 10-yard split will be slower, and IMO, and MANY other coaches' opinions, 10-yard split is the most important aspect of speed for OL/DL/LB/HB/FB/TE.

    Saying that, I take large steps because I have pretty long legs (long ass inseam, high hips), and it works fine for me.
    Last edited by Falcon63; 09-16-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    I'd say, in the long run, if your form is right, your 40 is faster, but your 10-yard split will be slower, and IMO, and MANY other coaches' opinions, 10-yard split is the most important aspect of speed for OL/DL/LB/HB/FB/TE.

    Saying that, I take large steps because I have pretty long legs (long ass inseam, high hips), and it works fine for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    DeFranco actually advocates large steps at the start. He used to be in the small step camp but switched and gets much better results. You look slower but you're actually faster.
    So is it my best bet to take a large initial step, followed by 15 yards of smaller, accelerating steps while staying low, then getting those deep long strides for the last 25? Or large steps throughout it all like Marcus quoted Defranco on?
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  21. #46
    Iplan Iplan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    I'd say, in the long run, if your form is right, your 40 is faster, but your 10-yard split will be slower, and IMO, and MANY other coaches' opinions, 10-yard split is the most important aspect of speed for OL/DL/LB/HB/FB/TE.
    ^ +12!

    Also, from the video you look like you'd really benefit from some agility training ~~~~

    Video here (it's a basketball link, but the principles of motion are still the same):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhPN7B9bisU
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    So is it my best bet to take a large initial step, followed by 15 yards of smaller, accelerating steps while staying low, then getting those deep long strides for the last 25? Or large steps throughout it all like Marcus quoted Defranco on?
    I like to take large steps, as my acceleration doesn't suffer when I do, but, for the average athlete, I'd say a large initial step, small QUICK steps for about 15 yards, and large steps (HIGH KNEES!) the last 25.

    I can't stress the high knees part enough.

    But, no matter what you hear others say, just know that acceleration is MUCH more important in football than top speed. Obviously, top speed is important, but if you can get up to full speed quickly, chances are you'll always be the first one to the ball, and you'll have "game speed".

    Or at least when I think of "game speed" I think of acceleration.
    Last edited by Falcon63; 09-16-2012 at 08:31 PM.

  23. #48
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iplan View Post
    ^ +12!

    Also, from the video you look like you'd really benefit from some agility training ~~~~

    Video here (it's a basketball link, but the principles of motion are still the same):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhPN7B9bisU
    Definitely going to invest in a ladder sometime. Thanks.
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  24. #49
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    I like to take large steps, as my acceleration doesn't suffer when I do, but, for the average athlete, I'd say a large initial step, small QUICK steps for about 15 yards, and large steps (HIGH KNEES!) the last 25.

    I can't stress the high knees part enough.

    But, no matter what you hear others say, just know that acceleration is MUCH more important in football than top speed. Obviously, top speed is important, but if you can get up to full speed quickly, chances are you'll always be the first one to the ball, and you'll have "game speed".

    Or at least when I think of "game speed" I think of acceleration.
    I agree. For pure football "speed", you need what gets you to the ball the fastest.

    I just really need to figure out what personally reaches me to top speed the fastest:

    Short quick followed by long
    or
    just solely long.

    From the sounds of it going small steps than long might be my best bet since the video is me running aimlessly which usually means just long strides.
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  25. #50
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Ill look into it for sure. A lot of stuff on that site.. any book you strongly recommend or just skim for info?
    http://store.posetech.com/Pose_Runni...Book_p/pmb.htm


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