The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
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    Bench Session 5 weeks out

    Wanted to share the video from last night's session, some of the highlights anyways. I really hate shirt training, it is alot harder than what people realize. This is my last warmup of 500 lbs raw, then going shirted 585 x 3, 650 for a single and then 750 for fail. If I could actually learn how to jack the collar on this shirt I know I could do a whole lot more than but it seems every time I have jacked the collar down I nearly decapitate myself so I always leave the collar up near my neck, which leaves alot of pounds on the table. Anyhow I'm 5 weeks out, probably shoot for a 725-730 at the meet. Once this meet is over I am going to do a raw meet in the near future.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uOA...=UL44uOAJPVgCg
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

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  3. #2
    Moderator Brian Hopper's Avatar
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    Not sure if your doing it already, but when you pull the collar down in the front, are you pulling it up in the back? I've never done this before, but have seen it done and it seemed to work.
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  4. #3
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    that 500 raw looked crazy easy.


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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hopper View Post
    Not sure if your doing it already, but when you pull the collar down in the front, are you pulling it up in the back? I've never done this before, but have seen it done and it seemed to work.
    Brian, we do that with everyone I work with in a single ply shirt with a closed back. If you just pull the collar down in some shirts, the back of the shirt will stretch, then pull the collar right back to where it was before as the lifter is setting up on the bench. I pull the back of the shirt up first, bunch it at the top of the shoulders, then pull the collar down and lock it in on the pecs. This way there is much less movement of the collar as the lifter moves their arms wrapping wrists or getting setup. It makes a night and day difference in my opinion with some closed back single ply shirts and setting them correctly.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

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  6. #5
    Senior Member larsen540's Avatar
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    Good job buddy
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  7. #6
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I just know I've tried to jack the collar down 4 different times over the years and every time I get the bar to touch as soon as I press upwards the bar wants to shoot straight towards my head.

    Vincent, I've not done a raw max in a long time but I would say I'm somewhere between 585 and 600 I try to stay in the lower rep ranges as I get closer to meet time. I plan to do a raw meet in the spring to see where I'm at.
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmccown View Post
    Thanks guys. I just know I've tried to jack the collar down 4 different times over the years and every time I get the bar to touch as soon as I press upwards the bar wants to shoot straight towards my head.
    .
    What shirt are you using?

    That happens to me when I pull the collar down and as a result end up twisting the sleeves slightly up at the shoulders. It is really bad for me in single ply Rage X's when I try to pull the sleeves down and bunch them to jack the shirt up even more.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  9. #8
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
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    it is a single ply super katana
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmccown View Post
    it is a single ply super katana
    Ok, thats the shirt I benched 760 in. You should be able to easily get 200 lbs out of it if you set it correctly and it fits correctly. With what your raw bench is, it really seems like you are not getting what you should from it. I apologize in advance if there is anything I write you already know. I think that shirt is an absolutely great shirt, but there are a couple of things I had to learn to get it to work right for me. First, you want the arms ridiculously tight on it (it takes a big guy several minutes to get me set in mine if its fitting correctly). Second, you want the collar to be a titch looser,so when sitting with your arms out straight, you want just the slightest of bunching of the collar.. If the chestplate is too tight, you will struggle to touch and feel as if you lose support towards the top. I also was anal as hell about keeping the collar and chestplate dry on that shirt when I used it. I tend to sweat alot and if I got too sweaty or the shirt got too wet, it seemed to lose support. I put a towel between the collar and my chest between every set to keep the collar dry.

    The thing I learned with that shirt is the key is to put the sleeves on so that the collar is where you want it immediately after you put it on. If you want to make major changes in the collar, you need to reposition the sleeves, otherwise it won't work right. It will lose support or you'll throw the weight towards your head every time. If you turn the sleeves so the seam is out towards the elbow, the collar will set lower. If you position them in more towards the inside of the arm, the collar will sit higher. I could never really make a major adjustment on that collar without having to change the arms, but again, I wore the arms ridiculously tight. That shirt is also one where you must pull up the back before you set the front. I did not allow my handlers to pull down on the collar directly with that shirt. It seemed like it stretched it. I had them only pull on the bottom of the shirt and then use a single finger to set the collar. I know it sounds stupid, but I'm convinced that I ruined one by having a handle yank on it trying to set the collar lower. I had what I called a "neutral" setting for the sleeve where I lined up the beginning of the curve of the seam in the arm with my elbow, then pulled the shirt on. From there you can adjust the collar up or down about an inch without it bunching. More than that and I always had problems. I also had the shirt tightened to the point of where I could just touch within about 20 lbs of my meet opener. So the meet I first benched over 700 in with it, I touched at about 625. The meet I benched 760 in, I had the shirt tightened (arms and chest plate) and could touch right at 705 for. This method seemed to work perfectly for me with that shirt for getting the most out of it. In training I also almost never worked boards until after I touched. So I'd work up to the first weight I could touch with, then work specific weak points with boards afterwards. If I tried to work boards first, the shirt always seemed to not work right. I can't really explain what or why with that, only thats how I did it and it worked for me.

    Feel free to message me or email me if none of what I wrote above makes sense. Its late and I'm tired so I may be babbling and not realize it.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  11. #10
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
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    What you're saying makes sense man. One thing I need to point out is that this shirt is the new SK Extreme (low cut). Every time I have used it I wet the chest plate and the arms to loosen it up a bit. My old shirt was the house fit SK in a size smaller (50). I had been watching some training segments with this new shirt and was very impressed with it and decided to give it a go so I ordered a size 52 in this one. I have used the shirt 4-5 sessions so far and have taken 700 to a 1 board and locked out no problem. I have 4 more sessions left to train with and I plan to train those with no boards. In those sessions I will not wet the shirt, leave the boards out and will also try to use the collar more because that's where the real power lies with this shirt, I just need to learn how to utilize it.
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

  12. #11
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Dont' wet the chest plate next time. Allow the shirt to warm up as you take your initial weights.

    I used to wet the chest plate but by the time I got to my final weights, the shirt had moved just a little too much

    Gotta get that collar down and press that bar straight up. you might be touching too high as well.


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  13. #12
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
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    thanks everyone. I'm gonna work on getting the collar down next session. One last question, as I jack the collar down do the sleeves need to be slightly twisted as well, towards the armpit?
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

  14. #13
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    No they don't. Just crank that collar down and touch a little lower


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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmccown View Post
    thanks everyone. I'm gonna work on getting the collar down next session. One last question, as I jack the collar down do the sleeves need to be slightly twisted as well, towards the armpit?
    I never got much out of a SK by twisting the sleeves as I put it on (like you can get with a katana). The sleeves are cut to already duplicate that effect (the torque seam). I think you can only pull the collar so far without repositioning the seam of the sleeve--this means you will have to pull the arms down slightly and then pull them back up. IF you can twist the arm with the shirt all the way up, the sleeves are way too loose. Tightening them will do more good than twisting them.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Dont' wet the chest plate next time. Allow the shirt to warm up as you take your initial weights.

    I used to wet the chest plate but by the time I got to my final weights, the shirt had moved just a little too much

    Gotta get that collar down and press that bar straight up. you might be touching too high as well.

    Travis, I think you hit on a key point. Let the shirt warm up. I agree wetting the shirt could not be done until the shirt is on and "warmed up". Otherwise by the time you get to heavy weights the shirt will give too much.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  17. #16
    illinois fattest lifter theBarzeen's Avatar
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    Honestly, it just sounds like a technique issue to me.... most of the time when guys have the bar come back like that it's because they didn't get their elbows untucked in time and the shirt just overpowered their triceps.

    It helped me to picture spreading the bar as soon as I got the press call. YOu might need to slow down the initial press from your chest for a while as you learn this too, sometimes that helps guys correct if they are out of the groove.

    Either way, good luck.
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  18. #17
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    Guys, a lot of great info in this thread.

    Sorry to highjack it, but...JK1, do you have any tips on the single ply standard Katana? I have a hard time making mine work, and I think it is a shirt set-up issue, since I have a LOT of trouble on the way down: it seems I cannot touch with anything less than 170 kg, and even then I have to go down in such a way that there is no pop off the chest, no support.

    This is forcing me to use an old F6 for my meet that is 2 weeks out.

    BW 77kg, shirt is size 40, raw max is ~120 kg.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock1984 View Post
    Guys, a lot of great info in this thread.

    Sorry to highjack it, but...JK1, do you have any tips on the single ply standard Katana? I have a hard time making mine work, and I think it is a shirt set-up issue, since I have a LOT of trouble on the way down: it seems I cannot touch with anything less than 170 kg, and even then I have to go down in such a way that there is no pop off the chest, no support.

    This is forcing me to use an old F6 for my meet that is 2 weeks out.

    BW 77kg, shirt is size 40, raw max is ~120 kg.
    Its hard to say without watching you bench in the shirt... Personally I like a Single ply SK or katana so tight I can barely touch my bench opener with the collar set neutrally. If you can touch lighter than that, the shirt is too loose in my opinion with how I bench. That said, you should be able to get significantly less weight to a 1 board with those shirts than what you can touch. It is hard to give you an exact number on that not knowing specifics about you, but for me Its about 75-100 lbs less per board as I work down from a 3 board. I'm a fat guy with a big gut, so my ROM is very short. those numbers may not hold with someone built differently.

    With both the single ply SK and the Katana, one of the keys to those shirts is somewhat of a rapid descent. By doing that, you stretch the shirt and will get rebound back, if you lower the weight too slow, the shirt stretches, but it also loses some of its rebound ability. It also require heavier weights to touch with a slow descent. I tell lifters I work with to drop it down as fast as you can maintain control of the bar, touch and then explode.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  20. #19
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    Thank you!

    Yes, I discovered the "fast descent" thing myslef, recently: it holds true for single ply F6 too!

    I'll use the F6 for this meeting, then pound hard on the Katana, to get proficient with it. After the meeting I'll upload the videos for review.

  21. #20
    Dr. Subtotal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock1984 View Post
    Thank you!

    Yes, I discovered the "fast descent" thing myslef, recently: it holds true for single ply F6 too!

    I'll use the F6 for this meeting, then pound hard on the Katana, to get proficient with it. After the meeting I'll upload the videos for review.
    With the original Katana, you have less pull since the collar is less-reinforced. But do as JK says and approach each attempt and know exactly how hard you need the collar to pull down. Have a training partner torque the sleeves too. You need to know that shirt inside and out and gear whore it out to maximize carryover.

    One suggestion I have if you have problems touching past where a 1 board is, is to get a piece of high density foam in the shape of a 2 x 4. If you can touch the 1 board, you should touch this as well. But keep descending into the foam until it is fully compressed. This will make you work hard that last inch and will reinforce good technique (especially if you lift with IPF rules and can't touch weights too low or bring your head up from the bench). I used this with alot of the lifters I worked with who were sub-100kg guys and had longer wing-spans.

    Make it your goal to touch quicker and quicker. Breathing triples and when used sparingly, negatives, can also help touching ailments.
    Last edited by BloodandThunder; 10-17-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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  22. #21
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    Thanks for the tips!
    I will start working a lot in this shirt, and learn it inside and out!

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