The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Callahan, you are missing something. He is performing the first 2 exercises on a Universal machine. Universal machines may have a different setup than your leg extesion machine. In addition, the 750 lbs on the leg press is again on a machine which, in this case, varies the resistance. 750lbs on that machine is nothing like 750lbs (it is heavier) on a plate loading leg press like you would find in most gyms. The leg extension you use is most likely very different than the Universal. The extension you use could have a pulley setup which makes the effective resistance much less than the actual, i.e. a pulley system can greatly decrease the force required to move the resistance. I am guessing that is the case because I have never seen anyone who uses 275 lbs for 1 legged extensions, and I have seen some pretty darn strong guys in my day.

  2. #27
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Belial
    Callahan, I would venture to say every machine is different.
    Boy, you certainly said it more succinctly than I .

  3. #28
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Belial
    Callahan, I would venture to say every machine is different.
    I was just going to say that. I see some leg machines where the rack is a joke and others that are super tough. That's why when comparing you can only really use free weights to judge. I know people may laugh when I say doing 100lbs on lying leg curls at my gym is tough but I'd challenge them to come try it out as I see big guys struggling with 70lbs on it.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

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    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

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  4. #29
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Blah did not mean to be the 3rd person to say it.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  5. #30
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Hey Callahan come to my gym and try the leg press we have. It's a 45 degree sled. I bet 750 wouldn't be as easy as you think. The only reason I say this is because I can squat a bit more than you I believe, yet I don't use 750 on the leg press at my gym. We should do a session sometime anyway...our strength is very close.

    Just saying that there can be a very great range of weights when sleds/machines/pulleys/etc are used.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  6. #31
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Ok now I look like even more of a retard as I responded to a post that Callahan deleted!
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  7. #32
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    I hear what all you guys are saying; and I know you're right about the differences in the machines.

    I didn't realize that a universal leg press would be substantially different from a plate-loaded leg press sled, either...

    Just to be a devil's advocate, I guess, the same arguments that you're making could also be inflating the weights that Viator was moving (except for squats), no?

    ElP - where do you work out? I may have to come and check out your leg curl machine.

  8. #33
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    Hey Callahan come to my gym and try the leg press we have. It's a 45 degree sled. I bet 750 wouldn't be as easy as you think. The only reason I say this is because I can squat a bit more than you I believe, yet I don't use 750 on the leg press at my gym. We should do a session sometime anyway...our strength is very close.

    Just saying that there can be a very great range of weights when sleds/machines/pulleys/etc are used.
    heh, sorry about deleting the post; I read all the replies to my LAST post and realized I was expressing myself incorrectly.

    For the record, I perform leg press on a 45degree plateloaded sled as well, not some kind of dumbass yuppie 'seated leg press' machine. My squats don't yet reflect my true leg strength because I'm still adjusting to them, but I have been told by guys much bigger and buffer than i am that my legs are "damn strong", so we'll see . . .

  9. #34
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    For the next month or two I'm still working out at Fitness Connection. It's on Don Mills in between Lawrence and Eglington. If it's not out of the way and you wanna come for a session send me a PM and we can get some details worked out.

    Would be cool to try a workout with another member...just no loud grunting!
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  10. #35
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    Would be cool to try a workout with another member...just no loud grunting!
    Watch out, Callahan. He's single and horny.





    *stops degenerating thread*
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
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  11. #36
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Haha very funny Alex.

    Anyway...back on track, Chris I'm guessing it would probably take a couple times out to find the correct poundage for that giant set. Obviously what someone's 10 or 12 rep max is after a set of leg press and extensions is going to be significantly different. Especially with no rest in between.

    Also, I'm guessing this would be more targeted for size rather than strength...do you do this every workout? Or just throw it in every now and then?
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  12. #37
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Actually, I was just thinking about that. You can tweak the routine to your preference by varying the reps. In other words, those who have a preference for powerlifting could use the same exercises, yet limit the reps on each to 3. Better yet, you could start out with squats for 3 reps, move on to leg extensions for 10, and then finish with the leg press for 12+ reps. This would allow you to continually increase your squat, while still getting the size building benefits of the routine.

    Concerning getting the weight correct for each exercise in order to get the prescribed number of reps, don't worry about it. Use your best guess, then just go balls out on each exercise.

    When you start, you will most likely pick way too heavy a resistance for the squat, again, don't worry, just go all out. The concept is th important thing, not so much the exact rep count.

    One last note, if you notice, Casey was performing 20 reps for the 1st 2 exercises, followed by 13 on the squat. This is ultra-intense, you can reduce the severity of the routine by dropping the reps. That is why I suggested the reps that I did.

  13. #38
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Callahan
    The leg extension bit seems a little light to me, actually . . . maybe part of how Viator managed to do this was by sort of 'resting' during the leg extension set.

    I could be wrong, but I know MYSELF I can do leg extensions all day long at 225... my working weight is 275 1-legged . . . equivalent to 550 w/2 legs. I have fairly strong legs, but I'm nowhere near pro-level, by any stretch of the imagination.

    I totally don't mean to diminish the impressiveness of the feat -- I'm just kinda musing on how it'd be possible/feasible without keeling over.
    You do 550lb leg EXTENTIONS?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  14. #39
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Callahan
    I hear what all you guys are saying; and I know you're right about the differences in the machines.

    I didn't realize that a universal leg press would be substantially different from a plate-loaded leg press sled, either...

    Just to be a devil's advocate, I guess, the same arguments that you're making could also be inflating the weights that Viator was moving (except for squats), no?

    ElP - where do you work out? I may have to come and check out your leg curl machine.

    You are right about the the flip reasoning, insofar as that could be true. I have, however, used a Universal leg press, and if you set the set to give you the fullest ROM, the machine is extremely difficult. I have also used a Universal leg extension, although it was so long ago I forget how it felt. The bottom line, is that even if he wasn't going all out on the first 2 exercises, how many people do you know who can do 13 full (read ATF) squats with 502 lbs after performing the 1st 2 exercises?

  15. #40
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Actually, I was just thinking about that. You can tweak the routine to your preference by varying the reps. In other words, those who have a preference for powerlifting could use the same exercises, yet limit the reps on each to 3. Better yet, you could start out with squats for 3 reps, move on to leg extensions for 10, and then finish with the leg press for 12+ reps. This would allow you to continually increase your squat, while still getting the size building benefits of the routine.

    Concerning getting the weight correct for each exercise in order to get the prescribed number of reps, don't worry about it. Use your best guess, then just go balls out on each exercise.

    When you start, you will most likely pick way too heavy a resistance for the squat, again, don't worry, just go all out. The concept is th important thing, not so much the exact rep count.

    One last note, if you notice, Casey was performing 20 reps for the 1st 2 exercises, followed by 13 on the squat. This is ultra-intense, you can reduce the severity of the routine by dropping the reps. That is why I suggested the reps that I did.
    Funny I was thinking the same thing about moving squats up to the being the first exercise...just didn't want to steal the thunder from this example. I would think it would be a bit safer and yeah changing the rep scheme would really shift things. Doing say 5 reps of heavy squats and then going to leg press and doing 8-10 reps to failure and then leg extension at 12-20 reps to failure would be ultra intense still and you would still gain on your squats each week, which is how I guage my leg strength anyway.

    The only part that scares me is that it's a giant set...usually after a heavy set of squats I'm looking for the puke bucket. I may give this a try in a month or so.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  16. #41
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Oh Callahan, the leg extension machine at my gym only goes to 255 for the whole rack...I can do the rack for 10 with not TOO much strain but I think that it's just a difference in machines...if that machine had the same weight scheme but went to over 500lbs I doubt there'd be too many men in existence that could do it.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  17. #42
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    Funny I was thinking the same thing about moving squats up to the being the first exercise...just didn't want to steal the thunder from this example. I would think it would be a bit safer and yeah changing the rep scheme would really shift things. Doing say 5 reps of heavy squats and then going to leg press and doing 8-10 reps to failure and then leg extension at 12-20 reps to failure would be ultra intense still and you would still gain on your squats each week, which is how I guage my leg strength anyway.

    The only part that scares me is that it's a giant set...usually after a heavy set of squats I'm looking for the puke bucket. I may give this a try in a month or so.

    I definitely think that leg extensions last is a great way to go; you can push yourself hard and worry less about dropping the weight, plus it is easy to make it a dropset if you really want to be cruel . . . do 20 at whatever weight, then start your dropset from there.

    Last time I did something like that, it was leg extensions after doing squats, deads, hack squats and something else... I got a set of 25 at a medium weight out and then couldn't walk for a minute or three. It was cool.

  18. #43
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    I did your routine with a difference I did regular squats first and then tried your tri set , and substituted the last squat exercise with hack squats and let me tell you something I think I was going to die! seriously It hurts but I enjoyed the pain..... looking forward for more masochists muscle attacks ....

  19. #44
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    Funny I was thinking the same thing about moving squats up to the being the first exercise...just didn't want to steal the thunder from this example. I would think it would be a bit safer and yeah changing the rep scheme would really shift things. Doing say 5 reps of heavy squats and then going to leg press and doing 8-10 reps to failure and then leg extension at 12-20 reps to failure would be ultra intense still and you would still gain on your squats each week, which is how I guage my leg strength anyway.

    The only part that scares me is that it's a giant set...usually after a heavy set of squats I'm looking for the puke bucket. I may give this a try in a month or so.

    Only one problem with your idea EL, the routine is a double pre-exhaustion routine. The idea is that you do a compound, followed by a isolation, followed by a compound. That is the beauty of the routine. So, squats first are ok, but the extensions must always be in the middle.

  20. #45
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    Chris I just did the thigh workout today and it was excellent. Just the one superset after I did my calves and I was ready to puke. I had to lay down for like 5-10 minutes before I left the gym. Oh and for anyone curious I had to do sled squats on a machine (because I hurt my back a few months ago and still am leary about going back to squats or deads) but the rest of the workout was identical to what Chris suggested.

  21. #46
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    G, other than feeling like puking, was it not the nastiest pump and burn you have ever had in your quads?

  22. #47
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    Damnit! I had a big reply made up but I guess it didn't post after I clicked it. Anyway it was a great quad pump after I finished, in fact they were on fire the minute I did extensions and rolled over onto the sled. I'll definitely be using the superset in the future to mix up my leg workouts. On a related note today was the first time I've ever really given one leg seated calf raises a chance and I'd have to say they were pretty good. Anyone else have thoughts on them?

  23. #48
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    I read an article by Mentzer on this same workout as he taught it to viator and he had the leg extensions first, leg press then squats

    I like chris's Idea better though and I think both would be great

    I love low volume and giant sets are well suited

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  24. #49
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    G-dot, i had the same expience as you did, i actually did it twice, exactly how chris described it and man the first time my head was spinning and ears where ringing alittle, then came the second set of sets and...MAN was i blowin away, i almost puked, had to leave right away, barely made it down the stairs, the front counters chicks were laughing at me as i stumble out the door. i know its the squats at the end that murders ya

    definetly gonna hit these up again every time my leg days come around
    Last edited by someoneunlikeyo; 07-27-2002 at 03:16 AM.
    my goals: gain weight and muscle mass

  25. #50
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    :evillaugh

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