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Thread: Pull Heavy To Move Fast? Athletes, Coaches & Trainers Opinions Needed!!!

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    Pull Heavy To Move Fast? Athletes, Coaches & Trainers Opinions Needed!!!

    Here's the article http://www.elite-kinetics.com/2011/0...-by-ben-coker/ In it he recommends, doing a squat, deadlift, or sled pull in the 80-90% 1RM range and run a sprint. He said it will increase your sprint speed. Most likely, in the acceleration stage(5-25 meters). I'm not sure if it would help track & field sprinters, but probably better suited for football, wrestling, baseball, etc... What do you think?
    Last edited by Millineum Man; 10-21-2012 at 11:12 PM.

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    I'm not an expert, but I have heard this about how lifting then sprinting would prime the body to activate as many muscle fibers as possible like the second paragraph in the article talks about.

    I think that was one of the ideas behind the training in this video of Werner Gunthor, World Shot Put Champion in the 80s and 90s:
    http://youtu.be/jJECepNeCJ0
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    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    It's called contrast training and can be effective, yes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    It's called contrast training and can be effective, yes.
    Do you think slow, HEAVY forward sled drags(150-300lbs) for 15-20 yards with a 2 minute rest for full recovery followed by a 10 yard body weight sprint effective form of contrast training? This will be done strictly for sprint acceleration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millineum Man View Post
    Do you think slow, HEAVY forward sled drags(150-300lbs) for 15-20 yards with a 2 minute rest for full recovery followed by a 10 yard body weight sprint effective form of contrast training? This will be done strictly for sprint acceleration.
    I think the 2 minute rest defeats the purpose of doing the sled drags for contrast training.
    "There is no reason to be alive if you can't do deadlift!"
    - Jón Páll Sigmarsson, World's Strongest Man Champion (1984, 1986, 1988, 1990)

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    565lbs / 551.1lbs
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    Senior Member Judas's Avatar
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    I dont think you should EVER grind out a lift when training for a speed/power sport (athletics, weightlifting, etc.). You can still lift heavy, and get the full benefit from doing so, but there is a difference between squatting an 80% weight fast, and squatting a 100% weight slow. If you can limit yourself to ballistic-only reps and check the ego at the door you'll find that over enough time pretty much all your lifts, even max lifts, can be fast. Look at Brian Siders... benches 660lbs at the speed ov light. Load 665lbs and he fails (at the speed ov light). To me, that is the essence ov 'power' lifting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    I dont think you should EVER grind out a lift when training for a speed/power sport (athletics, weightlifting, etc.). You can still lift heavy, and get the full benefit from doing so, but there is a difference between squatting an 80% weight fast, and squatting a 100% weight slow. If you can limit yourself to ballistic-only reps and check the ego at the door you'll find that over enough time pretty much all your lifts, even max lifts, can be fast. Look at Brian Siders... benches 660lbs at the speed ov light. Load 665lbs and he fails (at the speed ov light). To me, that is the essence ov 'power' lifting.
    I don't think that's what the author of the article was suggesting.

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    Senior Member Judas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millineum Man View Post
    I don't think that's what the author of the article was suggesting.
    Mine was just a general observation/tip. For a more specific to article answer i probably would have had to read it... haha

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    Squatting like that will activate Fast twitch IIB in the muscle fiber and that will result in short fast bursts of explosive power, so yes this should be effective

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    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    I dont think you should EVER grind out a lift when training for a speed/power sport (athletics, weightlifting, etc.). You can still lift heavy, and get the full benefit from doing so, but there is a difference between squatting an 80% weight fast, and squatting a 100% weight slow. If you can limit yourself to ballistic-only reps and check the ego at the door you'll find that over enough time pretty much all your lifts, even max lifts, can be fast. Look at Brian Siders... benches 660lbs at the speed ov light. Load 665lbs and he fails (at the speed ov light). To me, that is the essence ov 'power' lifting.
    Something to remember is that from a neuromuscular perspective your body is producing maximum force when trying to move a limit load. Acceleration and velocity are a function of force. You cannot move a limit weight quickly by definition, but that does not mean your body is not "trying" to. The difference between limit training and lighter loads relative to "explosive power" is the ability to specifically target rate of force development.

    In any event, the contrast method does work. It primes the nervous system and possible the motor units themselves for greater force production.


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    Any research that someone can post to confirm this? Also, anyone have any idea how I'd implement this with hang cleans, for example? Say my max is 285.

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    Senior Member Judas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Something to remember is that from a neuromuscular perspective your body is producing maximum force when trying to move a limit load. Acceleration and velocity are a function of force. You cannot move a limit weight quickly by definition, but that does not mean your body is not "trying" to. The difference between limit training and lighter loads relative to "explosive power" is the ability to specifically target rate of force development.

    In any event, the contrast method does work. It primes the nervous system and possible the motor units themselves for greater force production.
    Interesting... So then how would you explain Brian Sider's bench? The guy pushes wicked-fast, even his absolute limit weight. And he'll fail with another 5lbs, even though you'll hear everyone saying "Oh there was another 30lbs in there..." On the other hand, there are other bench monsters out there that can push the same 660lb max, yet it takes them 4-5 seconds from press command to lock-out. Sure, some guys are just born with the genetics... those fast-twitch bastards... What I am saying is that this is true, but it IS something you can also train.

    I used to bench like that. For years (and i mean years ov consistent gains) i was that slow guy. Epic grinders were my specialty. My friend was never quite as strong as i was, always about 30-80lbs under my bench, but he could just rocket that thing off his chest. All the way to his 100% he'd move that bar faster than my equal %. It took me years to finally teach my body to lift like that, and now i bench a lot more like Siders. The difference is insane.... and i mean back when my max was around 350lbs i was still pushing 225 at a snail's pace. That used to annoy the shit out ov me, and i then took specific steps to rectify it.

    This is getting off topic i know, but i'm curious now. Thoughts?

    Also, thats using bench as an example, but check out Pablo Lara's squats. This is about 85% for him, possibly closer to 88%, but i tell ya, i cant move much more that 70% at that speed...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcEsmhVag1c

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    Senior Member Judas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    Any research that someone can post to confirm this? Also, anyone have any idea how I'd implement this with hang cleans, for example? Say my max is 285.
    Assuming your goal with hang cleans is simply a better more badass hang clean, why not just train them like an olympic lifter would?

    You wouldn't ask a tennis coach how to bodybuild would you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    Assuming your goal with hang cleans is simply a better more badass hang clean, why not just train them like an olympic lifter would?

    You wouldn't ask a tennis coach how to bodybuild would you?
    Well, my goal is always to get stronger AND faster. I play football and box, so I need speed.

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    Do you think these few adjustments would work?

    I do Sheiko powerlifting routine, and I've recently made a few changes. I usually do 5 HEAVY hang clean singles before doing ANY of my lifting, in order to activate my CNS. And I usually do sprints after my workouts, so would pushing a sled for about 20 yards and then sprinting another 20 yards be effective? Never thought about it before, but obviously, since I get used to pushing the weight, running with no weight will become easier and I should be able to run faster than I normally would, "overloading" my leg muscles, in a sense.

    Does that sound about right? The hang cleans haven't really affected my other lifts, and actually, since I've started doing it, I've been hitting lots of PRs (plus, I like doing hang cleans).

    But, since I'm a runningback, I'm ALWAYS looking for ways to get stronger AND faster. They say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I say that there is ALWAYS room for improvements and not making changes will only stagnate your progress.

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