Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 136

Thread: Stop training your delts

  1. #1
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200

    Stop training your delts

    I'm not trying to break out some revolutionary new training idea by any means, just wanted to share an idea. I think, unless you're with the advantage of steroids, that you should not ever train your delts specifically.

    There are reasons for this, I won't just spit blindly into the wind. Take the view that you already hit your delts doing other exercises. Bench press and most pulling motions will work the front and rear delts respectively. But it goes well past that. For your arms to move in any direction requires the use of your delts to some degree. To simply stand around with your arms at your sides and dumbbells in each hand will force your middle delt into action. And how many training days do you hold weight, or have to heft a dumbbell onto your lap before laying back and benching, for example?

    The idea is that you are already working your delts well just by doing other lifts, carrying weight, etc. So don't specifically train them because they're already on the verge of overtraining as it is. Instead, where you would normally insert shoulder work into your routine, give some extra loving to the parts that really want and need it. Like calves.

  2. #2
    BIG BOI
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    401
    i almost agree. i would still do side laterals. but im starting to think shoulders are over rated. imo

  3. #3
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    I think I said this months and months and months ago.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  4. #4
    bone crusher
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    0
    can we still do it for nostalgic purposes, I really like clean and presses

  5. #5
    Bespoke Super Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Hertfordshire and London, England
    Posts
    809
    Personally I feel that you can get away with minimal delt work for bodybuilding purposes. For Pl purposes on the other hand I would definately say rear delt work is a necessity especially for the explosiveness that is required within benching.
    "A + B + C = Success if, A = Hard Work, B = Hard Play, C = Keeping your mouth shut" -Albert
    Einstein


    I've always gone to the gym with the conviction that I'll be the hardest working mother****er in the joint. Make that your credo, and hope we don't lift at the same place.
    -- Adam Fahy


    "Fran is a double-hard bastard"- Clint Brewer 31/12/02

  6. #6
    ...fattest...fatter...fat. WannaBeStrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    60
    This makes me feel better, since I can't do any OH pressing motions due to a lower back injury

  7. #7
    Way below radar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Somewhere between cognitive dissonance and the egocentric dilemma
    Posts
    4,375
    Or at least do something that works the rear delts...the anterior and medial delts get quite a bit of work with the other body parts, like chest. But most people neglect their posterior delts, which are important stabilizers for the shoulder joint and the "decelerator" muscles in any throwing motion that help to prevent injury and overuse aggravations.

    I could give all to Time except - except
    What I myself have held. But why declare
    The things forbidden that while the Customs slept
    I have crossed to Safety with? For I am There,
    And what I would not part with I have kept.

    --Robert Frost

  8. #8
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    south west Holland Europe
    Posts
    8,842
    so... i know i should know this, but whats a good rear delt exercise

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    336

  10. #10
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,093
    Agreed OH pressing is a complete waste.

  11. #11
    BIG BOI
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    401
    i love bent db laterals. and hate rev. pecik deck. dont feel anything with it. and people dont forget the rotator cuff work

  12. #12
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    Your rear delts will get ample work doing your pulling exercises. A great example to back the overtraining idea I'm proposing would be to look at someone's shoulders. They tend to have an overdeveloped (relatively speaking) front delt, a rather flat middle delt, and an almost nonexistent rear delt. This would even lead me to believe that a simple day of pulling motions is too much work for the rear delt. How do we avoid this? Good question. I have heard people say they arch their backs during pullups or pulldowns, but I think this minimally impacts the use of the rear delt.

  13. #13
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,093
    Originally posted by Johnny Vegas
    Your rear delts will get ample work doing your pulling exercises. A great example to back the overtraining idea I'm proposing would be to look at someone's shoulders. They tend to have an overdeveloped (relatively speaking) front delt, a rather flat middle delt, and an almost nonexistent rear delt. This would even lead me to believe that a simple day of pulling motions is too much work for the rear delt.
    Good point JV.

    Really interesting idea you have there. Most people I have come across do seem to have overdeveloped front delts and then pretty sh!tty side delts. Not really sure why this is. Kind of wierd if you ask m. Probably due to excessive flat BB presses and OH presses which hit your front delts. I am currently just doing high pulls and I think my delts are developing nicely.

  14. #14
    Wannabebig Member Podium Kreatin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    san francisco
    Posts
    1,034
    i STRONGLY DISAGREE w/ not training your delts just b/c they are used on other excercises. this justification can be used to say not to train triceps just b/c they are used on bench. anyone who's done skull crushers in addition to a chest workout will know that skull crushers blow up the triceps than the bench ever could. same for delts, not til i started doing OH presses did my shoulders got stronger. this then helped me bench more (doing OH press+bench gives a stronger bench and OH press, but doing bench alone will not give a stronger OH press)

    another reason y u should train delts is that we all know that light weights have little benefits right? a heavy flat db bench will work the shoulders the same degree as a low-rep-light-weight OH press. think about it. this could be proven (or represented) using physics. think of vectors and torque. its hard to draw diagrams, but if you know some physics you know that directions of forces can be split into components. tis shows how direct work is necessary (when u do benches, very little force is done w/ the delts) to work muscles sufficiently
    "No one can completely believe that I am natural.
    The most important drug is to train like a madman
    -really like a madman
    The people who accuse me are those who have never trained once in their life as I train every day of my life."

    Alexandr Karelin
    Ten-time World Greco-Roman Champion
    1988, 1992, 1996 Olympic gold medalist

    current stats (10/19/03): 20yrs, M, 5'4 @160lbs, ~11% body fat
    lifted since march 2000
    occupation:MCB major @ uc berkeley

  15. #15
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    I think if your shoulders are hurting yur bench you should stop benching for a cycle and instead do dips.

    I also don't think your triceps are applicable in the idea I proposed as they are a different muscle set.

    Thirdly, I am not doubting your knowledge of physics, as I have none, but physics does not take into account how very simple it is to overtrain a delt.

  16. #16
    3:16
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    4,254
    Originally posted by lronMan
    Agreed OH pressing is a complete waste.
    i disagree.

    do these only, and do less tricep work as a result.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  17. #17
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    6,557
    I've just started doing DB front raises, and I actually like them a lot.
    Age:30
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: Not Big Enough
    ______________________

    “Take things as they are. Punch when you have to punch. Kick when you have to kick.” — Bruce Lee

  18. #18
    Senior Member TerryRay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Toledo
    Posts
    83
    I disagree. Delts are just as important as any other body part.

  19. #19
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    Nobody said delts aren't important. To the contrary, their importance is very high. They're used in pressing movements, pulling movements, statis holding exercises, etc. They're a very important muscle group. That being said, and with respect to the ideas and examples previously cited, I think it still stands with merit that working delts directly can be detrimental.

  20. #20
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Central, MA
    Posts
    3,376
    Originally posted by Johnny Vegas
    Nobody said delts aren't important. To the contrary, their importance is very high. They're used in pressing movements, pulling movements, statis holding exercises, etc. They're a very important muscle group. That being said, and with respect to the ideas and examples previously cited, I think it still stands with merit that working delts directly can be detrimental.
    Well, your abs and low back are used ALL THE TIME, for EVERYTHING. Are you sitting right now? You are using your abs and low back, just sitting there (provided you have half decent posture). Should we never work our abs or low back?
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  21. #21
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    Again, a completely different muscle group(s) with completely different rules and ways to train. I didn't say using your shoulders for everyday movement was ample training, as you seem to be implying. I think it would also be very naive for us to sit here and pretend that the same rules apply to all muscle groupings and how to train them.

  22. #22
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Central, MA
    Posts
    3,376
    Originally posted by Johnny Vegas
    Again, a completely different muscle group(s) with completely different rules and ways to train.
    Good point.

    I didn't say using your shoulders for everyday movement was ample training, as you seem to be implying.
    That's not what I was implying. I was mainly referring to your first post where you said that shoulders are used in falling back on a bench to do presses and such, core muscles are used there too.

    I think it would also be very naive for us to sit here and pretend that the same rules apply to all muscle groupings and how to train them.
    I did not say that either, but do you do direct ab and low back work?
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  23. #23
    Ecoli die
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Colorado!
    Posts
    741
    When I get really busy and have to skip a muscle group in any given week, I skip the shoulders but to say not to do them because they are worked in other things? Nah, mix up your protein shake and go do your OH presses bud.
    Now in pain, only working out the walking sticks.

  24. #24
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    I rarely do direct ab work or direct lower back work. Unless we can call deadlifts direct lower back work.

  25. #25
    Member of the 1200 Club Johnny Vegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    200
    Nah, mix up your protein shake and go do your OH presses bud.
    Why? Have you not read any of this thread? Now while I posed the idea as nothing more than an idea, I still gave you a decent physical example to follow. Look at your own shoulder in the mirror. Does it ever change when you have to cut out delt exercises? I highly doubt it. Why is that if not because it gets ample work from other pressing exercises and the direct work lends itself to overtraining?

    However, I'll take that protein shake.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •