The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Layne Nortons PHAT routine

    What's everyones thoughts on this routine. I've been seeing a lot of positive reviews on it. Seems like an interesting way to train, but at the same time seems like it would be over-training. Thoughts?

    **Here's the routine for the unaware...

    Day 1: Upper Body Power Day

    Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
    3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
    3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses
    3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls
    3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers
    3 sets of 6-10 reps

    Day 2: Lower Body Power Day

    Pressing Power Movement: Squats
    3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
    3 sets of 5-8 reps
    Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary calf movement: Standing calf raise
    3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary calf movement: Seated calf raise
    2 sets of 6-10 reps

    Day 3: Rest
    Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day

    Pulling Power Exercise speed work: Bent over or Pendlay rows
    6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Rack chins
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or shrugs bracing upper body against an incline bench
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pulldowns
    2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables
    3 sets of 12-20 reps

    Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day

    Lower Body Power Exercise speed work: Squats
    6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hack squats
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions
    3 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Romanian deadlifts
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls
    2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy calf movement: Donkey calf raises
    4 sets of 10-15 reps
    Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises
    3 sets of 15-20 reps

    Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day

    Pressing Power Exercise speed work: Flat dumbbell presses
    6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press
    3 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flyes
    2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls bracing upper body against an incline bench
    2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated tricep extension with cambered bar
    3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable pressdowns with rope attachment
    2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks
    2 sets of 15-20 reps

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  3. #2
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    Personally I'm not a huge fan of combining body parts on the same training day. I've done something similar to that when I did power lifting and I've achieved more gains by keeping each body part on a separate training day.

    Caveat to that I have a way better mind muscle connection, so maybe down the road I'll give them a try again.

    Matt

  4. #3
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Layne is a very bright guy that knows his stuff. That routine is a good one. Just don't squat like Layne if you like your spine.


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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Layne is a very bright guy that knows his stuff. That routine is a good one. Just don't squat like Layne if you like your spine.
    What is this referring to? Or was that sarcasm?

  6. #5
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickles View Post
    What is this referring to? Or was that sarcasm?
    Zero sarcasm. Watch a video of him squat. His torso is parallel with the ground in hole. He is very lucky to have thus far not seriously injured his back in my opinion.

    On the whole, a bright guy with lots of good ideas as stated.

    Oh, and I know a thing or two about training as well.


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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Zero sarcasm. Watch a video of him squat. His torso is parallel with the ground in hole. He is very lucky to have thus far not seriously injured his back in my opinion.

    On the whole, a bright guy with lots of good ideas as stated.

    Oh, and I know a thing or two about training as well.
    I watched a few vids of him squatting and I now see what you are talking about. Would this be due to low bar squatting or a weak lower back? Or just poor form

  8. #7
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    I watched a video as well. It could be the fact that he has the bar sit so low, but his elbows also raise up which puts him forward and make his do like a good morning squat. Hes strong none the less, but like Chris stated, his form is atrocious.

    Matt
    Last edited by Matthew Bryduck; 02-14-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  9. #8
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    Maybe I'm missing something, but this routine seems entirely different than anything I seem to read on here, however so far I see only good comments about it. What gives? I'm talking about the amount of different exercises, the set and rep schemes-ex. like 15-20 reps per set, the frequency of training-5 days a week i believe etc.
    Last edited by gooby; 02-14-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #9
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    Last edited by Munky; 02-14-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #10
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Can you be more clear?


    Quote Originally Posted by gooby View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but this routine seems entirely different than anything I seem to read on here, however so far I see only good comments about it. What gives? I'm talking about the amount of different exercises, the set and rep schemes-ex. like 15-20 reps per set, the frequency of training-5 days a week i believe etc.

  12. #11
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    My cousin and I run a modified version of that program. Check out our new youtube channel. We just put up full workout videos of what we do. In no way, shape, or form is this overtraining. It may seem hard at first but you will become accustomed to the volume.
    Let me know what you guys think.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/GloecklFitness
    Check Out My YouTube Channel!
    21 yrs. old >180 bodyweight
    Gym PR's
    Squat - 480 (knee wraps)
    Bench - 380 raw
    Deadlift - 525 raw and 500x3 touch and go
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GloecklFitness

  13. #12
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    Nice ill have to check them out

  14. #13
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickles View Post
    I watched a few vids of him squatting and I now see what you are talking about. Would this be due to low bar squatting or a weak lower back? Or just poor form
    If he had a weak lower back he would not be able to do that, lol. He has a very strong lower back. It has to do with relatively weak hips and legs. It is also a form issue. He could make himself squat properly, but he took the path of least resistance to being able to squat as much as possible. It is all good until he injures himself. He could be the very rare freak who will not injure his back squatting that way, but I think that is unlikely.


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  15. #14
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    Well compared to those built to squat, he seems to have relatively long legs. Would that make it harder for him to stay upright?

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFabsik View Post
    Well compared to those built to squat, he seems to have relatively long legs. Would that make it harder for him to stay upright?
    No, that is horseshit... Look, there is ramrod upright, and then there is upper body parallel to the ground. His legs are not so long that he cannot remain relatively upright. He is fucking parallel to the ground in the hole!


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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gooby View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but this routine seems entirely different than anything I seem to read on here, however so far I see only good comments about it. What gives? I'm talking about the amount of different exercises, the set and rep schemes-ex. like 15-20 reps per set, the frequency of training-5 days a week i believe etc.
    Yeah, I was a little surprised by Chris's answer too. Chris is usually fairly conservative with his volume recommendations. Compared to Chris's own Maximum Mass and HCT-12 etc the volume in Phat seems unnecessary. I don't think it would be over training though. After experimenting with some really high volume of late just seems one wouldn't get much back for the effort/time invested.

  18. #17
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    I'll give it a shot just to see how it works out. I've been doing hct-12 for so long, the gains were good, but i need to switch it up a little bit. I usually like to just keep it simple so we'll see how it goes.

  19. #18
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Layne Norton tore his pec some time ago. After it healed, do you think it affects how he sets up squatting? He doesn't really keep his chest high and like Matt B pointed out, his elbows aren't under the bar either. If the elbows aren't right, when the weight is heavier it just pushes one forward. Like Chris said, it is a testament to his lower back strength to fight through and get the reps, but can be cringe worthy to watch.

    That video is a few years back, where is his squat at now?


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  21. #20
    Wannabebig New Member jakejoh10's Avatar
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    It's a great routine for someone who is accustomed to fairly high volume.

    If you're not, cut back on some of the accessory exercises until you adapt. You will have to deal with some initial soreness as well, but you can say that about most programs.
    Strength and conditioning is my passion!

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  22. #21
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    The volume isn't really as high as you guys seem to think. He is using some of the Westside style stuff with the speed work which is a bit higher in volume, but lower in intensity. Volume and intensity have an inverse correlation.

    Here is his lower body power day:

    Pressing Power Movement: Squats
    3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
    2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
    3 sets of 5-8 reps
    Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
    2 sets of 6-10 reps

    So, he has 3 sets of squats, 2 sets of hack squats, 2 sets of extensions, 3 sets of stiff-legged deads, and 2 sets of glute-hams etc.

    So, basically 5 sets of squats, a couple of sets of leg extensions, and then some work on the hammies and glutes. That is not crazy especially if you are not training to failure.


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  23. #22
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Layne Norton tore his pec some time ago. After it healed, do you think it affects how he sets up squatting? He doesn't really keep his chest high and like Matt B pointed out, his elbows aren't under the bar either. If the elbows aren't right, when the weight is heavier it just pushes one forward. Like Chris said, it is a testament to his lower back strength to fight through and get the reps, but can be cringe worthy to watch.

    That video is a few years back, where is his squat at now?
    No, his setup has nothing to do with his pec. He just squats like crap and never learned proper technique. He simply found a method of squatting that let him do the most weight he could and then stuck with that form and has been lucky enough to not yet blow his back out.

    And to reiterate, I am not a Layne hater. He is very bright and knows his stuff. I just have an issue with his horrible squat form and the fact so many BB.com twits and others worship the guy and will likely emulate what he does.
    Last edited by chris mason; 02-16-2013 at 10:08 AM.


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  24. #23
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    That does make the most sense Chris. It looks like it has gotten worse too by the most recent video. 605 x 5 is something to be proud of for sure though.


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    Just get under the bar!

  25. #24
    Iplan Iplan's Avatar
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    WOW ~~~ I read this entire thread with particular interest in Norton's squat form and then watched the 605x5 squat video ~~~

    Holy cow! I think I hurt my back just watching that atrocity..... The man must have disks of steel.
    Does this pose make my camera look big?

    "We're not as good as we want to be, we're not as good as we should be, but thank God we're not as bad as we used to be..."

  26. #25
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    That is quite possibly the worst squat form I have ever seen... it's definitely in the top 3.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

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