The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    MSG and Free Glutamates

    Was watching a documentary on diet. They shared how MSG and Free Glutamates stimulate the brain to store more fat. They also stated that around 80% of processed food contains these and are hidden under certain names..one of them being 'Whey Protein Concentrate' among others like Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Maltodextrin,etc.

    How much is true?

    Also, general discussion about MSG and how certain biochemical processes relate to it, especially processed food. Other food ingredients that have some unwanted effects (such as aspartame) can be discussed too. I want to learn more about such an unknown topic in todays world.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 02-18-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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  3. #2
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    I was particularly interested in the labeling as other substances and looked it up for Canada and found it to be absolutely true.

    There is a lot known about these toxic substances in alternative health. The problem is that alternative health has trouble establishing itself as credible because it's based on a lot of lore that just isn't true.

    There are two things that make me feel absolutely gross whether I know I'm eating it or not (ie; not placebo). One is MSG and one is aspartame.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holto View Post
    I was particularly interested in the labeling as other substances and looked it up for Canada and found it to be absolutely true.

    There is a lot known about these toxic substances in alternative health. The problem is that alternative health has trouble establishing itself as credible because it's based on a lot of lore that just isn't true.

    There are two things that make me feel absolutely gross whether I know I'm eating it or not (ie; not placebo). One is MSG and one is aspartame.
    I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.
    Lobbyists at work. Yay capitalism!

    It comes down to trusting your brands. Many brands would never exploit this kind of legal loophole.

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  6. #5
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.
    Hype and bullshit.

    MSG is a type of glutamic acid (simply has sodium added to it). Glutamic acid is a god damn amino acid, so of COURSE it's in protein.

    I swear to god, people who put these documentaries together should be beaten to death. With really small sticks. So it lasts longer.
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  7. #6
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.


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  8. #7
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.
    Yep ! It's called 'Hungry for Change'. Despite some wacky claims, which i'm much more aware of now, it has a good moral and is fun to watch. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead guy is in there too haha. That was also a pretty good flick.
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  9. #8
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.
    Ugh. I just watched that a few days ago as well and despised it. It was pretty ridiculous when just a few weeks into his fruit/vegetable juice diet he went around the country interrogating people on their eating habits with a deamenor of superiority because he drank rabbit food for three weeks and lost weight.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 02-22-2013 at 06:27 AM.
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  10. #9
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Ugh. I just watched that a few days ago as well and despised it. It was pretty ridiculous when just a few weeks into his fruit/vegetable juice diet he went around the country interrogating people on their eating habits with a deamenor of superiority because he drank rabbit food for three weeks and lost weight.
    Yeah, I agree it was a bit much in that regard. I do enjoy watching people make changes for the better though, and it seemed like both guys in that movie did. Certainly is not the only way to go about it.


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  11. #10
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Oh dear god no. I am so sick of hearing bullshit about aspartame. It's FINE. It's fucking FINE. Dear god. Let it go. Go pick on mercury in vaccines or some shit if you want more conspiracy theories.

    The effects of MSG and aspartame are NOT unknown. They are very known. They do NOTHING negative. Zip. Zilch. Nada. They don't run conclusive studies on them anymore because there is NO reason to suggest they DO have any negative effects. No drug company, academic scientist, or first year frickin PhD is going to waste time or money doing the scientific equivalent of proving that monsters don't live under your bed. There is nothing toxic about these compounds or any of their metabolites, there is no reason to SUGGEST they are toxic. There is no empirical evidence proving toxicity. In other words, LET IT GO.

    Conspiracy theorists prey on the uneducated, this is why these things just don't go away.
    Last edited by Alex.V; 02-20-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    Oh dear god no.... Dear god.... Let it go... Go pick on mercury in vaccines or some shit if you want more conspiracy theories.

    LET IT GO.

    Conspiracy theorists prey on the uneducated, this is why these things just don't go away.


    Lol just kidding. So is MSG truly nothing to worry about?
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 02-21-2013 at 12:24 AM.
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  13. #12
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Lol just kidding. So is MSG truly nothing to worry about?
    lol. Sorry mate, that wasn't really directly harshly at anybody here. Uneducated in the field of nutrition science and/or biochemistry doesn't mean uneducated in general- it's just galling when people with a bit of a background in it (enough to sound like a great authority) use the fact that their AUDIENCE doesn't know all the facts as a way to convince them that these facts don't exist. And that's no slam either- I think we all know how absurdly difficult it is to actually access real papers online- all you get is the crappy pubmed abstract; reading full text either means you need some sort of company or instiutional access, or need to pay out the ass for a single text.

    No, it's really nothing to worry about. No toxicity until super high doses are reached, no unusual effects on the metabolism have been observed in any reputable study (except for a single one in rural China where there was some ridiculously low increase in BMI for one study arm that was given MSG compared to control).

    All that neurotransmission/diabetes bullshit is ridiculous- the ONE study in question had NEONATAL rats injected with MSG- glutamate IS a neurotransmitter, and injecting a large amount of pure GLUTAMATE neonatally would be expected to screw up fetal development. This doesn't mean we should all avoid protein because it's dangerous to our nervous system.

    I mean, seriously, going from directly injecting a compound into a developing fetus to orally administering a compound in a mature adult? And drawing lnks from one to the other? The paper's authors certainly didn't even suggest MSG was dangerous- the only logical next step would be to see if maternal consumption raised fetal blood levels of MSG (unlikely, since the sodium ion is pretty easily dissociated from the glutamate molecule in a low pH environment, like...say...the stomach)

    Anyway...
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    lol. Sorry mate, that wasn't really directly harshly at anybody here. Uneducated in the field of nutrition science and/or biochemistry doesn't mean uneducated in general- it's just galling when people with a bit of a background in it (enough to sound like a great authority) use the fact that their AUDIENCE doesn't know all the facts as a way to convince them that these facts don't exist. And that's no slam either- I think we all know how absurdly difficult it is to actually access real papers online- all you get is the crappy pubmed abstract; reading full text either means you need some sort of company or instiutional access, or need to pay out the ass for a single text.

    No, it's really nothing to worry about. No toxicity until super high doses are reached, no unusual effects on the metabolism have been observed in any reputable study (except for a single one in rural China where there was some ridiculously low increase in BMI for one study arm that was given MSG compared to control).

    All that neurotransmission/diabetes bullshit is ridiculous- the ONE study in question had NEONATAL rats injected with MSG- glutamate IS a neurotransmitter, and injecting a large amount of pure GLUTAMATE neonatally would be expected to screw up fetal development. This doesn't mean we should all avoid protein because it's dangerous to our nervous system.

    I mean, seriously, going from directly injecting a compound into a developing fetus to orally administering a compound in a mature adult? And drawing lnks from one to the other? The paper's authors certainly didn't even suggest MSG was dangerous- the only logical next step would be to see if maternal consumption raised fetal blood levels of MSG (unlikely, since the sodium ion is pretty easily dissociated from the glutamate molecule in a low pH environment, like...say...the stomach)

    Anyway...
    Haha I know man, I was just poking some fun. Thank you for that information. The reason why I started this was so I can get access to this knowledge, which like you said, is full of wacky shit online for lack of better terms, and I knew some people on here have some good things to say.
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  15. #14
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    ....Reading those last two replies, I think I need to go back on my meds.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
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  16. #15
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I kept saying during the hungry for change movie to my gf a bunch of it was "liberal bullshit". They did make some good basic points about people setting themselves up for failure and the such. Fat, sick, and nearly dead was inspiring to see those two gents make some great changes to their lives.


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  17. #16
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    I kept saying during the hungry for change movie to my gf a bunch of it was "liberal bullshit". They did make some good basic points about people setting themselves up for failure and the such. Fat, sick, and nearly dead was inspiring to see those two gents make some great changes to their lives.
    Haha she probably wants a juicer now, right? Even though I must admit I'd like to get one to make some homemade juices/shakes.
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  18. #17
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Aspartame is literally one of the most researched compounds on the planet, and there has never been any conclusive evidence of health risks associated with it. If you're still skeptical about it, you may have some intellectual issues...
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  19. #18
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Aspartame is literally one of the most researched compounds on the planet, and there has never been any conclusive evidence of health risks associated with it. If you're still skeptical about it, you may have some intellectual issues...
    Was never skeptical about it really, nor am I still skeptical. Once I saw the movie I thought I'd start a thread to get a clear understanding of everything since they were saying "How bad it is".

    Plus, I wanted a general discussion about MSG/Free Glutamates and the confusion I had behind that.
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    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  20. #19
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Was never skeptical about it really, nor am I still skeptical. Once I saw the movie I thought I'd start a thread to get a clear understanding of everything since they were saying "How bad it is".

    Plus, I wanted a general discussion about MSG/Free Glutamates and the confusion I had behind that.
    I don't think he was referring to you specifically, mate. Aspartame being "bad" is one of those hot button topics that tends to inspire instant disgust, though. I think I'm just surprised that it's even still being brought up by these sorts of documentaries- it's been so thoroughly and completely debunked, and yet these filmmakers STILL harp on about it!
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  21. #20
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    I don't think he was referring to you specifically, mate. Aspartame being "bad" is one of those hot button topics that tends to inspire instant disgust, though. I think I'm just surprised that it's even still being brought up by these sorts of documentaries- it's been so thoroughly and completely debunked, and yet these filmmakers STILL harp on about it!
    Yeah I can understand that.
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    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

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