The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: The Cube

  1. #1
    Senior Member Paulo_Santos's Avatar
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    The Cube

    I have no plans on switching up what I'm doing, but I read the book last night and it is obviously similar to Westside. I'm not really seeing the reasoning for some of the things he's doing, like the separate RE day and not really going for PR's on ME Days. I know he probably has forgotten more about powerlifting than I will ever know, but I don't see how this is better than Westside.

    Any thoughts?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member larsen540's Avatar
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    Thought is prob just stick with west side. It is proven. I am not a fan of the cube.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member gaz90's Avatar
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    i havent read the book, but from what i know about the cube from articles etc. seems like the cube method might allow for better recovery......
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  5. #4
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    Dont like the cube dont do it that simple. Everything is different. What works for some wont work for all.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Paulo_Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertjr93 View Post
    Dont like the cube dont do it that simple. Everything is different. What works for some wont work for all.
    I get that. I already stated that I have no plans to change what I'm doing. I read the book and I don't understand the changes he's made and was wondering if there was a reason or if someone can help me understand it. I actually like to learn, so if there is a good reason as to why he changed some things, I'm willing to learn why.

  7. #6
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I think it might be difficult to get an unbiased opinion on it- there's been a lot of heated back and forth. Bottom line is it's another concurrent periodization scheme, but from what I see it relies more on rotating intensity (incorporation of more singles, doubles, etc.) than rotating lifts (substitution of similar movements for the comp lifts, which I get the sense the Cube founders find less useful) to avoid burnout. There's certainly more structure to the individual workouts, and I certainly wouldn't say they're low volume, but overall there IS a bit more recovery.

    Personally, I wouldn't use it, but that's because I couldn't fit it into my particular sort of training (with the heavy endurance component) without needing to make the entire structure obscenely complicated.

    I'd love to see Brandon break down the rationale for the particular changes, but I think given the overall tone of some of the back and forth (the initiators of which should probably not be named), I could see that going south relatively quickly. lol.
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  8. #7
    Wannabebig Member A.Schnupp's Avatar
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    Im currently running it and like it alot, I feel it does allow for better recovery Some things I dont see a purpose for such as 50 rep squats but I just replace them no big deal!

  9. #8
    Powerlifter/Strongman J L S's Avatar
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    There is no definitive method or training ideology that is the 'best'. There are plenty of ways to get strong and the cube is just another one of them combining basic principles of lifting in an effective way that produces results.

    I have ran it personally (and still am) and really liked it for squat and deadlift. I was not however a fan of the bench methods as I think at my level of training/strength I can get away with benching heavier/ or with maximal effort a hell of a lot more often as I'm no where near as strong compared to other lifts.

    The extra RE day which I think you are referring to is the 'bodybuilding' type day I imagine and thats in there to adress the most common weaknesses most powerlifters of this day and age forget with staple moves like Overhead presses, direct bicep training and the smaller muscle groups like calves etc just to provide balance to your training and physique, which will make you stronger in the long run and prevent injuries and muscular imbalances. Theres also room to focus on your 'weaker' bodyparts to bring up your lifts. Its almost like an 'extra workout'

    The ME day theory of not going for PR's is because a cube cycle is set up to bring the PR's come meet day. You build upto them over a 8/9 week period and are supposedly 'peaked' to hit them when it matters. The stimulus still comes from lifting heavy weights on that 'ME' day and volume.

    I am not Brandon Lilly or a bradon lilly/ cube nutswinger though and have been through my fair share of training ideologies so take what I have said with a pinch of salt, theres a facebook group for cube members and I'm sure if you post in there he would be more than happy to enlighten you further.
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  10. #9
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    I love the ideas behind it. It's a different way to address the 3 methods of developing strength. i would agree it probably allows for better recovery, but that's the buzz word of the industry, lately.

    I like that each workout has a very specific focus and each week it changes. I haven'tread the book, but it's pretty simple to understand the basics of the program.

    I will probably give it a shot once I get myself healed up and back to unrestricted training.

  11. #10
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I have no comment other than to say Westside, properly performed, is the best program I have ever encountered for strength.


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  12. #11
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I read the book. Seems to be working for people.
    Last edited by joey54; 02-25-2013 at 10:33 AM.


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  13. #12
    Senior Member Paulo_Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J L S View Post
    The extra RE day which I think you are referring to is the 'bodybuilding' type day I imagine and thats in there to adress the most common weaknesses most powerlifters of this day and age forget with staple moves like Overhead presses, direct bicep training and the smaller muscle groups like calves etc just to provide balance to your training and physique, which will make you stronger in the long run and prevent injuries and muscular imbalances. Theres also room to focus on your 'weaker' bodyparts to bring up your lifts. Its almost like an 'extra workout'
    Thanks for the explanation. I definitely like the part about the extra workouts.

    The version of Westside that I was taught has much more volume than most of the other Westside templates that I've seen. I generally do 5-6 exercises after my main lifts and I've had no problem with recovery and I'm getting stronger every week still. Every week, I rotate between Bench and Shoulder Press exercises and I rotate speed bench and speed press every week, along with rotating speed squats and speed pulls.

  14. #13
    Senior Member larsen540's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    I have no comment other than to say Westside, properly performed, is the best program I have ever encountered for strength.
    Wthout a doubt Chris
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  15. #14
    Senior Member larsen540's Avatar
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    Simple answer DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.
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  16. #15
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    I'm running it, and like it a lot so far. Seems to be working well for me and I enjoy it. I'll be testing maxes next week, then run another cycle for a meet in May.

  17. #16
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    My training partners and I are just finishing up the first cycle of the cube. Most of us are actually having a harder time recovering. Normally we run westside and recovery has never really been a problem. My squat has gone up however. Cant say the same for the bench and dead. I think we will be going back to westside after our meet in march

  18. #17
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    It certainly has a lot of principles that were taken from Westside. That's about all I'm gonna say on that correlation lol.

    The most common problem I run into guys who try and do a Westside template is that they don't do nearly enough volume. So for this stuff that is written up in the Cube, the volume is right there for you.

    I don't agree with a lot of the philosophies behind the training but I'm not to get into that here.

    In short this is a lot like what happened when 531 originally came out. Anything that forces you to work hard will in the end make you stronger to a degree. I just don't think it's the most efficient in making you strong.

    To each their own though. Do whatever keeps training interesting for you.


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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmurphy View Post
    My training partners and I are just finishing up the first cycle of the cube. Most of us are actually having a harder time recovering. Normally we run westside and recovery has never really been a problem. My squat has gone up however. Cant say the same for the bench and dead. I think we will be going back to westside after our meet in march
    So what's your definition of not recovering? Being sore and tired isn't a sign that you're not recovering. How long is a cube Cycle? 4 weeks? 8 weeks? I honestly don't know. Just because your lifts don't go up immediately doesn't mean it's not working. I'm curious.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    It certainly has a lot of principles that were taken from Westside. That's about all I'm gonna say on that correlation lol.

    The most common problem I run into guys who try and do a Westside template is that they don't do nearly enough volume. So for this stuff that is written up in the Cube, the volume is right there for you.

    I don't agree with a lot of the philosophies behind the training but I'm not to get into that here.

    In short this is a lot like what happened when 531 originally came out. Anything that forces you to work hard will in the end make you stronger to a degree. I just don't think it's the most efficient in making you strong.

    To each their own though. Do whatever keeps training interesting for you.
    Westside addresses Dynamic Effort, Maximal Effort and Repeated Effort, correct? They are addressed all in the same week for each lift. Correct?

    The Cube addresses Dynamic Effort, Maximal Effort and Repeated Effort, correct? These are addressed for each lift over the span of 3 weeks, if I'm correct.

    So both programs address the 3 methods of strength developement. Correct?

  21. #20
    Dr. Subtotal
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    Guys, the correct answer is to Cube your 5/3/1 weeks while Sheikoing your ME Upper Days and Smoloving your DE Lower days.

    I sincerely hope someone tries this one day
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  22. #21
    Powerlifter/Strongman J L S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodandThunder View Post
    Guys, the correct answer is to Cube your 5/3/1 weeks while Sheikoing your ME Upper Days and Smoloving your DE Lower days.

    I sincerely hope someone tries this one day
    If you supply me with enough test and growth hormone to create a genetically modified super soldier I'm more than happy to give this a try! 500LB+ on my total here we come.
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  23. #22
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Westside addresses Dynamic Effort, Maximal Effort and Repeated Effort, correct? They are addressed all in the same week for each lift. Correct?

    The Cube addresses Dynamic Effort, Maximal Effort and Repeated Effort, correct? These are addressed for each lift over the span of 3 weeks, if I'm correct.

    So both programs address the 3 methods of strength developement. Correct?
    cube doesn't use dynamic effort, but other than that yes you are correct. That was my point haha.


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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    cube doesn't use dynamic effort, but other than that yes you are correct. That was my point haha.
    Oh, I was under the impression Cube did use DE work. My misunderstanding. i haven't read the book. Just read bits and pieces.

  25. #24
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    He rotates a heavy day, an exlposive day and a repetition day.

    Heavy day is using 5's or less.

    Rep days go from as low as a easy double to as high as a set of 8.

    Explosive day is pretty similar to dynamic effort. He's not a fan of bands/chains all of the time and prefers to use higher percentages without accomodating resistance. I think 60-70% something like 5-8 sets for doubles or triples. So it is not the standard Westside Dynamic Day, but it isn't that far off.

  26. #25
    Senior Member larsen540's Avatar
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    It isnt the method that make people stronger. In fact I would go out on a limb here and say that most people that start a Jenny Craig diet lose 5lbs in the first week. Its not because it is the diet. It is because they are trying. I am not sure I would use the cube as a coaster for my beer. Dont waste your time. You dont take your vehicle in the shop if it is running fine right?????? West side works just fine.
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