Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Macronutrient question(s)

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Senior Member synonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    182

    Macronutrient question(s)

    Can someone tell me if I'm wrong in the following or if I'm over-simplifying things:

    Protein is used to build tissue such as muscle, organs etc. You need protein for this. Fat won't do it, carbohydrates won't do it. If consumed in excess, it converts to glycogen which is then stored in muscles and liver, and in a poor diet, as fat.

    You need fat in order to help with vitamin absorption, hormones and a means of energy. Again, in excess, stored as fat.

    You want carbohydrates because they have vitamins, minerals, fiber. They are used first for fuel thus allowing your body to use protein for muscle repair. They are stored in muscles and liver for later use. Consumed in excess, they are stored as fat.

    Protein and fat are a must. Carbohydrates are not, but they are beneficial and shouldn't be avoided (With the exception of the junk food carbs).

    So, if you're looking to lose weight, you want to make sure you have enough protein to prevent muscle loss, carbohydrates to prevent the use of protein for energy, fat to feel full and also to be used for energy.

    Is there anything you would add? Or did I make no sense at all here?
    Ban Censors Donít Let ___ Stop___
    Love Your Enemies - It Really Messes with Their Minds

  2. #2
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by synonymous View Post
    Can someone tell me if I'm wrong in the following or if I'm over-simplifying things:

    Protein is used to build tissue such as muscle, organs etc. You need protein for this. Fat won't do it, carbohydrates won't do it. If consumed in excess, it converts to glycogen which is then stored in muscles and liver, and in a poor diet, as fat.

    You need fat in order to help with vitamin absorption, hormones and a means of energy. Again, in excess, stored as fat.

    You want carbohydrates because they have vitamins, minerals, fiber. They are used first for fuel thus allowing your body to use protein for muscle repair. They are stored in muscles and liver for later use. Consumed in excess, they are stored as fat.

    Protein and fat are a must. Carbohydrates are not, but they are beneficial and shouldn't be avoided (With the exception of the junk food carbs).

    So, if you're looking to lose weight, you want to make sure you have enough protein to prevent muscle loss, carbohydrates to prevent the use of protein for energy, fat to feel full and also to be used for energy.

    Is there anything you would add? Or did I make no sense at all here?
    Most tissue in your body is some combination of fat and protein. Collagen for example.

    Carbohydrates do not contain vitamins, minerals or fibre.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  3. #3
    Senior Member synonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Holto View Post
    Carbohydrates do not contain vitamins, minerals or fibre.
    Where do we get our vitamins, minerals and fiber from? In good quantity?
    Ban Censors Donít Let ___ Stop___
    Love Your Enemies - It Really Messes with Their Minds

  4. #4
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by synonymous View Post
    Where do we get our vitamins, minerals and fiber from? In good quantity?
    Food. "Carbohydrate" is the name of a macronutrient found in certain foods consisting of chains of sugar molecules. Vitamins, minerals, and fiber are, by definition, NOT carbohydrates. So it's nitpicky, but true.

    Yes, carbohydrate sources tend to be the best for fiber. Vitamins and minerals are found in moderate amounts in certain starchy foods, but meats and vegetables tend to to be the best sources for both. You're unlikely to have a vitamin or mineral deficiency if you eat a wide variety of vegetables, a good amount of lean meat, and some plant fat sources (nuts, avocados, etc.).

    As for your second question- this HUGELY depends on activity level and amount of skeletal muscle.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  5. #5
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by synonymous View Post
    Where do we get our vitamins, minerals and fiber from? In good quantity?
    From food that contain those substances.

    You're confusing foods that contain carbohyrdates, with carbohydrates containing vitamins etc.

    Carbs are either a starch or a sugar. A starch is just a bunch of sugar molecules bound together.

    Starches break down to sugar.

    Sugar contains sugar. Sugar doesn't break down into Vitamin C etc.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  6. #6
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    The essential crux here is that fat and protein are what our bodies are made of. From tissue to hormones it's what we're built from.

    Carbohydrates do nothing but supply energy. We don't build anything from them. Our bodies can make carbs from protein and for this reason they are not essential to sustain human life.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  7. #7
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    Technically, DNA's backbone is built from sugar. But hey. (Your statement is still valid, just being a pain in the ass)
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  8. #8
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    Technically, DNA's backbone is built from sugar. But hey. (Your statement is still valid, just being a pain in the ass)
    Interesting. This backbone is also apparently resistant to cleavage which is more than I can say for myself.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  9. #9
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Holto View Post
    Interesting. This backbone is also apparently resistant to cleavage which is more than I can say for myself.
    +1 Internets for you, sir.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    478
    I guess I'll jump in with my over-thinking:

    -If your body stores fat because of excess protein/carbs/fats..and what point does your body know you're eating 'excess'? I understand going over your maintenance calories is a basic way of understanding weight gain, but if the macros (which are the units for maintenance calorie calculations) are what is truly the determinant, how can you guess what the right numbers are for you?
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  11. #11
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    If your body stores fat because of excess protein/carbs/fats..and what point does your body know you're eating 'excess'?
    When a calorie enters your body it can only ever leave as heat or kinetic energy.

    So once the energy is inside your body you can consider it 'stored'. It will remain stored until its used. Your body doesn't ever really decide, 'hey lets keep this calorie'. It's essentially wired to keep it by default. After a meal glycogen and fat stores fill up. Between meals they empty. Whatever doesn't get used is stored.

    If you use more energy then you take in during a given time period the result of extra energy leaving your body is weight loss.

    If you use less energy then you take in during a given time period the result of extra energy entering your body is weight gain.
    Last edited by Holto; 03-06-2013 at 09:17 PM.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  12. #12
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by Holto View Post
    When a calorie enters your body it can only ever leave as heat or kinetic energy.

    So once the energy is inside your body you can consider it 'stored'. It will remain stored until its used. Your body doesn't ever really decide, 'hey lets keep this calorie'. It's essentially wired to keep it by default. After a meal glycogen and fat stores fill up. Between meals they empty. Whatever doesn't get used is stored.

    If you use more energy then you take in during a given time period the result of extra energy leaving your body is weight loss.

    If you use less energy then you take in during a given time period the result of extra energy entering your body is weight gain.
    I agree with you 100% on this, as I know this for the most part already.

    I should have worded my question better haha: It's being said that 'excess' of a certain macronutrient will lead to fat being stored.

    But from my understanding, as long as you stay under your maintenance levels, their is no true 'limit' to how much you can have of said macronutrient, correct?
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  13. #13
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    I agree with you 100% on this, as I know this for the most part already.

    I should have worded my question better haha: It's being said that 'excess' of a certain macronutrient will lead to fat being stored.

    But from my understanding, as long as you stay under your maintenance levels, their is no true 'limit' to how much you can have of said macronutrient, correct?
    Yep. These compounds can be easily interconverted by the body to whatever is needed.

    For example- amino acids --(deamination)--> pyruvate --(gluconeogenesis)--> glucose --(glycogenesis)--> glycogen --(glycogenolysis)--> glucose --(glycolysis)--> pyruvate --(decarboxylation)--> Acetyl CoA --(lipogenesis)--> fatty acid --(beta oxidation)--> acetyl CoA --(citric acid cycle)--> oxaloacetate --(transamination, asparagine synthetase) --> asparagine (amino acid)


    And so on and so forth.
    Last edited by Alex.V; 03-07-2013 at 09:05 AM.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  14. #14
    Senior Member synonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    182
    I'm still kinda waiting for an answer to my previous question...but to add another, if under maintenance, say 2500 calories of carbs and fat with little protein, would you lose healthy weight? Or is there a 'limit' to how much you can giver yourself as far as fat and carbs in order to keep as much protein necessary to maintain LBM so that you lose fat instead of muscle?
    Ban Censors Donít Let ___ Stop___
    Love Your Enemies - It Really Messes with Their Minds

  15. #15
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    It's being said that 'excess' of a certain macronutrient will lead to fat being stored.
    This is patently false. I would ignore whoever is 'saying' this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    But from my understanding, as long as you stay under your maintenance levels, their is no true 'limit' to how much you can have of said macronutrient, correct?
    Correct.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  16. #16
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    478
    Thanks Holto and Alex.

    Apologies to OP for jumping in, but I have one more question since we are having a good discussion:

    At what point will your body start using stored body fat as an energy source? Yes, you need to be below maintenance levels but how do you avoid protein and muscles from being used as an energy source (assuming my knowledge is right thinking that our bodies want to use muscle first rather than body fat) instead of the body fat you have?
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  17. #17
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    At what point will your body start using stored body fat as an energy source? Yes, you need to be below maintenance levels but how do you avoid protein and muscles from being used as an energy source (assuming my knowledge is right thinking that our bodies want to use muscle first rather than body fat) instead of the body fat you have?
    I've read the body will burn muscle over fat because the muscle is metabolically active tissue.

    In my years in this game I've honestly never seen anyone lose major muscle when cutting. We lift heavy when we're cutting to preserve lean mass. The closer you get to single digit bodyfat the more difficult this gets.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  18. #18
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by Holto View Post
    I've read the body will burn muscle over fat because the muscle is metabolically active tissue.

    In my years in this game I've honestly never seen anyone lose major muscle when cutting. We lift heavy when we're cutting to preserve lean mass. The closer you get to single digit bodyfat the more difficult this gets.
    This is where I will differ from you, haha.

    I've seen people lose way to much muscle while cutting. And although I believe lifting to your best ability while cutting is essential, it's your diet that will preserve your muscle, not the heavy weight, since in essence lifting breaks down muscle and makes you weaker.
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  19. #19
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Thanks Holto and Alex.

    Apologies to OP for jumping in, but I have one more question since we are having a good discussion:

    At what point will your body start using stored body fat as an energy source? Yes, you need to be below maintenance levels but how do you avoid protein and muscles from being used as an energy source (assuming my knowledge is right thinking that our bodies want to use muscle first rather than body fat) instead of the body fat you have?
    The last point is true and not true- the body will attempt to shed unnecessary metabolically active tissue, but won't do so to its own detriment unless it needs to.

    The human body is CONSTANTLY turning over all types of energy stores. Right now, regardless of what you've just done or eaten, you're burning body fat. You're also storing body fat. You're building muscle, but also catabolizing muscle. You're tearing down bone to provide calcium to the rest of the body,but building up bone and storing calcium as well. These are not on or off switches, they are continuums. It's the RATE of these various processes that matters.

    Generally speaking, if the body has sufficient amino acids to fuel cell replication, enzyme creation, and all the multitude of other amino acid requiring processes, it will MINIMIZE muscle loss due to energy needs. To maximize body fat loss, the best bet is to maintain a marginal caloric deficit, to the point where more energy is required than is being taken in, but no major shortages of macro or micronutrients are found in the diet (which would lead to cannibalization of body structures to provide these nutrients, as well as to reduce the need for them.

    So, put simply:

    1) Continue to engage in activity that would under other circumstances stimulate muscle growth (resistance training), since this will continue many anabolic processes which will help to counteract systemic catabolism inherent in a caloric deficit.

    2) Minimize unnecessary, "non-muscle growing" activity (e.g. excess cardiovascular exercise), as this increases the need for amino acids and glycogen as fuel, and therefore hastens muscle catabolism (without stimulating muscular growth)

    3) Ensure your diet isn't lacking in essential amino acids, EFAs, or minerals/vitamins

    4) Do not dramatically cut calories to the point where the body begins to shed metabolically active tissue (e.g., go for a 10-15% reduction in calories)

    That's really all there is to it. As usual, the more complex the processes, the more simple the answer is.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  20. #20
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    The last point is true and not true- the body will attempt to shed unnecessary metabolically active tissue, but won't do so to its own detriment unless it needs to.

    The human body is CONSTANTLY turning over all types of energy stores. Right now, regardless of what you've just done or eaten, you're burning body fat. You're also storing body fat. You're building muscle, but also catabolizing muscle. You're tearing down bone to provide calcium to the rest of the body,but building up bone and storing calcium as well. These are not on or off switches, they are continuums. It's the RATE of these various processes that matters.

    Generally speaking, if the body has sufficient amino acids to fuel cell replication, enzyme creation, and all the multitude of other amino acid requiring processes, it will MINIMIZE muscle loss due to energy needs. To maximize body fat loss, the best bet is to maintain a marginal caloric deficit, to the point where more energy is required than is being taken in, but no major shortages of macro or micronutrients are found in the diet (which would lead to cannibalization of body structures to provide these nutrients, as well as to reduce the need for them.

    So, put simply:

    1) Continue to engage in activity that would under other circumstances stimulate muscle growth (resistance training), since this will continue many anabolic processes which will help to counteract systemic catabolism inherent in a caloric deficit.

    2) Minimize unnecessary, "non-muscle growing" activity (e.g. excess cardiovascular exercise), as this increases the need for amino acids and glycogen as fuel, and therefore hastens muscle catabolism (without stimulating muscular growth)

    3) Ensure your diet isn't lacking in essential amino acids, EFAs, or minerals/vitamins

    4) Do not dramatically cut calories to the point where the body begins to shed metabolically active tissue (e.g., go for a 10-15% reduction in calories)

    That's really all there is to it. As usual, the more complex the processes, the more simple the answer is.
    I fucking love learning shit.

    Haha thank you Alex, always appreciated. I like the continuum saying too, it makes more sense.

    To end it off with a bang: what is the importance of carbs (especially for football off season training) besides meeting your bodies basic nutrient needs? As long as you get the necessary amino acid intake as you said, and don't drop calories to fast, are they really that important?

    Reason I ask is because I hear from sources that carb timing as well as how much you take in can affect the amount of BF one accumulates because a lot of carbs wont be 'burnt'. I was always under the impression it was simply cals in verse cals out as we've discussed. Carbs just confuse the crap out of me,
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 03-08-2013 at 10:51 PM.
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

Similar Threads

  1. macronutrient breakdowns ...
    By Fiverz in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-02-2010, 11:10 AM
  2. Macronutrient Ratios
    By eps in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-21-2005, 12:40 PM
  3. Macronutrient questions
    By Big_Leo in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-23-2005, 08:04 AM
  4. macronutrient breakdown?
    By reloaded in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-28-2003, 02:04 AM
  5. macronutrient breakdown?
    By frankm007 in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-25-2002, 06:02 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •