The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Training Methodologies and Effectiveness

    Seems the recent trend in powerlifting has been comparison or sometimes even attacking training methods. As if we are at war between each approach or something.

    What I find most interesting (from my perspective as a long time member at Westside Barbell) is that certain groups are flat out appalled that Louie feels the way we train is anything but the best.

    My question, is why is this surprising? Our only goal is to get stronger and improve performance. There is no other agenda than that. If something else worked better we'd do it. Louie has a very specific way of doing things and it has proven successful. Things have changed in his approach over time as we've realized things could improve and grow.

    Some of the insults of recent stem from an idea that he should not feel the way things are done in the gym is the correct way or most effective way to train.

    So my question is, does everyone else feel this way about their own training? Do the writers of different programs feel they are allowing room for error, or do they feel that they are creating the best program out there?

    How about your own training? Do you feel that you are training the best way?


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  3. #2
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I like the way I train and am always looking for something to improve it.


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  4. #3
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    Don't know who says things like that but it doesn't make sense. Why would anyone purposely do something other than what they thought was the best way if they are trying to get better at something?

    I really think there are many good ways of training. If you find something that works then do it until it stops working then do something else. Not anything too special about it. It doesn't mean the same thing works best for everyone but I don't see why there would ever be a reason to put down what someone else does if it works for them and they enjoy what they are doing.

    As far as do I think what I am doing is best? Maybe. I have no idea. I like to believe so, but no one really knows. Maybe I could have done something different the last five years and total 100lbs. more by now, but there is no way of knowing that. Just have to be happy with progress.
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  5. #4
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    It seems like the guys who are bashing Westside are doing it to help sell their own training methods. These guys are trainers who have a specific product to sell. It's kind of like a bad commercial, bashing the best in the market to make your product look better and create a buzz in general. As far as my training being the best, my only regret about training Westside methods is that I didn't start sooner.

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member
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    Hello All- I got directed to this board by one of my training partners Stumpp. I have to compliment it for being the best I have seen as its all lifting related topics,unlike a lot of other foums. I have had the great fortune to be able to train,compete with, and most of all learn from some of the best lifters in the sports history. This includes my good friend of over 15 years Vin D. It also includes my friend of over 21 years Louie Simmons. I got involved in PL in the late 80s when Ed Coan was making his mark as well, Ed Coan. So of course I got all the info I could and did the Coan method. Guess what....I went backwards. Plus I was from an area where the older lifters wouldnt help a young guy like they do today. This and PL USA led me to Louie. All he did was over the next couple decades was help educate a complete stranger at the time and help mine and those I train with lifts develop constantly. At the risk of sounding like an @#$hole I will quote Johnny Cash- Ive been everywhere man. And one thing thats true ( VinD sed this to me years ago) is that to be great you must be a student of the game. Very true words. Am I dumb enough to say Coans program sucked cuz it didnt work for me? No. My point is something Louie taught me- a lifter must be his own best coach and find what works best for him/her.To me thats the Westside way - attack your weaknesses and do what works for you,while thinking for yourself. Sorry for the long post.

  7. #6
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    Naturally, i agree with Chuck, lol.
    2000 or bust

  8. #7
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    I find training like most things has to fit your lifestyle and your personality. I train based on the time I have, training partners, and the equipment at my disposle. Ill never be a sheiko lifter only because it doesnt fit my personailty.

    Im sure I could do things better but with my current family situation my training is what it has to be.
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  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    Hello All- I got directed to this board by one of my training partners Stumpp. I have to compliment it for being the best I have seen as its all lifting related topics,unlike a lot of other foums. I have had the great fortune to be able to train,compete with, and most of all learn from some of the best lifters in the sports history. This includes my good friend of over 15 years Vin D. It also includes my friend of over 21 years Louie Simmons. I got involved in PL in the late 80s when Ed Coan was making his mark as well, Ed Coan. So of course I got all the info I could and did the Coan method. Guess what....I went backwards. Plus I was from an area where the older lifters wouldnt help a young guy like they do today. This and PL USA led me to Louie. All he did was over the next couple decades was help educate a complete stranger at the time and help mine and those I train with lifts develop constantly. At the risk of sounding like an @#$hole I will quote Johnny Cash- Ive been everywhere man. And one thing thats true ( VinD sed this to me years ago) is that to be great you must be a student of the game. Very true words. Am I dumb enough to say Coans program sucked cuz it didnt work for me? No. My point is something Louie taught me- a lifter must be his own best coach and find what works best for him/her.To me thats the Westside way - attack your weaknesses and do what works for you,while thinking for yourself. Sorry for the long post.

  10. #9
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Thx for the kind words Chuck. Great having you here.

    This is such a loaded question. First, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Louie and Westside. To some degree I have to agree with a sentiment out there, if you are not training at Westside, you are not training Westside. That's why when I'm doing it, I call it concurrent or conjugate training.

    I used the system very effectively to bench 600 lbs raw in two weight classes. Then I got stuck. As a result, I enlisted the coaching of Josh Bryant. His is a much more volume driven program. I have not competed yet, so I cannot comment on its true efficacy. However, I am pleased with my progress thus far.

    Is Josh's program superior to what I was doing? I don't know. Am I working harder than I had in the past. To that I must answer yes. Perhaps I was too complacent in my past programming. Maybe I needed to get more ME lifts in the 90% range. I do know my body is repsonding better to benching once a week now. I just could no longer recover from benching twice a week. I think I'm just too old for it. Either that or I have too many heavy lifting years on me.

    Here are a few things I am certain of. There are plenty of ways to get strong. I am really happy to be coached by Josh Bryant presently. It would be incredible to be coached by Louie.


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  11. #10
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post

    So my question is, does everyone else feel this way about their own training? Do the writers of different programs feel they are allowing room for error, or do they feel that they are creating the best program out there?

    How about your own training? Do you feel that you are training the best way?
    I figure we all think our own training is, to a certain extent, the best we've currently found... or we'd be changing it to something we think is better. I agree with the folks saying that every lifter is different- not just lifter to lifter, but for the same person year to year. Bodies change, they age, they adapt or de-adapt... all of these competing programs are intelligently designed following sound principles... but there's a LOT more overlap between them than people seem to claim. Not to mention the old "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants". Nobody in this sport has the right to claim "their" method is superior- we're all just combining and tweaking other's ideas and research, building upon what they've learned, then contributing our own thoughts and experience into the pool.

    As much as I hate the sniping, I think it's actually been GOOD for powerlifting- it keeps the pool fresh, forces people to once again think about WHY they do things, and approach everything with a critical eye and a dose of skepticism. Sports that continuously innovate and question dogma are the ones that make progress- those that don't, stagnate and wither.

    I just think we all need to be realistic here and admit that we all have no right to talk smack about other's systems... they all represent the combined experience and knowledge of more individuals than we individually could ever hope to match.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
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  12. #11
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Thx for the kind words Chuck. Great having you here.

    This is such a loaded question. First, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Louie and Westside. To some degree I have to agree with a sentiment out there, if you are not training at Westside, you are not training Westside. That's why when I'm doing it, I call it concurrent or conjugate training.
    I would agree with this.

    I used the system very effectively to bench 600 lbs raw in two weight classes. Then I got stuck. As a result, I enlisted the coaching of Josh Bryant. His is a much more volume driven program. I have not competed yet, so I cannot comment on its true efficacy. However, I am pleased with my progress thus far.

    Is Josh's program superior to what I was doing? I don't know. Am I working harder than I had in the past. To that I must answer yes. Perhaps I was too complacent in my past programming. Maybe I needed to get more ME lifts in the 90% range. I do know my body is repsonding better to benching once a week now. I just could no longer recover from benching twice a week. I think I'm just too old for it. Either that or I have too many heavy lifting years on me.

    Here are a few things I am certain of. There are plenty of ways to get strong. I am really happy to be coached by Josh Bryant presently. It would be incredible to be coached by Louie.
    I wasn't meaning for it to be a loaded question per se, but I see how it reads like that. I really EXPECT everyone to feel their training system is the best for them. Louie feels his system is the best. Boris feels his system is the best. And so on.

    What I'm getting at is that people should not be surprised when someone feels their training system is the best. There is no reason to go write a bunch of poorly structured blog posts claiming disgust or shock that someone out there thinks highly of their training system.

    If you want to have a structured discussion comparing different aspects of training methodologies, that's one thing. That can be really beneficial. Smack talking just makes a person appear to lack self confidence.


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  13. #12
    Senior Member
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    How is this even a thread..

    Crossfit/Paleo

    /thread















    No but seriously, not to take the thread off course too much, but man, there is almost nothing more annoying right now than when all of your friends suddenly start the crossfit/paleo trend and suddenly there is no other way to train and eat.

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