The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Cardio w/o hindering gains

    Going to be turning 40 here and I'm in decent shape but want to get back to my mid-20 shape. I've lifted fairly steadily over most of my life and always played sports outside of the last 10 years. I'm starting to play softball and covering most of the outfield since most the guys are in their 60s. I've been running but been reading that I'm not really doing myself any favors. So want is a better option than running as I want to keep my cardio up as it's nice to be able to still sprint around the bags and cover a big outfield.

    Thanks,
    John
    Last edited by Hawk45; 08-19-2013 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Revamped question
    Age: 40
    Height: 6'4"
    Weight: 226

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  3. #2
    Atheist Lifter evilxxx's Avatar
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    Since I am a year behind you...How much running are you doing now? what intensity?,how many miles? whats your average pace?
    Current Stats:
    5'8" @ 204lbs

    2013 Goals (single ply):
    1700lbs total

  4. #3
    Senior Member tom183's Avatar
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    I've been running but been reading that I'm not really doing myself any favors.
    What specifically is your concern? Joint pain, overuse injuries?

  5. #4
    Senior Member
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    If you want to get back to how you were in your 20s I would encourage running, just make sure you're running outside if you can, not on a machine and keep lifting hard. Technically, It could slow your strength down but if you're just trying to get in shape running and weightlifting is a right formula.

    When I was in the Marines I ran 3-4 times a week 3-6 miles and lifted heavy, I'm around 5'9' and I was around 185lbs, the best body I ever had. I was very muscular with a six-pack.

  6. #5
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    IMO The only running you should be doing is some sort of sprint intervals.

  7. #6
    Wannabebig Member
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    I've been doing 3.5 miles about 4-5 times a week. I keep my pace at about 5.5 mph, a steady jog. I don't want to be taking anything away from my muscle gains by running too much though.
    Age: 40
    Height: 6'4"
    Weight: 226

  8. #7
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    Hawk45, I just suggested what you need to do to prevent muscle loss.

  9. #8
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Yeah, and it's one suggestion, but not the only one.

    You won't lose muscle running at that pace that few days a week as long as you compensate calorically.

    And the damn "Do sprint intervals" advice every time somebody asks about cardio has to stop. Sprint intervals are ONE exercise modality with their own limitations, both in terms of the aerobic adaptations they give you and in terms of their metabolic/muscular costs.

    OP- I WOULD vary your running a bit- alternate between steady state and various forms of (non-sprint) interval training to give your system a break day to day. If you post up your routine, I'd be happy to take a look.

    I train over 20 military personnel who do FAR more running than that, and who still maintain incredible strength and muscle mass, several of whom are in your age range.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  10. #9
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    And the damn "Do sprint intervals" advice every time somebody asks about cardio has to stop.
    Thank you.
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  11. #10
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    Alex V. resistance training combined with steady state cardio blunts protein synthesis. Iono about you, but I'm going to prevent that as much as possible. I could also pull up studies if you would like showing you how immensely superior hiit is to any form of steady state cardio. Conversation of muscle mass.....elevated metabolism for a period of time..... not to mention it a whole hell of a lot quicker.

    Oh btw, just because you've been training a group of people a certain does not mean it was the optimal way.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Paulo_Santos's Avatar
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    For the OP's goals, I would mix it up with different runs. He is trying to get in shape for softball, not a marathon, so he could keep the volume in the low-medium range and he'll be fine. If we were talking about someone that was a competitive bodybuilder, then maybe that would be an issue, but I'm not an expert on that.

  13. #12
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Bryduck View Post
    Alex V. resistance training combined with steady state cardio blunts protein synthesis. Iono about you, but I'm going to prevent that as much as possible. I could also pull up studies if you would like showing you how immensely superior hiit is to any form of steady state cardio. Conversation of muscle mass.....elevated metabolism for a period of time..... not to mention it a whole hell of a lot quicker.
    Please do. Shower me with pubmed links performed on people doing ten sets of leg presses. I certainly can't say I've ever read a study on endurance training. Please, share with me the superiority of HIIT to steady state (For what, btw? Being better at HIIT, or being a better runner? Or improving cardiac output, stroke volume, utilization of lipids during aerobic activity, speeding lactic acid clearance, improving peripheral vascularity, lowering diastolic blood pressure, improving general versus specific work capacity...)?

    And you're right. How silly of me. Perhaps I should learn me some science.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  14. #13
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo_Santos View Post
    For the OP's goals, I would mix it up with different runs. He is trying to get in shape for softball, not a marathon, so he could keep the volume in the low-medium range and he'll be fine. If we were talking about someone that was a competitive bodybuilder, then maybe that would be an issue, but I'm not an expert on that.
    ^ This.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  15. #14
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Last edited by thecityalive; 08-21-2013 at 08:19 PM.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
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    twitter @thecityalive

  16. #15
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    HIIT has it's place. It's a great training tool, but this gentleman's needs point to other options. Does this mean throw it out the window? No. But it also doesn't mean it should be his primary source. He wants to be in a better cardiovascular state: that is steady state running's purpose. He also want's to be in better 'general' shape: that can be accomplished via diet and proper resistance training. Different running routines mixed appropriately have a multitude of benefits compared to solely HIIt in this specific case.
    Bench: 350
    Squat: 475
    Dead: 500

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

  17. #16
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    I forgive you..
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    And you're right. How silly of me. Perhaps I should learn me some science.

  18. #17
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    My work here is done.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  19. #18
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Good lord.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  20. #19
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    Alex.V, I will find those studies over the next couple days. There's nothing wrong a health discussion/debate.

  21. #20
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Everyone can debate both sides of the coin, steady state VS intervals, but it always comes down to the individuals goals and what they are trying to attain. EVERYTHING has its place if applied correctly. The only time a certain method is more optimal is if it is directly correlated to the individuals main goal. I'm not a fan of a lot of steady state cardio by any means, but if my client is going to do a marathon then it is a must. If I have a client that wants to improve overall aerobic capacity and look good I would implement some steady state as well as intervals at some point during their training.

    There is never a One size fits all approach.

  22. #21
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Well said, Allen, Alex and Matthew. I don't think it has to be an all-or-nothing with this difference.

    I have heard about, however, crossfitters who just sign up and run a marathon and do great. Does this mean that their CF is a kind of SS cardio? I don't know... They seem to argue that theirs is a HIIT style training that makes being able to jump into a marathon possible... but again, I do not know... And extended durations of high heart rate does, as is done in CF, seems like a kind of steady state cardio...but again I do not know.

    From my own personal experience a weight program, such as Starting Strength, along with some plyometric training and HIIT followed by SS cardio (not that SS has to be easy) along with intermittent CF style training did wonders for my athletic endeavours, which was collegiate rugby and a wannabe OLY lifter. I was 21-22 years old at that time.

    Everyone is different and responds differently, both mentally and physically, to different training styles, even if some styles are "scientifically" more efficient than others. I really think the best anyone can do is trial and error within certain basic training ideology parameters.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-26-2013 at 08:41 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  23. #22
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post

    I have heard about, however, crossfitters who just sign up and run a marathon and do great. ]
    This is the exception, not the rule. The founder of CrossFit endurance has DNFed every race he's entered since starting his own program. Of dozens of triathletes and ultra runners I work with, the few who've tried CF/CFE programs have gotten dramatically slower.

    There is simply no substitute for duration when it comes to building an aerobic base, and the higher the intensity, the shorter the duration... not to mention the more difficult it becomes to program in strength training at the same time.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  24. #23
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    (Not to disagree with your overarching point, just clarifying. )
    Last edited by Alex.V; 08-26-2013 at 09:45 PM.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  25. #24
    Moderator Matthew Bryduck's Avatar
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    I had to run to my car to get my gym bag today because it was raining. Was I catabolic while engage in steady state cardio? =/

  26. #25
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    LOL. You lost gainz, bro!
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

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