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Thread: What would you do different if you were in charge of CF?

  1. #1
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    What would you do different if you were in charge of CF?

    I have learned a lot from CrossFit and think overall it has done more benefit for fitness than harm.

    I think it has really expanded using barbells especially for olympic lifting and to some extent powerlifting. I also think it has broadened they way a lot of people train even if they don't CF. Early on I felt training was weights and then running. Some type of bodybuilding routine say 3-4 exercises for 3-4 sets for 8-12 reps (or some permutation of that) then do some cardio. I think CF help popularize metabolic conditioning and many other fitness domains in between weights and cardio outside of sport.

    I feel it also helped bring back explosive work into the training of non-athletes.

    I know Crossfit didn't create the concepts, but certainly helped bring these ideas to the forefront.

    Obviously it will continue to evolve. What things would you make different or what things have you gleamed from crossfit?

  2. #2
    Tap, Rack, Bacon ncsuLuke's Avatar
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    I would fire whatever clown programmed this workout:

    14.3 WOD:
    MEN - includes Masters Men up to 54 years old
    Complete as many reps as possible in 8 minutes of:
    135-lb. deadlifts, 10 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch
    185-lb. deadlifts, 15 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch
    225-lb. deadlifts, 20 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch
    275-lb. deadlifts, 25 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch
    315-lb. deadlifts, 30 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch
    365-lb. deadlifts, 35 reps
    15 box jumps, 24-inch

    WOMEN - includes Masters Women up to 54 years old
    Complete as many reps as possible in 8 minutes of:
    95-lb. deadlifts, 10 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch
    135-lb. deadlifts, 15 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch
    155-lb. deadlifts, 20 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch
    185-lb. deadlifts, 25 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch
    205-lb. deadlifts, 30 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch
    225-lb. deadlifts, 35 reps
    15 box jumps, 20-inch

  3. #3
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    What have I gleamed from CrossFit? What does that even mean? Are you asking what have I learned from Crossfit or what has crossfit inspired in my own training?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    What have I gleamed from CrossFit? What does that even mean? Are you asking what have I learned from Crossfit or what has crossfit inspired in my own training?
    Exactly and what would you change.
    Of course being a dope, I posted this thread in the wrong forum, meant to do so in the CF one. Thanks for replying regardless.

    NscuLuke--Can I assume you are criticizing the work load to the lower back and the risk that poses?

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    Senior Member Paulo_Santos's Avatar
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    I would change a lot of things. Starting from some of the people running it, to the programming.

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    Tap, Rack, Bacon ncsuLuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFabsik View Post
    Exactly and what would you change.
    Of course being a dope, I posted this thread in the wrong forum, meant to do so in the CF one. Thanks for replying regardless.

    NscuLuke--Can I assume you are criticizing the work load to the lower back and the risk that poses?
    The point I was mainly trying to get at was the people who run HQ are a bunch of jackasses and especially when they program something like they did for this last open workout. Heavy deadlifts at high reps for speed along with box jumps is just asking for a catastrophic injury. It is one thing to have this as a regular WOD where people can scale and whatnot (although I still think it is a pretty stupid workout) but it is another to have it in a competition type atmosphere where you allow even the most incompetent lifters to be included and your weekend warrior might keep going hard for one more rep and sacrifice form and thus their back as well. I watched the live video of the workout demonstration and was cringing so hard at the rounded backs.

    It is really just a perfect example of what is wrong with CrossFit. They have an elitest mentality with no reason for being elitest considering a blindfolded monkey could throw darts at a wall of various movements and come up with a better/safer workout than that.

    I mean, this is the clown that runs the company, would you take workout advice from this guy seriously?



    I can go watch videos of Chris Mason lifting stupid amounts of weight so when he gives advice I listen. When Greg Glassman gives advice I laugh considering it looks like he doesn't even take care of his own health.

    And this is the guy who programs the workouts:



    Yeah, clearly he is someone I should listen to.

    Really all my beef is with the company itself and how it is run. The guys running the CrossFit gym I used to go to were great guys and knew their stuff. A good friend of mine runs a CrossFit gym that I would go to in a heartbeat if I lived close by because I know he knows his stuff. However, another gym I know of was just opened by a former coach at the gym I used to go to and he didn't know his ass from his elbow but he paid $1,000 for a level 1 cert and applied for affiliation and he is opening a gym. I wouldn't listen to that guys advice if you paid me but he is going to be responsible for others health and safety.

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    Well at times the leadership has done some odd or questionable things. On appearance, I agree they have a credibility issue, but when I've listened to most of their web content, they usually have something good to say and nothing too bat crazy.

    But a lot of the core ideas that have been promoted by HQ have really popularized a lot of ideas in fitness. I don't think they necessarily created a bunch of new principals, but put them together and made them accessable. Obviously a lot of the benchmark WODs are their creation. Overall, I feel CF in general has done more benefit than harm. Ideas that I think they have popularized well:

    1.) Avoiding Processed Food
    2.) Training basic lifts--hence bringing women to weight training and bringing a lot of people to powerlifting and weightlifting
    3.) Needing intensity to succeed.
    4.) Training all aspects of fitness and your weaknesses.

    But, I wish they would refine some things.
    1.) Have a basic strength program with their WOD, something that mirrors CrossFit Football but movement wise would be more inclusive of traditional CF movements.
    2.) Get rid of high rep box jumps and kipping pullups except for competition.
    3.) I'd probably keep the high rep oly lifts as long as load seems reasonable.

  8. #8
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFabsik View Post
    Exactly and what would you change.
    Of course being a dope, I posted this thread in the wrong forum, meant to do so in the CF one. Thanks for replying regardless.

    NscuLuke--Can I assume you are criticizing the work load to the lower back and the risk that poses?
    First off I give CrossFit two thumbs up. Its is incredible and almost mind boggling what they have done for the fitness community. They've gotten the soccer mom off the treadmill going hardcore in a warehouse. Where else will you see a sold out stadium giving a standing ovation for a woman doing a power clean? They have created a community that admires and respects strength and hard work. They also do a great job delegating out their coaching to experts for example louie simmons and Mike Burgener.

    It has motivated me to be a much healthier and fitter person. I used to be just be strong. Now I'm strong and fit. I can go hiking and camping without running out of breath.


    I would change the programming somewhat and some of the shit HQ puts out is what gives CrossFit a bad name. Here's a recent video they uploaded to youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EETyW-hx2hg Go to 1:44. That shit would not fly in my gym.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
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    Yeah, that was one ugly deadlift.
    In fairness to HQ, besides Dave Castro's ugly deadlift, I don't think they promote bad form with the understanding that maximal lifts won't always be pretty.

    I think we see ugly deads like that because there are just so many different boxes. Good boxes would nix that right away others would cheer it as the video did. I think this goes with other ugly lifts especially those seen in metcons. Those in good boxes would have their weights appropriately scaled and monitored to avoid it. Metcon mills might not care at all and just want to get as many people in as possible.

    I'm not sure how you'd fight the variance in boxes without losing the freedom to create they type of box they want. I'd still love to see them promote the Lvl 1 as an intro to CrossFit course and have a more viable level 2 focused at coaching.

  10. #10
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    There were quite a few deadlifts that looked pretty good there in that video too. Robert, would you like this discussion moved to the crossfit forum? It doesn't seem like its current location is restricting the discussion, but I will move it if you like.


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    Feel free to move to Crossfit forum. Sorry I goofed.

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    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    haha MetCon mill I like that term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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    Metcon Mill is a good term. I'll also steal that one.

    Few points.

    Point 1: I looked at the deadlift box jump workout and immediately pegged it as horrendous programming. But I still do some CrossFit competitions and was signed up for the open. And you know what? It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be just looking at it on paper. Not saying it's good, or a workout/test I'd ever program, but the ascending reps on the DL, and the box component, actually made sure you never were trying to lift anything close to your 1RM for time. I got 11 reps into the 315 deadlifts (using doubles and triples) with a 1RM around 475. My friends with 1RM around 400 didn't get passed the 275 and also ended up doing triples or less. That, and the fact that you can wear a belt, meant it wasn't as scary in terms of spinal integrity, or residual soreness, as I expected. As for the box jumps, any means of getting on and off the box was acceptable, so if you thought it was more efficient or were worried about your Achilles, you just did step ups.

    Point 2: Regarding the OPs question, what would I change, here are a few things off the top of my head:
    1) Banish high rep bouncing deadlift workouts
    2) Banish butterfly style kipping pullups, and relegate gymnastic kipping work to a much smaller role. Lots more strict pullups.
    3) Sprints. Add them.
    4) More unilateral work and lateral movement.
    5) More assistance work.

    probably more, but I'm trying to keep it short. Keep in mind this is all stuff good CrossFit gym owners already do, but HQ doesn't encourage this from the rest.

  14. #14
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    After 14.4 someone asked me. "Whats up with that Dave Castro Guy? Does he even crossfit?"

    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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    [QUOTE=Dave M.;2634863]Metcon Mill is a good term. I'll also steal that one.

    Point 2: Regarding the OPs question, what would I change, here are a few things off the top of my head:
    1) Banish high rep bouncing deadlift workouts
    2) Banish butterfly style kipping pullups, and relegate gymnastic kipping work to a much smaller role. Lots more strict pullups.
    3) Sprints. Add them.
    4) More unilateral work and lateral movement.
    5) More assistance work.

    QUOTE]

    I like all of the above.

    I'm amazed there hasn't been a "sprint based" work out program to be popularized yet since so many people point to sprinters as being so ripped and jacked. Including it makes sense if well balanced. Heck maybe you should start up sprintfit.com

    To me unilateral work is nice, but falls in the zone of assistance work or something to be done once the big stuff has been hit.

    I think I'd loosely define "assistance work" when programming to "spend 10 minutes on one weakness." OR "Spend 10 minutes on gymnastics..." The reason I say this is different folks have different weakness that assistance can address. For some doing extra upper body work might be useless until their "core" is up to par. You might even have it where you hit weakness A 3 times a week for the next two weeks then go to weakness B.

    Good ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    After 14.4 someone asked me. "Whats up with that Dave Castro Guy? Does he even crossfit?"

    lol
    I would hope so. In fairness to him he used to be more fit. Somewhere he was the video trainer model for a Seal fitness video for the general public.

    Also, running a giant company might make it hard to do so. Yet you'd still think he'd at least hit something daily.

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    I don't like Castro at all, but do give people like him and Glassman some slack for not being in amazing shape (or in any shape at all). I compare it to a football coach: he can be a big fat guy who was never very good at the game, but if he makes his team win then that's all that matters (not that there is such a clear metric for Castro and all, but you get my drift).

    As for assistance work, I think 10 minutes on "whatever you're weak on" is fine, but it makes people think you want skill work. Skill work is great but I want people to hit muscular assistance work, even isolation work. Heavy tricep work, hamstring work, core work, stuff like that. I've known a lot of CrossFitters with big glute, hamstring, tricep, and lat deficiencies. Faster to fix that with target assistance work instead of just more front squats, shoulder press, etc.

  18. #18
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    We do accessory work at my CF Gym often. Most often Tricep extensions, Band pull aparts, good mornings, reverse hypers and GHR's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    We do accessory work at my CF Gym often. Most often Tricep extensions, Band pull aparts, good mornings, reverse hypers and GHR's.
    Is that your powerlifting background influencing the training?

    There are several good boxes that do this type of planning, I just wish main page would ditch the limite WOD of the day and add some complexity to help address the individual.

  20. #20
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Ummm Kind of.

    high rep tricep extensions with bands to keep the elbows healthy.

    Band pull aparts because in CrossFit we do a fuck ton vertical and horizontal pressing. The band pull aparts are a great way to keep the shoulders healthy and balance by working the posterior deltoid.

    Good mornings because most people have weak lower backs.

    Reverse hyper again because most people have weak lower backs and in crossfit with all the squatting, deadlifting and oly lifting the lower back takes a beating and the RH offer not only offers strengthening but therapeutic benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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