The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Please Help Me Design My Westside Routine..

    Okay I have decided after much thought to give Westside a shot. No reason that I shouldnt try and ulitize all aspects of strength training etc.

    Seems VERY confusing so far though.

    Okay there is a Max Effort (ME) day for squat/deadlift and bench, and a dynamic day for bench and squat/deadlift?

    Something like this I guess.

    Day 1: ME Squat/Deadlift
    Day 2: Rest
    Day 3: ME Bench
    Day 4: Rest
    Day 5: Dynamic Squat/Deadlift
    Day 6: Rest
    Day 7: Dynamic Bench

    ME squat/deadlift
    Good Mornings work up to a max triple, then to a max single
    Pull Throughs 3 sets 8-10 reps
    Machine Crunches 3 sets 10-12 reps
    DB Side Bends 3 sets 4-8 reps
    Reverse Hyperextensions 3 sets 8-12 reps ... What do reverse hypers look like!!??

    ME bench
    Half Bench Presses work up to a max triple, then a max single
    Flat DB Flyes 3 sets of 5
    Skull Crushers 3 sets of 4-6 reps
    Seated V-bar Pulldowns 3 sets 5-8 reps
    One-arm DB Rows 3 sets 5-8 reps
    DB Hammer Curls 3 sets 5-8 reps
    One-arm DB Side Laterals 3 sets 8-10 reps *light*

    Dynamic squat/deadlift
    Speed Squats 10 sets of 2 reps at 50% 1RM
    Speed Deadlifts 6 singles of 60% 1RM
    Rack Pulls 3 sets 5-8 reps
    5-Second Paused Machine Crunches 3 sets 8-12 reps
    DB Side Bends 3 sets 4-8 reps
    Reverse Hypers 3 sets 6-8 reps

    Dynamic bench
    Speed Bench Presses 8 sets 3 reps @ 60% 1RM
    Dips 3 sets of 5
    Seated Skulls 3 sets 6-10 reps
    Curl-grip Chins 3 sets 5-8 reps
    Incline Underhand Rows 3 sets 5-8 reps
    Barbell Curls 3 sets 5-8 reps
    One-arm Cable Side Laterals 3 sets 8-10 reps *light*

    (1) Which exercises are taken to full muscular failure and which are not?
    (2) Are the assistance exercises and all that heavy or light or taken to failure or what? Help!
    (3) I am not going to be able to do floor presses and board presses and a few others - will this be a problem?
    (4) When does this routine change? When do I increase in weight? I am missing the structure or something... When should I change the exercises? When should I check my maxes etc.
    (5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?
    (6) For board presses for bench cant I just do half presses instead?
    (7) What are JM presses?
    (8) Does the days per week and all that ever change?
    (9) How long is one Westside cycle?
    (10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?
    (11) I am assuming that with speed bench and all that I am going to just go through the motions as fast as possible correct?

    Help guys!!
    Last edited by MonStar; 07-25-2002 at 01:53 AM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Kayak_boy's Avatar
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    Monstar, you are a crack up, you know that??

    How many routines is this you've tried??

    Well I haven't a clue on Westside, but best of luck with it.

  4. #3
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    Is it important for you to reject every suggestion I ever make, but then actually end up doing it anyway?

    It's ok though, because I just won the office pool on how long it would take you to drop your current push/pull routine AND the one on when you would get around to trying Westside!

    Now, I'm going to make another suggestion. Why not just have no routine, just do what you feel like, when you feel like it and that way, you never have to switch "routines" again? You might find you can stick with that for more than 3 weeks.

  5. #4
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    *positive Westside help only please*


  6. #5
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    Mike, this is positive help....

    Stop thinking about this crap so much. Do you think it really makes a difference? Without steroids, you're going to hit your genetic limit one way or another most likely, and in the end, you'll end up in a pine box anyway. Plus or minus 5lbs in the meantime doesn't really make much of a difference.

    Here's an idea: Try going in to the gym a few times a week and just lifting some good old fashion weight, eating normal food, and then get on with the rest of your life. It's sad to see you so freaking obsessed with bodybuilding.

    Try some volunteer work, it might make you feel better about yourself, and then you might find that your workout routine becomes secondary and you actually end up getting the results you've been looking for. In short, try less.

    Oh yeah, and throw away Supertraining and read some eastern philosophy instead. Your problem is not with your routine, it's with your state of mind.

    I think that's the best Westside advice you're ever going to get.

  7. #6
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post Marshall, but I am going to give Westside a shot. And I am looking for some responses that have to do with Westside, and Westside only.

    Anyway after rereading Adam's Westside article a few times I feel like I have gotten a LOT more out of it than before.

    So with the speed squat, dead, and bench you increase 5% each week and on the 4th week drop back down right? How long do you do this for before you test your 1RM again?

    For speed squats do I HAVE to use a box?

    Can I change all of my assistance exercises week to week? Would this be a good idea?

    What about my ME exercises? It seems good mornings are my best bet for ME squat/deadlift day, and some kind of press is best for ME bench day.

  8. #7
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Maybe for ME bench day Il do something like this.

    Incline BB Presses work up to 1RM
    Dips 3 sets 6-8 reps
    Skullcrushers 3 sets 5-6 reps
    Chins 3 sets
    DB Rows 3 sets
    BB Curls 3 sets
    Laterals 3 sets

    Anyways.. is it bad to add biceps work?

    I am *TOTALLY* confused with the entire exercises thing I mean should they change pretty regularly or what?

  9. #8
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Okay I just answered one of my questions in the last part of Adam's article. He says...

    On ME day you are training with the conjugated method. With this method you must rotate the ME exercise at most every 3rd week. The reason for this is because you will not get stronger after 3 weeks at or above 90% of your max, you will suffer either mental or physical burnout after about 3 weeks and your strength will actually go down.
    So basically for ME exercises after 3 weeks they change. Can you do good mornings, then maybe SLDLSs, then rack pulls, then go back to good mornings?

  10. #9
    Bmx Bandit McBain's Avatar
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    did you find the dave tate article at elitefts? i was doing that exactly, once you get the feel for it you can prolly swap whatever you wanted, i found that for me it was a really good starting block.
    'you cant avoid confrontation in life. it just makes things more trouble down the road. sometimes you have to look at the bull and say "f--k you bull" and grab that bull by the horns'

    -Shane

  11. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Mike - Promise me you'll stick with this for at least 9 weeks?

    See the 9 week routine at elitefts.com, and read everything over there. The periodization bible, part 2, explains pretty much exactly how to set this up.

    (1) Which exercises are taken to full muscular failure and which are not?

    You do ME lifts to a max rep. On days you use the repetition method for your ME lift, that is taken to failure.

    (2) Are the assistance exercises and all that heavy or light or taken to failure or what? Help!

    A rep or two shy. Still work hard, and still progress. (Some assistance stuff is taken to a 3 or 5 rep max)

    (3) I am not going to be able to do floor presses and board presses and a few others - will this be a problem?

    westside is pretty flexible. why can you not do them?

    (4) When does this routine change? When do I increase in weight? I am missing the structure or something... When should I change the exercises? When should I check my maxes etc.

    Check maxes at the beginning and then as you see fit (competition). 9 weeks is a good place to start. For ME, you want to try to set a new PR every time. Do ME stuff for 3 weeks, then switch. Assistance stuff can change anytime you like.. I like to keep it pretty constant until progression stalls or I find a weakness I need to work on, or get bored.

    (5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?

    Yes.

    (6) For board presses for bench cant I just do half presses instead?

    Half presses?

    (7) What are JM presses?

    a combination of a close grip bench and extension

    (8) Does the days per week and all that ever change?

    Nope.

    (9) How long is one Westside cycle?

    Forever. There are waves, but other than that, it isn't cycled, really. I'd go with a 9 week program at first to see how you do.

    (10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?

    After 9 weeks.

    (11) I am assuming that with speed bench and all that I am going to just go through the motions as fast as possible correct?

    Yes. You want to move the bar as fast as possible. 3 reps should take 3 seconds or less.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  12. #11
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    Originally posted by MarshallPenn
    Stop thinking about this crap so much.

    Here's an idea: Try going in to the gym a few times a week and just lifting some good old fashion weight, eating normal food, and then get on with the rest of your life.
    Well said.

    Rome wasn't built in a day man, it took CONSISTENT hard work. If you want to build a city, that's what it takes. It seems like you're trying to build a mobile home.

    I'll play devil's advocate here too, here's a site with tons of routines, give 'em a try!!

    http://weightrainer.virtualave.net/index.html


  13. #12
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Paul Stagg:

    Thank you very much for your post man I really really really appreciate it. I promise Ill stick it out for the 9 weeks, now hold me up to that man.

    See the 9 week routine at elitefts.com, and read everything over there. The periodization bible, part 2, explains pretty much exactly how to set this up.
    I saw the sample 9-week program and I didnt like their exercise selection and a few other things so I would end up changing that up big time.

    You do ME lifts to a max rep. On days you use the repetition method for your ME lift, that is taken to failure.
    Okay you max out on all of your max effort 1RM lifts that makes sense. Please elaborate on the repetition method for ME lifts.. I am totally confused here.

    And dont you use 75% of your max on dynamic days after all of the speed sets to work on dynamic speed with heavy weight or something like that?

    (5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?

    Yes.
    Okay should I test my squat or deadlift 1RM first? Because whichever I do first is going to seriously impact the other's poundage. If I start with a 450 lbs. squat and then try and go for a 400 lbs. deadlift I dont think its going to happen because my lower back will be fried. Also do I go ahead with a regular ME day after these 1RMs or no? Like I do all my assistance work, correct?

    Also about oblique work what else can I do because I dont feel like thickening up my waistline and all that.

    (10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?

    After 9 weeks.
    So on ME days after 9 weeks Ill just test my bench and squat and all that to see how I have improved?

  14. #13
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Another question...

    Should I test my 1RM on speed days or max effort days? And should I do them at the same time after 9 weeks go by.

  15. #14
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    Also about oblique work what else can I do because I dont feel like thickening up my waistline and all that.
    If you don't want to thicken your waistline, powerlifting is not for you.

  16. #15
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    I just dont want a 40 inch waistline thats all, that doesnt mean that I dont want to give Westside a shot. And Ill never be a full blown powerlifter anyway so I am not going to get into that discussion now.

  17. #16
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Otter


    If you don't want to thicken your waistline, powerlifting is not for you.
    ???? Powerlifting won't thicken the waistline.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
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  18. #17
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    Originally posted by Belial
    ???? Powerlifting won't thicken the waistline.
    Ok, maybe not the waistline in terms of pant waist size, but with all the wide stance box squatting and such, won't you get thicker around the hips? I did. My pants fit funny now, they are tighter around my hips so they get all scrunched around my waist. That all started when I started box squatting.

  19. #18
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Heavy squatting, especially powerlifting style (wider stance), and deadlifting tends to be heavy on the glutes and lower back. So they'll grow. Honestly, Monstar, I think trying westside is your worst idea yet. I liked the whole back to basics thing.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  20. #19
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    I understand that powerlifting movements can be heavy on the lower back and glutes and all that - that makes sense to me but just thickening the waistline I dont understand.

    I am just giving it a shot B, if I dont like it you know that Ill go right back to the basics.

    It seems to be OKAY so far I mean not too bad. Why do you have such a problem with it B? Do you think its ineffective or do you just not care for the whole idea?

  21. #20
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I think westside is a great program. But I don't think it's going to help you meet your goals. Body composition needs to take a back seat in a program like that. Not that it can't get you big, given enough time, but it's not ideal for it.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  22. #21
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Belial:

    Yeah I understand that maybe its not completely a hypertrophy specific program.. but I think it would be extremely effective for strength gains and all of that wouldnt it? It seems that strength and size go hand in hand.

    My goals of decreased bodyfat will come with proper dieting, not necessarily the program that I am using. And increased muscular size will come with time too I believe.

  23. #22
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    Originally posted by Belial
    Heavy squatting, especially powerlifting style (wider stance), and deadlifting tends to be heavy on the glutes and lower back. So they'll grow. Honestly, Monstar, I think trying westside is your worst idea yet. I liked the whole back to basics thing.
    But that wide stance also invokes a lot of hip involvement along with the glutes, low back, and hams, which all in turn will thicken your middle (in a positive way of course).

    I agree with B, Westside is not your bag. It's a constant progressive routine, and probably not one you'll stick with ... judging only by past performance. Looking at your original routine, you have too much assistance work in there. You're trying to turn Westside into a bodybuilding routine, and it isn't.

    Stick to the basics. Lift, eat, sleep, repeat. That's the best routine available.

  24. #23
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Okay thanks a lot Otter. I can tell that I was trying to make Westside a bodybuilding routine, when it is not. That makes sense to me. Maybe I wont give WSB a shot afterall.

  25. #24
    Genetic Experiment GeneticallyGifted's Avatar
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    OMG....OMG...OMG....OMG!!!!!!

    YOU ARE CRAZY!!! LITERALLY A LUNEY TOON! WHY NOT JUST INJECT MILLIONS OF CU's OF STERIODS AND DIREUTICS(SP). SO THAT YOU GET THE GAINS THAT YOU WANT.IT WON'T MATTER WHAT ROUTINE YOU DO, AND HOW LONG YOU DO IT.

    WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING TO HAPPEN THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR WORK OUT EVERY OTHER WEEK?

    YOU GIVE OUT PROMISES LIKE THEY ARE FOOD STAMPS!! STOP MAKING PROMISES...JUST SAY THAT YOU WILL TRY!! YOUR WORD MUST BE SH*T WITH ALOT OF PEOPLE...MAN, GET IT TOGETHER.

    IF SH*T WORKS DON'T FIX IT!

    sorry for the outburst but I just don't understand what is going on with you. Maybe the reason you aren't seeing the gains that you want is because you are not patient, and don't stick to one workout. Where is your girlfriend...I need to tell her to put the SMACK down on you.

    I like you but you startin' to get to me.

    GG
    Formly Known As AFreakyMutation
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  26. #25
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I didn't like the 9 week selection at first either.

    Your routine has too much stuff in it. Read Tate's periodization article, and follow that program design if you don't like the 9 week program.

    Sometimes, for your ME bench, you'll do high rep (20) dumbell work. Those sets are taken to failure.

    After your DE work, SOMETIMES you do heavy singles or doubles. They used to suggest 10% of your sets. I do every other week. Look through Adam's journal and latty's journal to see what they do. These sets are not a strain.

    Test the squat max alone, then the following week, test the deadlift max - OR - just test all three in one day, take a couple of days off, and start the program. You need to know your bench and squat max... the deadlift you can estimate and be OK.

    You can't look at this program worried about what you will look like. Do assistance stuff you need to improve your lifts.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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