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Thread: Natural and gear-free Westside

  1. #1
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    Westside in the Raw

    How effective can Westside be without using gear (shirts, briefs, suits, etc...) or gear (AS)? All the articles I read mention shirts and other gear. My question is this ... I don't want to use any gear, I want to lift raw, but can Westside be effective in this way? Doing all the board presses and floor presses and such improves your lockout, which is great, but I'm concerned that without using a shirt that I will develop a sticking point off my chest. Will the speed work on DE day eliminate that problem? Same concerns with the squat, I won't be using a suit or briefs or anything and I want to make sure I can maintain power in the hole. Will the speed work take care of that?

    WS seems like a great program and I've already consulted Benchmonster on the routine I've built, but wanted a couple opinions on the benefits/drawbacks of training Westside raw.

    BTW, I don't plan on competing right now, just mainly focused on getting my poundages up.

    Thx!
    Last edited by Otter; 08-13-2002 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
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    I too was concearned with this as I have just recently starting training Westside PL'ing and do not use a suit or shirt. I think it is perfectly fine to not use a suit or shirt, but eventually their use will be more necessary and beneficial once the/your 1RM loads get really really heavy... I don't plan on buying a shirt for at least the next 9 months.

  3. #3
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I'm trainig Westside, lift raw, and am drug free.

    I plan to compete in September. I'll let you know how it goes.

    I've just added in more full ROM lifts on ME Bench day, and more squats on ME Squat day. I also do more chest work.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
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  4. #4
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
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    The westside program is tailored by each individual to his or her own individual weaknesses. If you use a shirt you will want to do more lockout type exercises, cause if you are wearing a shirt that fits right, then the lockout will almost always be the weak point.

    If you are going raw, then you may have a different weak point. Just make sure you are improving weaknesses and bar speed, change exercises every week, and you have it made.

    Regarding AS. The program works for everyone. If you had identical twins doing the program for a year, and one juiced and the other one did not, then of course the guy on juice will be stronger than the other one, but they will both be much stronger than they were a year earlier.

    Hope this helps. There are many drug free lifters that use Westside, AKA the conjugate method. Not too many raw guys use it, but there are not many raw guys around, period.

    Oh, and by the way, I can do more raw now, than I could wearing a shirt before I started Westside training, and I care nothing about my raw max, so it will make your raw stronger even if that is not what you are shooting for. Hope this helps.

    B.

  5. #5
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    IMO, you have to get your raw lifts up to get your equipped lifts to go up.

    It's just going to be a matter of how much the training improves the equipped lift vs the raw lift.

    The drug issue basically just affects volume. I try to keep volume in check, and don't do extra workouts (and limit GPP). Someone using AAS can probably include a lot more extra workouts, and probably get further faster.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  6. #6
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    Good info, thanks fellas.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    IMO, you have to get your raw lifts up to get your equipped lifts to go up.

    It's just going to be a matter of how much the training improves the equipped lift vs the raw lift.

    The drug issue basically just affects volume. I try to keep volume in check, and don't do extra workouts (and limit GPP). Someone using AAS can probably include a lot more extra workouts, and probably get further faster.

    That is not neccesarily true, I have talked some powerlifters who say that there equipped lift went up , but their Raw lift went down. But most of the Time I agree that, they both go up.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    I'm trainig Westside, lift raw, and am drug free.

    I plan to compete in September. I'll let you know how it goes.

    I've just added in more full ROM lifts on ME Bench day, and more squats on ME Squat day. I also do more chest work.
    How/why are u doing full ROM lifts on ME days... I thought that the whole reason westside works is by rotationg partial ROM lifts every 1 to 3 weeks to overcome the neural adaption/fatigue of which results when you do full ROM lifts week after week at near-maximal loads.

  9. #9
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    He's doing more full range movements becuse he's not using the shirt to help off the bottom. If his body doesn't get any work at full range, he won't perform well at full range. And the idea isn't so much the nervous system wearing down from full range movements, but from always using the same movement.

  10. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Yup.

    I don't ever ME bench or squat a competition bench or squat.

    My ME Bench lifts are:
    Close grips
    Incline close grips
    Floor press
    rack lockouts
    Inclines

    I would toss in 1 or 2 board presses as well at some point.

    *most* of the work, though, doesn't artificially shorten the ROM (Close grips, incline close grips, inclines), I do florr presses because my sticking point is very close to where a floor press stops, and I did the lockouts to train my lockout.

    ME squat is almost always a full ROM - low box squats, deads stadning on a 2 inch box, GMs, etc. I have deadlifts off pins once in the last 7 weeks.. but no partial squat movements. Again, the top of my squat ain't the issue, it's getting out of the hole.

    You have to tailor WS training to your individual needs, and it takes a while (or at least took me a while) to figure out what your weaknesses are and how to fix them. I still challenge myself to do the things I hate to do, as those tend to be the things I'm also not good at.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  11. #11
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    Ok, thanks for explaining.

  12. #12
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Paul, i found that doing extra workouts helps my recovery alot. I dont do alot but i do band pushdowns for a 100reps once or twice a week and with my new job i do sort of Gpp work for my posterior and those muslces are recovery pretty good now even with minamal sleep. Main thing is not to rush extra workouts and make them short and easy
    Best Meet @ Lifts@181:...............Best gym lifts
    Squat...- 403..........................Squat....- 395 w/belt
    Bench...- 303..........................Bench....- 300....Paused in meet - 281
    Deadlift.- 503.....Unofficial 513...Deadlift..- 490
    Total....- 1,203...IPF Class II......All done raw, Touch'n go bench

    "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Robert F. Kennedy

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