The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 25 of 25

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Senior Member lick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    535
    is this as effective as doing bench presses on a regular bench? ive been using the smith lately because im not benching that heavy yet, and i work out by myself, so i figure the smith is better because i can work till failure without having to drop the barbell that happened once, and damn was it embarrassing. but im asking because i seem to remember feeling better after a regular bench...thanks...

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    YEMIN
    Posts
    0
    I would say it's a smart choice if you don't feel comfortable using a regular bar, but work in some dbells also....
    I'm back, bet most of you don't even know my name!

  4. #3
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,324
    If you have a choice I would suggest the barbell or the dumbell approach.
    If you don't have the choice you have to do with what ya got
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10
    When I first started working out I never used freeweights because I didn't have anyone to train with. But then I started doing a lot of dumbell work and have enjoyed the results. It takes a little practice at first to get the dumbells into position (use your legs to help push them up, depending on the exercise). Plus if you fail in the middle of a rep they're a lot easier to put down then a bar!

  6. #5
    Shut up n Lift!!!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Hacienda hts, Ca
    Posts
    26
    yea try the bumdbell aproach first and see if you like it. Me i do both DB and Bar. Or try the bench again but this time not as much weight, go slow. Thats what i do i train by myself and if i know i need a spot i call my bro to spot me hehe.

  7. #6
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    10,963
    I would train with the smith if you have no spotter... remember you need to push yourself to your limits and you canlt do this on freeweight with no spotter !

    However I train alone but always ask people in the gym for spots.. So I do free weight bench as it feels much more natural.

  8. #7
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,669
    is this as effective as doing bench presses on a regular bench?

    ** No.

    ive been using the smith lately because im not benching that heavy yet, and i work out by myself, so i figure the smith is better because i can work till failure without having to drop the barbell that happened once, and damn was it embarrassing. but im asking because i seem to remember feeling better after a regular bench...thanks...

    ** I would use DBs. I suggest only using the Smith machine when you want to move the weight in a straight line, which is rare... tends to only be very short movements, like shrugs, calf raises, etc.

  9. #8
    Slowly Getting larger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    46
    i only have access to a smith bench where i workout thats why i use dumbells ,i will say i did get pretty thick from using the smith machine but i really dont like it
    Many things in life will catch your eye,few will catch your heart...Pursue those

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    121
    I HATE the smith machine. i hate the movement i hate the look of it, i hate the name of it lol no its not that bad but i do hate it and i do recomend asking someone for a spot or using DB
    LESS IS MORE

  11. #10
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30
    The Smith Machine impedes or all together negates the development of the accessory and "stabilizer" muscles that are developed when you bench press that are also very important for other movements and upper body development. The Smith Machine beats a caved in chest, but move on as soon as you're confident. In the meantime, knock out those dumbbell presses.

  12. #11
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Northern England
    Posts
    2,028
    Incline Smith machines presses ...... they can't be beat !!!
    * * * * * * * * *
    Yates

    hard core n. 1 irreducible nucleus. 2 colloq. a the most committed members of a society


    'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind'

  13. #12
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,669
    They can't be beat for wrecking shouldrs and creating strength imbalances?




  14. #13
    MACHINE
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    on the short bus
    Posts
    0
    I like to mix them in once in a while. Every 3rd workout or so.

  15. #14
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    I'm with yates. I do like to do incline smith presses. They don't feel to bad or unatural for me, quite comfortable infact. I would never do flat smith bench though.

    I don't do smith machine presse to often though, but only cause i train with a partner...
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  16. #15
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Northern England
    Posts
    2,028
    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    They can't be beat for wrecking shouldrs and creating strength imbalances?



    didn't do Dorian Yates any harm now did they !!!
    * * * * * * * * *
    Yates

    hard core n. 1 irreducible nucleus. 2 colloq. a the most committed members of a society


    'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind'

  17. #16
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,669
    Well, we don't know.

    The injuries that result from the SM tend to be long term.

    I'm not saying don't ever do them, I'm just saying you are going to be much better off if you don't use them as a core lift in your routine.

    I don't want you guys to not be able to do any pressing in 5 years because you've destroyed your shoulders or injured yourself due to a strength imbalance.

  18. #17
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30
    Doing Incline Smith is definitely preferred to doing Flat Smith as in Incline Pressing the correct plane of motion is much more accurately achieved doing Smith. HOWEVER, there's a big difference in Flat Presses. There are 2 schools of how to correctly Bench Press(for Strength and Injury Avoidance): (1) "Reverse C" or "J arc" which you move the weight from lower chest to closer to the head during the ascent---this clearly can not be dublicated on the Smith, and (2) Shoulder Blades together, elbows in, forearms vertical with a tight arc in your back. This teqhniue moves the the weight in a straight plane, but not necessarily perfectly perpindicular to the ground (using this method on the Smith will usually have you redirecting your ascent plane).

    The Smith leaves you with the option of completely perpindicular movement, elbows out (awkwardly exposing your front delts & minimizing the role your lats/back should play), which over time leads to, as Paul put it, "wrecking shoulders and creating strength imbalances".

    Learn to bench correctly (when you do, you will never feel comfortable flat pressing on the Smith heavy), and save the Smith for incline only.

  19. #18
    Wannabebig Bastard Cédric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Quebec city, Canada
    Posts
    27
    Don't forget that variety is the key...would be the best to work with the smith the dumbells and BB...

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30
    Taken from "Muscle Moxie" by Kerri Fanelli:

    [With the array of equipment available, it can be difficult to choose the right one. Bob Fanelli, clinical director of the Cardiac Rehab at St. Johns Riverside Hospital, suggests getting off the machines entirely. According to Fanelli, machines balance the weight for you. By doing that, the key stabilizer muscles often aren't worked and your body does not burn as many calories since it doesn't have to do the extra work necessary to balance the weight.

    Emphasize compound, multijoint exercises such as the squat, lunge, bench press, overhead press and bent-over row. These exercises activate almost every muscle in your body at different stages of the movement; thus they're big-time calorie burners]

  21. #20
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,590
    Something the good Doctor fails to mention is that if the machines do not use as many stabilizer muscles then they must allow you to focus more on the muscles you intend to work. This greater intensity of focus can allow for more fiber recruitment in the target muscles.

  22. #21
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,669
    The drawback to hitting the target muscle and leaving out the stabilizers:

    Strength imbalance between the target and stabilizers.

    If you RELY on a machine to do a movement, then switch to a BB or DB version of the movement, the strength imbalnace can lead to injury. The lack of strength in the stabilizers can also lead to injury on the field (if you are an athelete), or in regular life.

    I'm not saying you should never use machines, I'm just indicating there can be a negative where there is a postitive.

    Just keep that in mind.

  23. #22
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30
    I agree with Paul, I posted it that article primarily as it applies to the Smith Machine. DB's are a much better & safer way of isolating the chest than the Smith. In fact the Smith BP probably does as much or more to isolate your front delts as it does your chest---which is not a good thing with the weight it takes to overload your chest.
    I use machines for leg curls/extension, lat pulls, and tricep presses, but there is no way I would substitute machines for my core movements: BP, Squats, DL's, Military...because in part of what the article states, and also because I am concerned with safely pursuing my absolute strength limits.

  24. #23
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,590
    Paul, I must disagree with your point. There are, and have been many college and professional level sports teams (football, basketball etc.) whose training rooms have primarily only machines or solely machines. Training for an athletic event is very sport specific. The movements you perform in a gym will make you stronger, but they do not mimic sports movements (unless of course your sport involves weightlifting). So, to say that you will experience injuries on the field due to less stress being placed on stabilizer muscles is unfounded. There is also the indirect effect, when you train a large muscle the smaller muscles nearest to it, and the whole body to a lesser degree, will grow from the exercise. This is why a squat only program will build the entire body (obviously not as well as if you trained the entire body). To say that the stabilizer muscles are not involved is also incorrect, there are still stabilizer muscles involved in a machine exercise, just not to the same degree as a free weight exercise. One last note to clarify previous statements. The kind of injury that you are referring to would not result from the use of exercise machines. Muscle imbalances that lead to serious injury are normally due to major imbalances between opposing muscle groups such as the quads and hamstrings.

  25. #24
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,669
    We are allowed to disagree.

    Yes, most serious injuries are due to major imbalances, but it is my opinion that a lack of stabilizer work can lead to injuries on the field.

    Many of those same training facilities/programs that rely on machines ALSO focus on training of stabilizers in other ways (Jamie LaBelle is an excellent example of a strength coach who does this).

    Your average dude in the gym relying on machines for the core of his work is not also doing work on his stabilizers... and if you compare him to someone relying on free weight movements, which is more likely to get hurt during the company softball game. My money will go on the machine trainee.

    I don't think there is any substantive study that goes into this subject, so all we really have are opinions.

  26. #25
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,590
    Fair enough, I still disagree with you, but I respect your thoughts on the subject and don't have any substantive evidence.

Similar Threads

  1. Smith Machine bench with 1RM chart
    By Terps1781 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-28-2004, 04:04 PM
  2. Moving from a Smith machine to regular bench
    By Focused70 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-05-2004, 01:08 PM
  3. Bench on smith?
    By League in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 10-29-2003, 11:47 AM
  4. Bench Press - Smith machine or free?
    By RikoRed in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-02-2002, 08:15 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •