The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
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    HST principles for Westside assistance work

    training westside currently.. and i'm wondering how and if it would be possible to incorporate HST principles into the westside assistance work... basically only for the upper body exercises which are hit 1 to 2 times per week (depending on muscle/group).

    Would it work to use the 15RM, 10RM, 5RM microcycle within my westside assistance work... on the traditional HST method, 1 to 2 sets are used each session, three times (days) per week. since most of the assistance work is only performed twice per week (per muscle), what would be the ideal set amount... 3 to 4 sets?

    I would be training primarily westside with the four days per week (ME S, ME B, DE S, DE B) and would of course leave the ME and DE exercise and methods alone.. but what I'm talkin about is using HST for the assistance work.. is this possible from a scientific/physiological point of view? All you westside and HST gurus ?

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  3. #2
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    The point of assistance work is to make the target muscles stronger (usually through a certain range of motion), not hypertrophy. You may as well say "screw the assistance work" if you're going to go HST with it. That's missing the whole point.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
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  4. #3
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Why would you want to do that? What are you trying to accomplish.

    Don't make it more complicated than it has to be.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  5. #4
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    I'm only vaguely familiar with Westside, so take the following with a large grain of salt:

    I see no point.

    One, since your only working the assistance exercises once or twice a week you're violating one of the fundamental principles of HST, which is sufficient frequency.

    Two, I assume the point of the assistance work is to increase strength in areas that are weak links in the DL, bench, and squat. HST is geared primarily towards hypertrophy, not strength.

    Still, I'd suggest running it by Bryan Haycock over at the HST forums as it might result in an interesting discussion. The forums are at:
    www.hypetrophy-specific.com

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesnít realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  6. #5
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Blood&Iron
    I'm only vaguely familiar with Westside, so take the following with a large grain of salt:

    I see no point.

    One, since your only working the assistance exercises once or twice a week you're violating one of the fundamental principles of HST, which is sufficient frequency.

    Two, I assume the point of the assistance work is to increase strength in areas that are weak links in the DL, bench, and squat. HST is geared primarily towards hypertrophy, not strength.
    Exactly. Incompatible training systems, each one running essentially at cross purposes to the other.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  7. #6
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
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    I think it is a bad idea if you are trying to become a stronger powerlifter. The assistance work is very important in a Westside program.

    I also think it is a bad idea if you are trying to induce hypertrophy (become a bodybuilder) as it would make more sense to just train like a bodybuilder if that is what you are wanting to become.

    That being said. If you are not competitive in either sport, try it and see what happens. Who knows? You may revolutionize both strength gaining, and hypertrophy. Although I have my doubts about this program you are considering, I have not tried it, so I cannot say with absolute certainty it won't work.

    But if you posted this looking for opinions, I think you would be better off deciding if you want to be a powerlifter, or if you want to be a bodybuilder, and then train accordingly.

    B.

  8. #7
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I'm not sure he was talking about using the M-W-F of HST, but rather the periodized approach of 15RM-10RM-5RM-Negatives for assistance work on each given day.

    If that's the case, then I see no problem at all with it, except that you might notice some detrimental effects if you do negatives for assistance in conjunction with maximal effort movements.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  9. #8
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    Ok, wow.. lots of replies

    First off, I'm currently PRIMARILY a PL'er. However, the westside assistance work IS NOT performed with strength being the primary goal... it utilizes the repetition method (slightly modified meaning no failure work) and is designed to induce HYPERTROPHY (www.elitefts.com if you don't believe me) which in turn results in strength increases (the larger the cross-sectional area, the stronger the muscle... regardless of neural aspects).

    The westside assistance work IS already somewhat similiar to HST being that it is for hypertrophy (first and foremost) and utilizes sub-failure loads... Note that the entire westside routine forms the conjugate method which IS for strength primarily, but the assistance work itself is for hypertrophy primarily.

    And yes PowerMan was correct, I did not mean use the M-W-F of HST, I'm only talking about the one third "slice" of westide that is assistance work (the ME and DE methods/work make up the other two "slices" of the pie to form the complete conjugate method...)

    Sorry, it is my fault that I did not be more specific.

    And I of course would not be doing any negatives or anything like that...

    Also, I did run this by the HST forums and have gotten a partial thumbs up ... the only hurdle right now that they have mentioned is the fact that the ME and DE work might cause problems with the HST assistance work... I don't think it will, because the traditional westside assistance work is not THAT much different from HST....

    yes the traditional westside assistance work only hits each assistance exercise/muscle once or twice a week (depends on which muscle we are talking about) and HST hits each exercise three times per week... well its all about the principle of volume... on HST you would have 2 sets on each exercise x 3 sessions per week to = 6 total sets per week... well on westide, all I would have todo is use 3 sets per exercise x 2 sesssions per week to = 6 total sets....

    Basically I was told that if I want to try this, I should do exactly what I've said and apply HST load increases and use the 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM micro cycle....

  10. #9
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    The way I'm thinking, for example on ME bench day, one week you'd do 15's for triceps, delts, and lats. The next week (or two weeks later, if you want to be truer to HST), you'd do 10's for those groups; then 5's, etc etc.

    Westside already recommends changing the stimuli regularly, so there's no reason using HST's organization wouldn't be effective.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  11. #10
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    The way I'm thinking, for example on ME bench day, one week you'd do 15's for triceps, delts, and lats. The next week (or two weeks later, if you want to be truer to HST), you'd do 10's for those groups; then 5's, etc etc.

    Westside already recommends changing the stimuli regularly, so there's no reason using HST's organization wouldn't be effective.
    my thoughts as well thnx for the input.

  12. #11
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    Another reason that the lighter weights are effective w/HST is through the use of deconditioning. The question is, if one merges the two systems, would the ME days reduce the effectiveness of the lighter weights ability to induce hypertrophy?

  13. #12
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Why would they?
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  14. #13
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    ya.. why would they

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