The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    No me llames cerdo... EdgarMex's Avatar
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    Deadlifts and back

    I was going over some old posts in the training section a saw several threads where it is recommended not to do deadlifts on back day, yet all 3 WBB routines put deadlifts on this day. Since I'm using a routine based on WBB 1, I am doing deadlifts on the same day I do back (well, I just started last week anyway) and I'm also doing SLDL on legs day.

    My question is, should I keep them on back day, move them to another day (which one would be the better choice) or just forget about them (I'll probably get more than one flame for just even mentioning this)?

    My routines is

    Monday - Chest-Tris-Shoulder
    Tuesday - Rest/Cardio-Abs
    Wednesday - Legs
    Thursday - Rest/Cardio-Abs
    Friday - Back-Bis

    Thanks for your comments
    Edgar V.

    So you don't wanna get big, do you?


    ----------------------------------------

    "If your arm measurement is currently 13 inches, you are worrying about the wrong things. Quit comparing to others, quit worrying about little details, get your ass in the gym, work as hard as you can, then go eat something. Repeat until huge." - Paul Stagg

    "There is no miracle "look good" diet/pill other than determination and commitment" - geoffgarcia

    "Freaking lift to get bigger, or stronger, or better at your damn sport, and quit worrying about weather or not your arm is 16 inches or 16.2 inches." - Paul Stagg

    "If you want to look like Brad Pitt go run a marathon or something." - Severed Ties

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  3. #2
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Don't drop them, just do them on their own day. Now the problem arises, how do you do deads on their own day and not affect your other training days.

  4. #3
    No me llames cerdo... EdgarMex's Avatar
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    So we're back to square 1, huh? lol

    How about moving legs to Tuesday, Cardio/Rest top Wednesday and Deads to Thursday. Or I could do cardio, abs and deads on Thursday and take Wednesday off.

    Also, how many sets and how many reps per set would you recommend on each scenario?

    Comments please.
    Last edited by EdgarMex; 08-21-2002 at 03:15 PM.
    Edgar V.

    So you don't wanna get big, do you?


    ----------------------------------------

    "If your arm measurement is currently 13 inches, you are worrying about the wrong things. Quit comparing to others, quit worrying about little details, get your ass in the gym, work as hard as you can, then go eat something. Repeat until huge." - Paul Stagg

    "There is no miracle "look good" diet/pill other than determination and commitment" - geoffgarcia

    "Freaking lift to get bigger, or stronger, or better at your damn sport, and quit worrying about weather or not your arm is 16 inches or 16.2 inches." - Paul Stagg

    "If you want to look like Brad Pitt go run a marathon or something." - Severed Ties

  5. #4
    Banned
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    there's valid arguments for doing it on back day, leg day, traps day, etc.

    Bottom line: I believe that the primary target is actually glutes on deadlifts . . . It DOES work your back. Just not your lats. Deads work your Erector Spinae, Traps, Levator Scaps and Rhomboids as stabilizers for the movement. And because these muscles are usually proportionally weaker than your glutes (which are structurally large in proportion) then they get worked hard just being stabilizers.

    Generally I think the other key reason for deads on back day is that there is already one major compound and/or powerlifting move on most other days.... Squats take care of you on leg day, bench does you on chest day... Deads kinda make sense for back day in that context.

  6. #5
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    I would agree with deads on back day, but I would argue that you should only accompany them with chins. I think doing deads and then moving on to rows is detrimental.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Do you guys think style of deadlift plays a role? For instance would you only do sumo deads on back day, and sldl's on leg day?I personally only do sumo's and I do them on back day.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  8. #7
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    I would agree with deads on back day, but I would argue that you should only accompany them with chins. I think doing deads and then moving on to rows is detrimental.
    How? Deads don't do lats. Rows do lats.

    Granted chins are BETTER for lats than rows, but where's the conflict with deads? I don't get it.

  9. #8
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Rows will also hit your traps.

  10. #9
    No me llames cerdo... EdgarMex's Avatar
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    My current back workout is:

    Wide grip pulldowns
    Deadlifts
    Bentover rows
    Shrugs

    Like I said before, I took this from WBB #1, what changes would you suggest, or is it ok as it is?
    Edgar V.

    So you don't wanna get big, do you?


    ----------------------------------------

    "If your arm measurement is currently 13 inches, you are worrying about the wrong things. Quit comparing to others, quit worrying about little details, get your ass in the gym, work as hard as you can, then go eat something. Repeat until huge." - Paul Stagg

    "There is no miracle "look good" diet/pill other than determination and commitment" - geoffgarcia

    "Freaking lift to get bigger, or stronger, or better at your damn sport, and quit worrying about weather or not your arm is 16 inches or 16.2 inches." - Paul Stagg

    "If you want to look like Brad Pitt go run a marathon or something." - Severed Ties

  11. #10
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Most "back" workouts are really lat workouts. I would work deadlifts whenever you want to hit the lower back. I work lower back with lower body. Deads fit in well when you are training hams, hips, glutes, etc.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  12. #11
    No me llames cerdo... EdgarMex's Avatar
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    I'm already doing SLDL when I do legs, I guess I could alterante them, one week do SLDL and the next regular DL
    Edgar V.

    So you don't wanna get big, do you?


    ----------------------------------------

    "If your arm measurement is currently 13 inches, you are worrying about the wrong things. Quit comparing to others, quit worrying about little details, get your ass in the gym, work as hard as you can, then go eat something. Repeat until huge." - Paul Stagg

    "There is no miracle "look good" diet/pill other than determination and commitment" - geoffgarcia

    "Freaking lift to get bigger, or stronger, or better at your damn sport, and quit worrying about weather or not your arm is 16 inches or 16.2 inches." - Paul Stagg

    "If you want to look like Brad Pitt go run a marathon or something." - Severed Ties

  13. #12
    chronic overtrainer
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    I do deads mostly on back day, but once in a while I'll do them with sholuders (thanks Belial). The important thing is to do them. I end my back day with deads. Nice and heavy. I suppose one could do them on leg day, but I prefer giving my all to squats and after that I don't think I have enough left for properly doing deads. I wouldn't want to risk an injury do deads after being depleated from squats. This seems to be one of the great debates in training, as is arguing for trap work on back versus shoulder day. The same quandry exsist for deads- back or leg day. As belial suggested try them on shoulder day with this smaller muscle group. just my $.02
    Cortisol is the enemy.

    Remember, it is not whether you win or lose, it's how good you look playing the game.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    Deads work your lats...well kinda...but anyway. I od them with back, primarily because, yeah, there's big compound movements on all other days, and yeah, they do work your back too.

  15. #14
    No me llames cerdo... EdgarMex's Avatar
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    What do you think of this split?

    Monday - Chest/Tris
    Tuesday - Shoulders/DLs
    Wednesday - Cardio/Abs
    Thursday - Legs
    Friday - Back/Bis
    Saturday - Rest
    Sunday - Rest
    Edgar V.

    So you don't wanna get big, do you?


    ----------------------------------------

    "If your arm measurement is currently 13 inches, you are worrying about the wrong things. Quit comparing to others, quit worrying about little details, get your ass in the gym, work as hard as you can, then go eat something. Repeat until huge." - Paul Stagg

    "There is no miracle "look good" diet/pill other than determination and commitment" - geoffgarcia

    "Freaking lift to get bigger, or stronger, or better at your damn sport, and quit worrying about weather or not your arm is 16 inches or 16.2 inches." - Paul Stagg

    "If you want to look like Brad Pitt go run a marathon or something." - Severed Ties

  16. #15
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Callahan
    there's valid arguments for doing it on back day, leg day, traps day, etc.

    Bottom line: I believe that the primary target is actually glutes on deadlifts . . . It DOES work your back. Just not your lats. Deads work your Erector Spinae, Traps, Levator Scaps and Rhomboids as stabilizers for the movement. And because these muscles are usually proportionally weaker than your glutes (which are structurally large in proportion) then they get worked hard just being stabilizers.

    Generally I think the other key reason for deads on back day is that there is already one major compound and/or powerlifting move on most other days.... Squats take care of you on leg day, bench does you on chest day... Deads kinda make sense for back day in that context.
    for realla my skrilla

  17. #16
    Canadian Kid fevan's Avatar
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    I have had the same problem with some people telling me to do them on back day and others say on leg day. So this is what I did, I sepparated me legs like my arms. I always did tris and bies on different days.
    So I put back and hams together and i do DL on this day.
    And squat on quad day.
    Deal with it.

  18. #17
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    to a degree it depends on how you deadlift as well.

    some people when they dead, there legs are about parrell. but if you have longer arms then you are going to start far more upright, so your legs will do like 1/4 squat motion instead.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

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