The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Oh sh*t, I almost forgot. If America declared Spanish as another official language, (canada has french/english) maybe that would help no?
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  2. #27
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Thank you, John. I think we agree that people need to make an effort when they get here, and try to stay out of communication-heavy jobs until then.

    I am NOT pro-PC-everything. Anyone who knows me can attest to that. So I do agree that the CA situation you described was truly "run amuk." Still, I can't help but wonder why some parents wouldn't see the influx of Spanish culture as plus. Becoming bilingual while still in grade school? That's a blessing!! Diversity and new cultural experiences for their children? Enriching! It is still the parents' choice, however. California is a tough state, because it assimilates so many migrants. However, the country as a whole benefits from immigration by about 10 billion a year (The Economist), which "isn't much, but it isn't a minus."

    Finally, I'd like to say that it's hard to determine which jobs are communicating jobs and which aren't. If your only skill was repair work, aren't you essentially locked into that career track, although you may start slow as you acquire english skills? If the only job you can FIND (for all those welfare haters) requires some contact, aren't you forced to take it? And finally, is dealing with a yet-to-learn-English-but-learning person REALLY that much of a hassle for us lucky ones? I don't think so. Thinking back to the absolute nightmare that was assimilation, those people could really use a friendly face. Really.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  3. #28
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Manveet
    Isn't there some sort of English aptitude test for immigration? I'm sure they don't let people into the states that easy.
    That easy??? It is VERY difficult to get into the US for permanent residence. There are quotas for every country. In order to get in, you have to:
    1. at best, be on special asylum consideration (for example, Sudan refugees or Russian Jews)
    2. have family here (we had my great aunt)
    3. be a very high skilled worker (US is leading the brain drain)
    4. be a poorly skilled worker willing to work for very low pay and be the backbone of our economy

    If you have a lot of the above, you still have to wait years until your turn comes up. My mom waited about 5-6. She was a high skilled engineer with family connection.
    No, none of us knew English when we came. She worked her turn as a manicurist, Pizza Hut cook, cleaning houses, etc etc. Only 9 years later and lookie here, she's about to contribute $60,000 a year for mine and my sister's college education to America's finest institutions.
    "The average immigrant who goes to college winds up paying the US government $250,000 over a lifetime" ~US News
    (for non-college folks it's about $80,000 over a lifetime)

    Trust me, US is elite and hallowed ground, regarded as the world of dreams by the rest of the world. We're all blessed.
    Last edited by Jane; 09-23-2002 at 09:00 PM.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  4. #29
    Simplistic
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    Originally posted by Tryska


    now there's a first.

  5. #30
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    Also, consider quotas. It's very difficult to get into the United States permanently, we all know that. In countries with high corruption levels, politics run amuk, unstable government, etc etc, when you somehow acquire the ability to come to the best country in the world, you take it. You don't sit around trying to learn a few more vocab words, you pack your stuff and run the hell out. Where some see 'being unprepared,' I see incredible strength, courage, and audacity.

    Correction, its very difficult to LEGALLY get into the states permanently. There are over 9 million people who had no problem getting in here, and think you're a chump because you followed the rules. These people are on welfare, these people are destroying the school system by refusing to learn english and forcing American born children to learn a foreign language.
    Why is a multicultural environment beneficial to someone who is living in America, which has its own culture? The illegal immigrants who have forced this multi culty bullshit on America have no respect for American culture. They come from a place where there is no history of freedom and no history of individualism or democracy, let alone the concept of a constitutional republic. They refuse to assimilate into American culture. I refused to learn spanish, I learned German instead. When someone speaks in spanish to me, expecting me to understand it boils my blood so hot I want to say everything that is on my mind but I cant because I'd be sued by some ACLU hack lawyer and liberal judge.Maybe I've been exposed to that type of **** more than you people have, seeing as I lived in San Francisco, but I'm sure some LA based WBB member knows a bit better.

    It all boils down to this. We live in AMERICA. In America, we speak English. Not Spanish, not Russian, not French. The founders of this country spoke english. It is the language of the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and the declaration of Independance that I know many foreigners dont give a **** about, other than they think it means a free lunch. If you live in America, and you dont speak english, LEARN IT. Now, the government has really fucked us. First off, they are not allowed to give a literacy test because it is seen as raaaacist and discriiiiiiiiiiminatory towards minoooooorities. We also cant teach english to those who dont speak it because of the same bullshit. I'd be highly in favor of teaching english to immigrants who come to America legally. More power to 'em. Help them assimilate, help them to make it in an English speaking country.

  6. #31
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Budiak
    Correction, its very difficult to LEGALLY get into the states permanently. There are over 9 million people who had no problem getting in here, and think you're a chump because you followed the rules. These people are on welfare, these people are destroying the school system by refusing to learn english and forcing American born children to learn a foreign language.
    Why is a multicultural environment beneficial to someone who is living in America, which has its own culture? The illegal immigrants who have forced this multi culty bullshit on America have no respect for American culture. They come from a place where there is no history of freedom and no history of individualism or democracy, let alone the concept of a constitutional republic. They refuse to assimilate into American culture. I refused to learn spanish, I learned German instead. When someone speaks in spanish to me, expecting me to understand it boils my blood so hot I want to say everything that is on my mind but I cant because I'd be sued by some ACLU hack lawyer and liberal judge.Maybe I've been exposed to that type of **** more than you people have, seeing as I lived in San Francisco, but I'm sure some LA based WBB member knows a bit better.

    It all boils down to this. We live in AMERICA. In America, we speak English. Not Spanish, not Russian, not French. The founders of this country spoke english. It is the language of the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and the declaration of Independance that I know many foreigners dont give a **** about, other than they think it means a free lunch. If you live in America, and you dont speak english, LEARN IT. Now, the government has really fucked us. First off, they are not allowed to give a literacy test because it is seen as raaaacist and discriiiiiiiiiiminatory towards minoooooorities. We also cant teach english to those who dont speak it because of the same bullshit. I'd be highly in favor of teaching english to immigrants who come to America legally. More power to 'em. Help them assimilate, help them to make it in an English speaking country.
    Ok, I agree that people who come here, legal or illegal, need to make an effort to learn English.

    But, if i'm rude below it's not because its' personal.

    Now then, what the f*ck are you talking about?
    1. You think its easy to come here illegally? That the people who did had 'no problem'? Are you talking out of your ass?
    For god sakes man, you should be proud that your country is so amazing people are willing to die (and regularly do) in an attempt to come here. I wonder how many Americans have truly risked their life like that. Funny how we have quotes like 'rules are meant to be broken' and regularly make fun of our own 'doughnut eating' police, but when it comes to illegal immigration, we're suddenly all perfect law abiding citizens and suddenly all those who came here without jumping out of a womb or signing papers are somehow bad people. Just THINK about people's lives. Don't think about the numbers. You're sitting in some third world and your kids are starving and/or are probably going to be cleaning houses all their life (coughBrazilcough) when you hear a rumour that someone can cross you into the US. All of us proud, law abiding citizens wouldn't think twice, pack the kids, and get the hell out of there.

    2. Illegal immigrants bother you? Tough nuggets, because they're the backbone of a lot of states' labor forces. They work in miserable conditions for under the table, under minimum wage pay their whole goddamn lives so you can have bread, or fruit, or meat on your table. Would you do those jobs? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't either. You should be thankful we have such a cheap and expendable workforce.

    3. "These people are on welfare." What? You need something called a social security number to be on welfare, bud. And last time I checked, the whole reason illegals are illegal is because they don't have one. They work their asses off day in and day out, you can be sure of that.

    4. "these people are destroying the American school system by refusing to learn English and forcing American born children to learn a foreign language." Oh please. Poor little American children have to *gasp* learn a foreign language in school? What horror! I'd like to know where you have some sort of fact to back up this statement. Destroying the school system? Something smells bad, and I think it's a scapegoat.
    Like I said before, it's a privelge to live in a multicultural society where kids can acquire a foreign language before getting too old to do so. You don't want to learn spanish? Fine. Learn something else. Or, like most people, remain ignorant of all other languages and expect the people of the world to know English.

    5. "the illegal immigrants who have forced this multi culty bullshit on America have no respect for American culture"
    A fact please? Just one? Because you're speaking out of your ass yet again. You want to talk Magna Carta, Constitution? What about New York, circa 1900? This country was BUILT on the foundation of a melting pot. It was built on the likes of people who are brave enough, risk enough, and stoic enough to come here and try to build a life. THAT is a crucial part of American culture, whether you like it or not. And hey, your ancestors were all immigrants, and some of them may have been illegal as well.

    6. "It is the language of the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and the declaration of Independance that I know many foreigners dont give a **** about, other than they think it means a free lunch."
    A fact? A survey? An interview? How many foreigners do you actually know, have taken the time to speak to? It's a widely recognized fact that immigrants uphold the Constitution and are proud of this country just as much or even more than native-born people. They worked their butts off, got here, and this country has, for once in their lives, rewarded their efforts. It gave them everything.
    You don't like the free lunch? I hope you mean that figuratively because reduced-pay lunch was damn helpful to my mom when we first got here.

    7. "First off, they are not allowed to give a literacy test because it is seen as raaaacist and discriiiiiiiiiiminatory towards minoooooorities."
    Um, what? What do you mean, test for literacy before letting people enter? Please say no, or I'd have to beat you. Thanks.

    8. "We also cant teach english to those who dont speak it because of the same bullshit. I'd be highly in favor of teaching english to immigrants who come to America legally. More power to 'em. Help them assimilate, help them to make it in an English speaking country."
    Ok, America does have an extensive ESOL program--"English as a second language." What do you mean we can't teach english to legal immigrants? We already do! ESOL pulls kids out of most of their classes for the day and puts them in a class with other ESOL kids, so they can all learn English together and get assimilated into regular schooling as soon as possible. I was out after less than a year.
    This IS an English speaking country. CA might not see that, but the majority of America is quite definitely english speaking and will remain that way until we get a better foreign language education system out here. In fact, our current foreign language proficiency is a disgrace in the world view, and a chief concern of our educational system.
    Finally, like I said, I DO agree that people need to make an effort. But there's no reason to be rude to them while they do. Someone spoke to you in Spanish? What right do you have to go off on them? Do you know their history? Do you know how long they've been here? Do you know the extent of their effort thus far? No. And if that was just a person who has yet to pick it up, you would be a damn fool for assuming false arrogance. Like a Frenchman or something. Sheesh.

    10. Yes, you have been exposed to "****" more than we east coast, new england folks have. But why transpose all your views on these non-assimilating immigrants on all of immigration itself, especially illegal immigration? Illegal immigration is a problem in many countries, and it's not stopping any time soon. So suck it up and deal with the fact that some of those huddled masses earning to breathe free don't have papers.

    Thanks,
    Jane
    Last edited by Jane; 09-24-2002 at 05:27 AM.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  7. #32
    Trying to figure this out JohnCollins's Avatar
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    Whoa there!

    *Throws cold water on Budiak and Jane*

    Jane you've made many excellent points and I think you've given me more to think about than any other post I've read on this board. On top of writing impeccable english, you make your points better than almost everybody else here.

    Budiak is understandably a little miffed because of living in the People's Republik of Kalifornia and things there are pretty crazy. Bilingual classes there meant basically all spanish and, as usualy, the teacher's unions fostered them because it kept kids from learning english which created a whole industry for spanish-speaking teachers. Bilingual education finally had to be eliminated by law as a result of a referendum spearheaded by Hispanic parents! California is spending billions on social services for illegal immigrants and not asking for social security numbers to not discourage them from taking advantage of those services.

    Budiak, Jane is right, however, when she says your anger is misdirected. It should be aimed precisely at the ACLU lawyers and teachers union, politicians who pander to illegal immigrants, etcetera, not the immigrants themselves. I have two kids and Jane is precisely right in that if Mexico was the promised land, I'd be in their underground economy sending money back home to momma and the urchins. There's no shame in that. The real enemy is the liberal elite in this country who make illegal immigrants their cause to assuage their guilt at being American.

    Jane, in a state like California, there is going to be some real chafing over these issues, so I'd ask you to understand Budiak's frustration, too. I'd probably be just as chafed. Poor bastard is working his way into a career which will likely keep him in the PRC for life (shakes head). His head will explode someday.

    It is good for American kids to have to learn second languages and learn about other cultures. What you have to understand is the multiculturalism in todays academic, media and politically environments is not what you are describing. It equals "America BAAAAAAD, third world where girls endure clitorectomies as soon as they hit puberty GOOOOOOD." I applaud your feeling for our great country and I am grateful you are here. My wife is an immigrant (Philippines) and a citizen. In our small country there are three immigrants working with us we love dearly and who are terrific assets to our firm.

    Immigrants are not the enemy, multi-culturalism, as it exists in the social and political institutions of our country today mind you, most definitely is an insidious evil. Being culturally aware and open minded is not, but the multi-culty stuff that chafes Budiak is truly evil stuff, for everybody. I think you two are perhaps talking past each other, and obviously you are both highly emotional on this issue, with good reasons on both sides.

    Now hug and make up, please. Eric, this is between them, you don't need to make it a group hug.

    JC
    "Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein

    Had a good workout on my liver yesterday. Did a pretty high number of reps, but not to complete failure. Liver DOMS today is kinda bad...it has even reached my head! -- ElPietro

    "If I ever found a chick who smelled like gun powder and spent cartridges, I'd run to a jewelry store, rob it, and propose to her with a sack of diamonds. " --Budiak

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  8. #33
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

    As I said, CA is pretty crazy. And it does foot the bill for a lot of the rest of the country. But, there is something that can be done here. "The National Academy of Sciences report might also cause Washington lawmakers to revisit a proposal that almost became law last fall: federal "impact aid" to the handful of states with large immigrant populations....Pro-immigration forces might concede some of the points made by their opponents and support putting money in places like California. Reducing the costs of immigration to those it hits hardest is the surest way to preserve the benefits to everyone else." ~Paul Glastaris, US News

    On that note, I thank John for keeping an open mind. And I do assure you, despite my tone in the previous post, that I see his point. If I felt he wasn't bringing up important points, I wouldn't feel the need to refute them to such an extent.

    Just remember Budiak, that California does NOT = United States.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  9. #34
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    ......
    John, I'm going to give you my phone number or something so you can call me when you sense I'm writing 7 pages of **** that I wont need to write after you sum everything up in three sentences, you old son of a bitch. If anybody would like to read it, I saved it...I felt that because I wasted an hour and a half of my life writing a rebuttal on a ******* internet message board, it should at least be saved to disk.

    Just to punish you, I'm going to stay up aaaaalll night. Sucker!





    *cries

    **** I hate lawyers. They make it all possible HAHHAAA!
    Last edited by Budiak; 09-24-2002 at 06:20 AM.

  10. #35
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Ok, so you didn't go off on the guy.

    But I'm about to refute all of your points, except the one truth about CA covering a lot of the assimilation cost. I had already admitted to that and noted impact aid for a reason.

    Ooh...just wait until I get home from school. Stupid school, getting in the way of my education.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  11. #36
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Ack! where'd your post go?

    What am I going to discuss??
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  12. #37
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I dunno. But the spotlight's on you now. Speech!
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
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  13. #38
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    *ahem*

    *steps on podium*

    *trips, falls*

    *stunned silence*

    Ah shoot. Try again next year.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  14. #39
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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  15. #40
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JohnCollins
    It is good for American kids to have to learn second languages and learn about other cultures. What you have to understand is the multiculturalism in todays academic, media and politically environments is not what you are describing. It equals "America BAAAAAAD, third world where girls endure clitorectomies as soon as they hit puberty GOOOOOOD." I applaud your feeling for our great country and I am grateful you are here. My wife is an immigrant (Philippines) and a citizen. In our small country there are three immigrants working with us we love dearly and who are terrific assets to our firm.

    Immigrants are not the enemy, multi-culturalism, as it exists in the social and political institutions of our country today mind you, most definitely is an insidious evil. Being culturally aware and open minded is not, but the multi-culty stuff that chafes Budiak is truly evil stuff, for everybody.
    Jane, read this very carefully.

    This is what I was trying to elocute last night.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  16. #41
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    That was before the transhumanist bit, correct?

    I think I understand what you're saying, and can see where you would feel that way.

    I guess the reason I'm having a small problem accepting this idea of 'multiculturalism is bad in the social, political etc etc', is because I have problems with nationalism and patriotism in general. (After all, get enough patriotism going and you'll have extreme nationalism, which can be a very dangerous thing if you look through history.) My thinking, and this is completely off topic, is that with every extra level of patriotism that you have, you INHERENTLY see other people in other countries as a little below yourself and your land. For some reason, a lot of people see something wrong with the notion of seeing each other from a more global perspective and looking out for the human race in general. As globalization progresses and the world grows smaller, I think we may see the end of national boundaries. (coughEUcough) This scares some, but I think it's an interesting prospect. None of us will be around then, in any case, so let's not argue about whether that's a possiblity or not.
    Anyway, I think it is possible to love a country and be thankful for it all your life, as long as you see the other citizens of the world as equal in every way and as deserving of the positive aspects of life.

    Take that for what it is.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  17. #42
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Rejecting multiculturalism doesn't necessarily require, nor imply, any form of extreme nationalism.

    Multiculturalism, as we're arguing against, is the essential deconstructionism of OUR culture. The US has a culture that is rapidly being diluted and destroyed not by an influx of new ideas and values, but by those parties that wish to subjectively elevate those ideas and values above our own.

    That is what is unacceptable.
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  18. #43
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Another difference between us, Matt, is that you see something like "American culture" and want to preserve it.

    That's good and fair, but I think that culture can continually evolve and change. In fact, its evolution is inevitable and beyond our control, so rather than fighting it we may as well embrace the change.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  19. #44
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Jane-- you know my stance on that issue. Of course it will evolve and change, and adhering to any one stance is useless in the long term.

    However, multiculturalism is de-evolution at best, and self-destruction at worst. We're a seed; one that has to be preserved. Its not easy to deal with, and may not ever be-- but just remember the alternative.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  20. #45
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    The US has a culture that is rapidly being diluted and destroyed not by an influx of new ideas and values, but by those parties that wish to subjectively elevate those ideas and values above our own.

    That is what is unacceptable.
    I'm not really understanding which parties you're talking about specifically.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

  21. #46
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Its very tempting and entirely too easy to just respond with "the Democratic party"-- but that's entirely too narrow-minded for this discussion.

    As much as I truly loathe terms of generalization, its appropriate in this case: left-wing socialist liberals. Just think of anyone that follows the ideas laid out in any of those oh-so-lovely Top 10 lists that get posted here every so often.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  22. #47
    Trying to figure this out JohnCollins's Avatar
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    Budiak's post is very much worth the read, IMHO. Thanks for the PM, Budiak!

    Jane, we don't disagree, I've just figured that out. It's semantics. I believe you value in our culture what Budiak, PowerMan and I all value as well. I believe the four of us find, for the most part, the same values to be desirable and the same things to be undesirable. But what you see as "muticulturalism" is being open to other cultures and tolerant of others. What PM, Budiak and I are seeing as "multiculturalism" is the politically correct perversion of tolerance (absolute non-tolerance to be exact). You see a lot in our culture that is positive, as do we. The PC multiculturalists see all culture that is American as bad (they feel guilty to be American, not proud) and all culture that is non-American as good (even if it means treating women in a demeaning way, for example).

    The labels conjure up different images in our heads. If we all got together over a beer (well, not you, that would be illegal, you have a Coke), I suspect we'd all be agreeing in short order. I'm not saying this to end the argument, I think it's true from reading what everybody has written. I'm fairly certain you'd be incensed at what riles Budiak in California, and I'm also pretty certain Budiak judges people "by the content of their character" and not by where they come from.
    "Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein

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  23. #48
    Starting all over again :(
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    America has a culture??? what is that?

  24. #49
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
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    Beach Boys, Elvis, Route 66, Apple pie! John Wayne, Hollywood, Manhatten, Italians, Happy Days, I want to go to america.
    A big thanks to all my friends in the USA, I am deeply grateful for your hospitality and kindness.

  25. #50
    Ex-Mod Jane's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JohnCollins
    Budiak's post is very much worth the read, IMHO. Thanks for the PM, Budiak!

    Jane, we don't disagree, I've just figured that out. It's semantics. I believe you value in our culture what Budiak, PowerMan and I all value as well. I believe the four of us find, for the most part, the same values to be desirable and the same things to be undesirable. But what you see as "muticulturalism" is being open to other cultures and tolerant of others. What PM, Budiak and I are seeing as "multiculturalism" is the politically correct perversion of tolerance (absolute non-tolerance to be exact). You see a lot in our culture that is positive, as do we. The PC multiculturalists see all culture that is American as bad (they feel guilty to be American, not proud) and all culture that is non-American as good (even if it means treating women in a demeaning way, for example).

    The labels conjure up different images in our heads. If we all got together over a beer (well, not you, that would be illegal, you have a Coke), I suspect we'd all be agreeing in short order. I'm not saying this to end the argument, I think it's true from reading what everybody has written. I'm fairly certain you'd be incensed at what riles Budiak in California, and I'm also pretty certain Budiak judges people "by the content of their character" and not by where they come from.
    Yes, it is worth the read.

    You're right, language can mess a discussion up when different terms mean different things. In fact, now that I think about it, I learned about this exact thing in Communications class this summer. Now I see it applied...interesting.

    And yeah, I'd like a diet coke.
    "Then on leg day do squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, fluffernutters, and calf raises."--Belial, training a newbie

    PowermanDL on Russian culture: "Big furry hats come into play somewhere."

    "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death." --Thomas Paine

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