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Thread: Bench press on Smith Machine

  1. #26
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    ElPietro...

    Unless you compete in PL or some other strength-related competition, gaining massive strength levels, no matter HOW you do it, is only to stroke your ego.

    There is little need for our amplified strength levels here in the real world.

    It doesn't really matter how you get there, either.
    Wow, I guess all the added benefits of heavy training are lost on you. Skeletal strength and increased bone density well into old age preventing me from breaking my hip when I slip. Keeping testosterone levels up into old age, a strong back to keep me from being a stooped old man, etc. I guess it's all for my ego then. You certainly don't need to work on that.

    Why do you train for physique then? I guess if powerlifting is for ego, then training for size might be said to be compensating for other shortfalls in life? After 20 years I'd figure you'd have a stronger grasp on things...
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  2. #27
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    I like circles.

  3. #28
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    Originally posted by galileo
    I like circles.
    LMAO
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  4. #29
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    ElPietro-

    I hope you really believe all the crap you're slingin'...

    Skeletal strength, bone density... you wish.

    You lift because it make YOU feel better about yourself.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


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  5. #30
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    ElPietro-

    I hope you really believe all the crap you're slingin'...

    Skeletal strength, bone density... you wish.

    You need to do some reading bro. Also, you never responded to my explanation of why smith was different than regular bench. You asked for the explanation, do you have any comments on it?
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    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by galileo
    I like circles.

  7. #32
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    I think smith's are okay. I agree that you don't get the full effect of freeweights, but still... you can get big with a smith machine, and obviously w8 has. I use a smith for my squats and calf raises. I know that I can't squat as much without a smith, but my lifts are getting better, so its not a waste of time or anything. Can't we all just get along?


  8. #33
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    I have a question: when benching arn't the pecs the stabilizing muscle?
    big.

  9. #34
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    Originally posted by Frozenmoses
    I think smith's are okay. I agree that you don't get the full effect of freeweights, but still... you can get big with a smith machine, and obviously w8 has. I use a smith for my squats and calf raises. I know that I can't squat as much without a smith, but my lifts are getting better, so its not a waste of time or anything. Can't we all just get along?


  10. #35
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    ElPietro-

    Sorry, I had to run to the store. Damn, it was hard to lift the 2 gallons of milk... I guess I should have worked harder on those stabilizers...

    LMAO!

    I need to read. I KNOW what you are saying about skeletal strength and bone density, etc., is the truth, but if you expect me to believe that you lift to increase your skeletal strength... LOL... well I just ain't going to buy that. In all my years, I have NEVER heard anyone answer that when asked, "Why do you lift weights?" "Well, certainly, it's for the increased skeletal strength and for the benefits I'll realize when I am an old man..."

    That's like a rock star claiming to BE a rock star because he wants to further his creative vision or something. No, he wants to be a rock star for the sex, drugs, and rock n roll....

    WHAT a great laugh today!@ TY~!

    I have no idea why people claim that smith machines are so inferior to everything else. It's bunk. It's a lie. There a difference, sure, but that doesn't they won't work. They work fiiiine.
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  11. #36
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Strength in a locked arc is a vastly different matter than strength in a 3d space. Regardless of any counter-balancing that may be present, that does not change the fact that any movement done on the Smith is locked into a straight line.

    That in and of itself is reason enough not to use it for anything more than a supplementary movement if you're at all concerned about any kind of useful strength. Useful strength does include a competitive squat and bench press.

    For mass purposes, in my eyes the Smith is just another machine, and I'd consider its usage to be the same as with any machine. For the record, I wouldn't and don't use it because if I'm doing to grab the barbell, I'll grab a barbell; if I want to use a machine, I'll go use a Hammer Strength or something similar. I can't reconcile it in my mind to use a barbell that's restricted.

    W8 I'd argue that your results were more than likely from the 17 years of lifting you did previous to the Smith machine, not that it is somehow magically responsible for your physique after three years of usage.
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  12. #37
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    from PwerManDL...
    W8 I'd argue that your results were more than likely from the 17 years of lifting you did previous to the Smith machine, not that it is somehow magically responsible for your physique after three years of usage.
    You'd be arguing incorrectly. If you go to "Member's Pictures" and check the ones I posted... you'll will see what I looked like in 1998, a far cry different than I look today... the first year was only the use of a Weider multi-station, the years after that, a multi-station AND a smith machine. Only.

    I started lifting in 1980. But, as most can attest, there are stoppages that come along the way. Schedule changes, job changes, the new baby comes, injuries... my biggest came by way of breaking my right upper arm completely in half and the rehab and surgeries that followed.

    That would be the main reason that I use a smith. I lift alone and have a bit of inconsistencies between left and right arm.

    Even if this were NOT the case, I STILL use a smith. I love them. The motion is NOT so intrensically different, although it takes some time to get used to it.

    Somewhere in this thread somebody said that it felt unnatural. Well, so does squats when you first try them. ANY exercise feels foreign and unnatural the first time you do it.

    So, while I have never missed some sort of training since 1980, some years were certainly WAY better than others.

    Guys, trust me. Smith machines are not of Da Debil! They are fine pieces of equipment.

    So, do me a big, fat favor and save all that linear motion/3rd space motion crap. I couldn't care less about that. Anyone who is reading this is doing so because they have a desire to get stronger, bigger, or both. Most want to look better and feel better, but a HUGE amount want to look better than the average Joe, especially to the opposite sex.

    Call it what it is.
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  13. #38
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I dare you to train exclusively on a Smith machine and try to do either a competitive bench press or a squat.

    I will guarantee that you will fall VERY short of where you might be led to think you are.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  14. #39
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    WHY would I want to do THAT?!

    I haven't competed in PL since 1985! I have no use for that.

    I train to look good, feel good, and be better than the average Joe. I also like to look good to the members of the opposite sex.

    Unless you compete, you really don't need to worry so much about whether or not your stabilizers are up to snuff. If you are a recreational lifter, which about 98% of you SEEM to be, you lift for the same reasons as I do.
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 09-26-2002 at 07:40 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  15. #40
    Wounded Deadlifter ryan1117's Avatar
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    It's like high school trig... ya NEVER use it in the real world.
    Trust me, trig is by far the most important part of math as used in the real world. I agree that it may not seem to apply to anything if you are not in a math-intense profession. However, for an engineer such as myself, it is the squat or deadlift of my major. You aren't going to see someone build some long bridge, skyscraper, or jumbo jet just by trial and error. Trig is used to assure that the construction will be a success without risking any lives. It also makes it so the designer can make the most efficient use of materials to keep the costs down.

    I agree that most people in this world would be perfectly fine in their professions without knowing trig. But, a portion of people not only need to know trig, but know it well!

  16. #41
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    I use smith machine for ski shrugs and sometimes close grip bench, that is all.

    90 % of the people in our gym who use smith machine for squats, bench etc are simply scared of / inexperienced at using free weights and when asked why they dont use free weights they use stupid excuses like..." oh I cant do free weight squats I`ve got a bad knee/back " or simply come out with " I dont like doing free squats " hehe oh well at least they admit to it.

    Buit yeah I agree it`s simply just another machine and does have its uses, Although I wouldn`t ever use it exclusively as w8 does.
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  17. #42
    One crazy MOFO/Mail man
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    Is it just me or does W8_4_Me sound like a very ignorant person. He does not listen to other's opinions just cuts them up (just furthers his display of ignorance) when they respond. That and he seems to not realize he imposes his own value sets on others. Previously someone mentioned some of the benifits of bb and totally dismissed them (not as lies but as goals that no one would have). Of course no one wants to be healthier and no one plans for old age at all. If this were true and people were obsessed with our "supposed real goals" of "looking good and attacting the opposite sex" everyone would just take every drug under the sun to become big fast and screw one's health. But its funny how our "supposed real goals for bb" come exactly into line with yours.... I quote...

    "I train to look good, feel good, and be better than the average Joe. I also like to look good to the members of the opposite sex."
    w00t

  18. #43
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GonePostal
    Is it just me or does W8_4_Me sound like a very ignorant person. He does not listen to other's opinions just cuts them up (just furthers his display of ignorance) when they respond. That and he seems to not realize he imposes his own value sets on others. Previously someone mentioned some of the benifits of bb and totally dismissed them (not as lies but as goals that no one would have). Of course no one wants to be healthier and no one plans for old age at all. If this were true and people were obsessed with our "supposed real goals" of "looking good and attacting the opposite sex" everyone would just take every drug under the sun to become big fast and screw one's health. But its funny how our "supposed real goals for bb" come exactly into line with yours.... I quote...

    "I train to look good, feel good, and be better than the average Joe. I also like to look good to the members of the opposite sex."
    Oh, great. A newbie with an attitude.

    Month after month people go out of their way to badmouth smith machines. There is NOTHING wrong with them. They do a fine job.

    So I'M the ignorant one?

    Look, newbie, by this time next year I'll be competing in the masters category for natural BB. What will YOU be doing... pounding down another box of Twinkies?

    I love free weights. I have said it time and time again in this forum that I believe they are the superior way to train.

    They are not they ONLY way to get the job done, though. There are MANY ways to get the results you want. Just because people take different roads doesn't mean they are wrong.

    I do not have access to free weights. I haven't for over 3 years. I haven't even missed them. In fact, my training is better than ever.

    Most of the people who are reading will NEVER get to my level. Sad but true.

    So, Mr. newbie... I don't spend much time cutting people up... I spend time defending what I know to be right. Why wouldn't you want to listen? i have made countless mistakes over the years... wouldn't you like to learn from my mistakes? It's quite a time saver, believe me.

    Ignorant. That's rich.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


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  19. #44
    GrapeApe ArjKing's Avatar
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    This is how I see it. The advantage of using free weight is it improves your stabelizer muscles. The advantage of using a smith machine aside from more weight is usually safer because they have stoppers. A free flat bb bench uses the delts, triceps, and even biceps as stabelizers to some extent, with the pectorals pushing the load up. Making these stabelizer muscles stronger will allow you to progress easier in other pushing motions like overhead DB presses. It really depends on your routine. Yes you can gain mass just by using the smith machine for all compount exercises as W8 does. But I think using it once every 3-4 weeks as JoeyG does is just silly, you might as well take a rest day. You would have to use greater poundages on that day and you are neglecting your stabelizers which you are planning on using for the other 75% of your chest workouts.

    Another point is say W8 wants to switch routines and start using a flat BB bench (as some of us do change our routines from time to time). He isn't going to be able to lift as much, his stabelizers aren't up to snuff with his pecs for a flat bb bench, therefore his pecs are barely being trained while the stabelizers are catching up (the stabelizers will fail before his pecs do). I just think that having been said, the free weight bodybuilder is that much more versatile when it comes to changing routines and exercises.
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  20. #45
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    BTW, I didn't DISMISS the listed benefits of training... I said (quote) I KNOW what you are saying about skeletal strength and bone density, etc., is the truth (en-quote) but the gyst of the post was that ElPietro was suggesting that those reasons were more or less WHYhe lifts weights.

    Read the posts around here, Dude.

    Most people here are more interested with how they look and feel and how the opposite sex perceives them. Very few novice and recreational lifters care one iota about skeletal strength, bone density, and how well they will weather a fall when they are 70.

    Most the guys who post here are teenagers who have yet to realize that one day they WILL get old.

    ArjKing...

    I guess so, but those stabilizers can be ready to accept that new assignment in a couple of weeks. No big whoop.
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 09-26-2002 at 07:22 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


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  21. #46
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Most people here are more interested with how they look and feel and how the opposite sex perceives them. Very few novice and recreational lifters care one iota about skeletal strength, bone density, and how well they will weather a fall when they are 70.
    So, you're telling ME what *my* goals are. You know that I'm not doing this for health reasons, or to help ensure my continued mobility and vigor when I'm older.

    Glad you've got me all figured out.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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    Budiak: I wish

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    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

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  22. #47
    GrapeApe ArjKing's Avatar
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    As far as training for chicks goes, I think you're barking up the wrong tree there. 95% of the good lookin girls I see are with tall skinny guys, not guys with 18" arms. But I can see where you are coming from, as most of the guys your age are fat and out of shape, being big and lean definitely has it's advantages.
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  23. #48
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    LOL!

    You guys are cracking me up!


    PowerManDL-

    I have no idea what your personal reasons are for weightlifting. You may be that one in a million type of weightlifter who lifts solely for the health benefit. So be it. I never met one like you then. Well, at least not one under the age of 50, at any rate.

    It's cool. I like the health benefits I receive from being fitness oriented, but it is NOT the main reason why I do it. I mean, don't get me wrong... the fact that I've dieted away my problems with high cholesterol and borderline high blood pressure PLEASE me...

    I have to admit it, though... and I have read post after post over my time here about people who appreciate the way they get lookedat, the extra attention they seem to get because of their physiques. I'm like that too! I work hard on my body. I am happy when someone asks me how I train or when they guess my age at 10 years younger than I am.

    I do it for me. I feel better about me. I look better too. I am not "me" without weight training.

    ArjKing-

    That might depend on your age. In MY world, there aren't very many really in shape 40ish men. Most 40ish men are pretty out of shape. test this. Spend an hour at your local mall's food court. Just watch the people who walk by. You'll see EXACTLY what I mean.

    Guys, I am not trying to fight. I am trying to say that there are several alternate techiniques that one might use to get the results they want.

    In the real world, whether or not your stabilizer muscles are tip-top means very little, and smith machines can deliver an excellent workout.
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 09-26-2002 at 07:55 PM.
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    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  24. #49
    GrapeApe ArjKing's Avatar
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    Originally posted by w8_4_me
    In the real world, whether or not your stabilizer muscles are tip-top means very little, and smith machines can deliver an excellent workout.
    Yeah but in the bodybuilding world they mean alot. Going by the number of posts we have and the amount of time we spend in the gym, very few of the people on this site are actually living in the real world.

    But I get what you're saying, smith can be just as beneficial to your goals of hypertrophy as free weights. But alot of people see smith machine as just cutting corners, albeit not very large ones. Most of the people here are much too hard core to cut corners
    Last edited by ArjKing; 09-26-2002 at 08:08 PM.
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  25. #50
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    Well, ArjKing-

    In the BB world, they don't mean as much as they do in the PL world.

    BB is a look. You are trying to achieve THAT look... the look of total muscularity, and HOW you get there or even HOW STRONG you are doesn't mean much compared to the LOOK.

    PL is all about strength.... Yes, if one is training for PL, then it DEFINITELY matters. If I were into PL, I wouldn't use a smith, at least for the majority of exercises.

    Ty you all for your opinions, but now I have to take my old man butt to bed.
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 09-26-2002 at 08:14 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

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