The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    Bench press on Smith Machine

    I have statred using the smith machine for bench press every 3 to 4 weeks and then doing my other normal exercies for chest. Does anyone else incorporate the smith into their bench and if so have you noticed a differnce?
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

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  3. #2
    Wannabebig Member
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    I havent used a Smith machine to do my chest for a while now but when I do its at a time when I do my super heavy workouts to increase. Spose it all depends on your goals at the time

  4. #3
    Senior Member eclips1's Avatar
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    Yea I did, but I started using it instead of the bench and when I went back to the bench my balance and form had suffered. Not a bad Idea to use it once every so often. I do for negatives, but other than that I stick to free weights.

  5. #4
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    It's all I ever use.

    In fact, it's all I ever use for squats, too.

    Inclines, declines, bent rows, shrugs, calf raises... it's all good.

    I even use the bar as a pull up bar.

    My smith is NOT counter balanced, tho. It's a standard olympic bar on guides.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  6. #5
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Just wondering WHY you would use the smith, if you weren't limited to using it? It just seems foolish in the extreme to go from regular bench to flat bench. I can't think of why you would want to do that...
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  7. #6
    Have you seen my puke bag Bobo's Avatar
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    Stick to freeweights where ever possible so that your stabiliser muscles get worked too. Unless you don't care about not being able to actually hold the amount of weight you are pushing.
    I'm in shape. ROUND is a shape

    Fighting isn't fun... It's just fun to watch

    "The hardest part is getting started" -me

  8. #7
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    I just GOTTA ask... what is the big whoop about stabilizer muscles?

    It's like high school trig... ya NEVER use it in the real world.

    Unless you are a competitive PL, who CARES?
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  9. #8
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    It's like high school trig... ya NEVER use it in the real world.
    Are you smoking crack? Yes that's a serious question.

    Your smith squats are just like leg presses. The strength you get from it isn't very useful if your joints and other supporting muscles and tendons that aren't used aren't strong enough. So why do you think your 400lb smith squat would translate into barely a 300lb free weight squat? Simple, you aren't strong enough. But the illusion of strength that maybe makes you feel better about yourself whilst training on a smith. There won't be a smith machine hookup to the living room couch, or whatever other everyday feats of strength you may need to perform. It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you said. Isolated strength is more like high school trig, actually being able to perform the lifts that you train at, without some kind of aid is actually a good test of strength that you could actually apply in a real life situation.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  10. #9
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    LOL!

    Yeah, right.

    That's a load of crap.

    My life has not been dimished in the least because I use a smith machine. Not in the least.

    I have a smith is ISN'T counter balanced... the weight is what the weight is and my motion isn't hindered in the least.

    My leg press is just like a leg press, my squat is just like a squat. My bench is just like a bench, and so forth.

    When my neighbor says, "Hey! Can ya help me push my truck into the driveway?" I don't say, "Oh, ya know, I WOULD, but my damn stabilizer muscles just ain't what they oughta be... YOU understand.."

    Give me a freakin' break.

    Strength is strength in the real world. Half of the stuff that people talk about on this forum is about weightlifting on PAPER. It's NOT how it really is.

    ElPietro, say what you wanna, but realistically, after 20 years of training... over THREE of them nearly EXCLUSIVELY on a smith machine, I can HONESTLY say...

    Anyone who bad-mouths a smith has never consistently used one.
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 09-26-2002 at 01:52 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  11. #10
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Funny how I can add at least 100lbs to my squat by doing them on the smith. Maybe yours without counterbalances or whatever is different, but I know 99.9% of smiths are the same from what I've seen. Regardless either way, I can't see one reason to use one...ever.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  12. #11
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    Just wondering WHY you would use the smith, if you weren't limited to using it? It just seems foolish in the extreme to go from regular bench to flat bench. I can't think of why you would want to do that...
    The reason I started to use it was that I was late getting to the gym and my partner was already there using it doing chest so I jumped in with him. When I was done, my chest felt like it got a really good work out, so I just started using it every 3 or 4 weeks. But I also noticed that I was getting stronger on my regular flat bench. (that's what it seemed like) So I kept it in my routine. Keep in mind that I don't use the smith exclusively. I tried using it a couple of weeks in a row and the workout wasn't for same for me. Every 3 to 4 weeks seems to be working well.
    Last edited by Joey G.; 09-26-2002 at 02:03 PM.
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  13. #12
    Senior Member eclips1's Avatar
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    To each his own. If you like it w8 then more power to you. I don't believe you can go as far in training with a smith as you can with freeweights. Mind as well be a natulis, or bowflex. Sure I can get big on the smith, but not as big as I can by utilizing more muscles in my lifts. I flat out don't believe u when you say your smith bench and squat is as strong as your freeweight. Hell no!!! I know a guy who only does hamerstrength machines and other assisted lifting. He can put 3 45's and a 25 on each side on the incline bench and rep out for 5, but he can't even push 225 on a regular bb. Why because he has neglected the other muscles that assist in that movement. Is he strong, yes, but he's not as strong as he could be, and he definetly doesn't look as strong as he is. There is no good argument for achieving with assisted lifts what you can do with freeweights or a combination of both. Period.

  14. #13
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    Joey, our stats are comparable...

    Age: 39
    Weight: 203
    Arms: 17.5"
    Chest: 49"
    Waist: 32"
    Thighs: 25"
    Calves: 17"
    Neck: 17"

    Judging from your last post, you don't seem to be losing strength at all... in fact, it seems your strength is IMPROVING...

    Hmmmm....

    Oh, those damn smith machines....
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  15. #14
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    eclips... how can my bench be any different?

    Standard olympic bar... 45 lbs.

    My bar... 45lbs. There IS NOT A COUNTER BALANCE so the weight is the same weight. The ONLY difference is that it glides on tracks and has hooks.

    Smae for squat , all benches, etc.

    Now you TELL me how that is any different. Except for the all-glorious stabilizer muscles...
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  16. #15
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    trig is leads to calculus, calc leads to engineering...
    i did benching on the smith and i thought my pecs were twisting...it felt so wierd and completely unnatural...
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  17. #16
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    Originally posted by Sayiajin Prince
    trig is leads to calculus, calc leads to engineering...
    i did benching on the smith and i thought my pecs were twisting...it felt so wierd and completely unnatural...
    Each time I get on the smith it takes me a little bit to get use to the feel of it, position under the bar, etc.
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  18. #17
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    So that means it's doomed for the rest of humanity then?

    I make a nice living and have it pretty sweet... I never use higher math. Ever. Never kept me from achievinganything I wanted to achieve.

    I have a nice strength level, a decent physique... don't have anything but a smith... you can take ONE LOOK at me and know my training's on track...

    But still you insist...

    People here tend to TRY something, {It felt unnatural} not even give it a real chance, and deside it must not be any good for anyone. That's somepretty narrow thinking.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  19. #18
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    "#$"#$"#%$%&%&/$%&"$%"#$%"#$!"#$!"#$ smith machines....

    I've used one. It's crap. That's as much energy as i'll ever spend talking about smiths.
    Last edited by restless; 09-26-2002 at 02:20 PM.

  20. #19
    Fighting Genetics AdamGberg's Avatar
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    for these magical stabilizer muscles, wouldn't u want to use free weights for your bench press?...just a thought
    "Don't take life too serious, you'll never get out alive."-Van Wilder

  21. #20
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    eclips... how can my bench be any different?

    Standard olympic bar... 45 lbs.

    My bar... 45lbs. There IS NOT A COUNTER BALANCE so the weight is the same weight. The ONLY difference is that it glides on tracks and has hooks.

    Smae for squat , all benches, etc.

    Now you TELL me how that is any different. Except for the all-glorious stabilizer muscles...
    For the same reason I do not know anyone, and doubt if there is anyone out there who can say bench press 200 lbs, and also bench press 200 lb dumbells for the same amount of reps. Dumbells are more difficult. Why you ask? Well, you have to keep the weight from falling inwards or outwards. Something you do not have to do with a barbell. Same with a smith vs regular bench press. With a smith, all you have to do it push the weight up, not worrying if it will fall to either side. You have to account for this with a barbell.

    Same for squat, all benches, etc.

    BTW, is your smith machine counter-balanced ?
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  22. #21
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    ...and no one said anything about your physique. This debate has been over relative strength.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  23. #22
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    It's funny how you say we don't try anything, yet you clearly state you've used the smith machine exclusively for the past 3 years.

    And it's a simple thought process to grasp. Other than stroking my ego by allowing myself to lift more weight, or feeling the need for the illusion of a safety blanket, there is no benefit of a smith machine over a conventional lift. But there are many other benefits to performing compound exercises without the use of an aid or guide.

    Smith lifts are sorta like the light or diet version of the real thing. Only they aren't better for you...
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  24. #23
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    Originally posted by AdamGberg
    for these magical stabilizer muscles, wouldn't u want to use free weights for your bench press?...just a thought
    I do use free weights for my bench most of the time. I was wondering if anyone else incorporated the smith into their routine and if they did, did they notice any gains.
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  25. #24
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    ElPietro...

    Unless you compete in PL or some other strength-related competition, gaining massive strength levels, no matter HOW you do it, is only to stroke your ego.

    There is little need for our amplified strength levels here in the real world.

    It doesn't really matter how you get there, either.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  26. #25
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    BTW, my smith is NOT counter balanced...

    Thx for askin' Nate!
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

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