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Thread: Who do HIT (Arthur Jones HIT) ?!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    Who do HIT (Arthur Jones HIT) ?!

    Am I the only one who try (h)it ?

    what are/were your results ? SIZE and Strenght

    same question if you did Heavy Duty or Hardgainer

    Thanks
    Last edited by Gavan; 10-08-2002 at 10:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Power-BB's Avatar
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    I did HIT for about 5 to 6 months with no real results. I had my legs measured every month a long with weight and can say it was a waste of my time. For those of you making gains, good for you, but it didn't work for me.
    Second Cycle Sept 29th 2003:

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  3. #3
    Gymaholic Workhorse's Avatar
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    My buddy Bryon did it for 3 months and its the only real time he's never made an ounce of progress. Personally, I think it's a waste of time.

    Workhorse
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    105kg Open IPF Classic Provincial record holder in the squat, bench, deadlift, and total.

  4. #4
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    There is nobody, and I mean nobody, that can properly perform HIT and not benefit from it. The reason is that one of Arhtur's basic tenets is that you rest sufficiently between sessions in order to allow for full recovery (neural and muscular). So, if you train intensely, then rest sufficiently in order to recover, you must progress (assuming you are getting enough sleep, are not diseased, and eat sufficient calories). The problem is that some people follow specific suggested routines to the letter, and they are not capable of recovering within the time alloted.

  5. #5
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    I do 1 set training...

    I don't call it HIT because I don't follow all the HIT principles...

    it's the best method I have ever used for strength, mass and also leaving me the ability to recover from more frequent and longer cardio sessions

    I have been using it for almost a year...

    I wish I had started with it

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    mmm perhaps many people don't do HIT correctly...

    2 full body per week 8-12 exercices ONE set TO FAILURE per exercice and do some (2-3) prexhaustion sets. (Or if you can do all your exercices with negative reps only.)

    After only 3 workouts on HIT, I can say that I increased nearly all my lifts every workouts but didn't notice any size gains for the moment.

    September 26 : 80kg

    Squat : 10x85 (I didn't went to failure 1-2 reps short to failure)
    Chins : 10
    Dips : 11
    Stiff legged Deadlift : 10x87 (a new exercise for me)
    Standing Press : 8x47
    Lateral Raises : 9x10 immediately follow by dumbells standing press : 8x12
    Dumbells Bench press : 10x25
    Barbell Curl : 6x37
    Triceps extension : 7x37
    Wrist-Curl : 10x27
    Calves with dumbells : 18x25
    Crunches : 18x7.5kg
    Leg raises 20x0

    Ocotober 2 : 80kg

    Squat 18x85 (to failure)
    Chins 10
    Dips 15
    Stiff legged Deadlift 10x97
    Military Press 4x47 and 6x42
    Lateral Raises : 6x12.5 immediately follow by Standing press 6x12.5 (with the same dumbells)
    Dumbells Bench Press : 10x30kg
    Barbell Curl 7x37 immediately follow by bent over rowing 6x37
    Extension 8x37 immediately follow by close grip Bench press 6x37
    Wrist-Curl 10x42
    Calves with dumbells : 16x30
    Crunches 18x10
    Leg raises 23x5

    October 7 : 80kg
    (Now I do Full Squat insteed of partial Squat) "+" = immediately follow

    Full Squat : 12x90kg
    Chins : 11xBW
    Dips : 15xBW+4kg
    SLDL : 8x102
    Standing Press : 4x42 (I lost strenght...)
    Lateral raises : 4x12.5 + Standing press 4x12.5 (also lost strenght)
    Bench press : I skiped it
    Curl : 10x37 + Rowing 8x37
    Triceps Extension : 12x37 + close grip BP : 7x37
    Wrist-Curl : 4x37 + 4x35 (I increase weight too fast)
    Calves with dumbells : 14 and 15 x 35
    Crunches : 20x12.5
    Leg raises : 30x7.5

    I gained strenght on all my lifts except for shoulders. I'll alternate standing press + lateral raises with bench press + flies.

    Chris why do you think I lose strenght on standing press and lateral raises ? Overtrain shoulders ? How is it possible with so low volume

    Anyway I guess the only solution is to decrease frequency (it'll be hard to decrease volume)

    PS all weights are in KG not LBS I'm weak but not that much
    Last edited by Gavan; 10-08-2002 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    That's not low volume. You are doing 13-14 sets a workout. Not only that, but a lot of your work is on small muscles, (biceps, triceps, forearms and calves). I'm not surprised you lost strength on your shoulder lifts. You are doing squats, chins, dips and deads before you do your shoulder work. You might want to consider doing shoulder work on a separate day, or drop it all together as your shoulders are being adequately trained with benchs, deads, dips and chins three times a week.

  8. #8
    *the ONE the ONLY* BennettBoy's Avatar
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    IMO, folks that advocate and get alot out of HIT are more into progressing in terms of gaining strenght. How that equates into them actually taking on more of a muscular bodybuilding type physique is another matter IMHO. I use to visit the HIT forum daily and all the pictures I saw were not what I was aspiring to look like. I'm sure it has value to some. Not to me though.
    peace-

    Craig

  9. #9
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    I did hit and gained a ton of weight very quick. I did the 20 rep squat + 1 gallon of milk a day program. I'm opting not to do it this time because back squats are out of the question for me and I can't conceive doing 20 front squats.

    I also went to ABSOLUTE MUSCULAR FAILURE. Most people don't understand that concept and give up before their muscles do. If I was benching, the bar would be resting on my chest (safety racks were involved) at the end of my set after it slowly lowered there (15+seconds of struggling).

    To each their own. I agree with Chris.

  10. #10
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    btw I don't think the style of training makes your muscles look different. Genetics would be the key there. Maybe they were a little chubbier due to not really caring about BF and focusing on strength progression...

  11. #11
    *the ONE the ONLY* BennettBoy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by galileo
    btw I don't think the style of training makes your muscles look different. Genetics would be the key there. Maybe they were a little chubbier due to not really caring about BF and focusing on strength progression...
    You are correct. I think it was simply most the folks that did HIT on that forum were simply more into getting stronger on their lifts and dieting wasn't that important to them.

    I did HIT for 4-6 months working out only 2 times a week. I was never sold it worked for me. My physique certainly didn't change for the better and I watched my diet pretty darn good.

    It was only when I started doing a higher volume did I start seeing my muscles really start to improve. I know it sounds crazy, but when I started doing 15 sets for chest and like 18 for back, etc......I felt my gains were unreal. And others started commenting that I was getting bigger too.

    In summary, what works for one person may not necessarily work for another. With bodybuilding there isn't one set routine that will work wonders for all. And nutrition is the key most often overlooked by many who lift.
    peace-

    Craig

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    BennettBoy did you increase your lifts EVERY workouts ?
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  13. #13
    *the ONE the ONLY* BennettBoy's Avatar
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    I tried to either increase on reps or put on more weight. I wasn't always successful. And I admit that when I did HIT I had only been lifting less than 1 year so I didn't know as much then as I do now (though I don't know much now LOL). Again, I'm sure HIT works....I just feel very good about using the 4 day split I've been using now for a year or so.
    peace-

    Craig

  14. #14
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Nutrition doesn't play much of a role in bodybuilding in terms of what you eat. In other words, you can gain plenty of muscle while eating fast foods, cakes, and all sorts of other "goodies". Granted, you may add excessive bodyfat, but the notion that eating a "clean" diet will build muscle is b.s. (as opposed to consuming a not so clean diet). You can eat all of the rice and chicken you want, but if you don't train properly you aren't going to gain muscle. The implication when someone says that nutrition is so important to bodybuilding is that if we don't eat traditional "clean" bodybuilding foods we just won't grow. Doesn't work that way. The quantity of food consumed will dictate bodyfat, true, but if one eats sufficient calories, even if they are all fast food and candy, muscle growth will occur at the same rate as if the individual ate only the "cleanest" of foods.

    So, the type and quantity of foods consumed only effect bodybuilding results from a bodyfat perspective, not mass.
    Last edited by chris mason; 10-09-2002 at 01:31 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    lol I didn't see it before : "Bullshit Detector" ahahaha !! extra !

    It seems that only a few tried HIT and as Jones would say : less than ZERO get results lol

    It was the same for Hardgainers and Heavy Duty when I asked about size gains...

    HD and HG are perhaps too low volume/frequency => undertraining.
    with Jones HIT : more volume and also negative sets and/or pre-exhaustion sets.

    Anyway I'll continue to follow Mister Jones for some weeks and see what happend.

    For the Jones fan : "Trust me, I'm from the government, I'm here to help you." Sure.
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  16. #16
    Son of Krypton Majestic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Nutrition doesn't play much of a role in bodybuilding in terms of what you eat. In other words, you can gain plenty of muscle while eating fast foods, cakes, and all sorts of other "goodies".

    The implication when someone says that nutrition is so important to bodybuilding is that if we don't eat traditional "clean" bodybuilding foods we just won't grow. Doesn't work that way.

    The quantity of food consumed will dictate bodyfat, true, but if one eats sufficient calories, even if they are all fast food and candy, muscle growth will occur at the same rate as if the individual ate only the "cleanest" of foods.

    So, the type and quantity of foods consumed only effect bodybuilding results from a bodyfat perspective, not mass.
    I understand your theory of consuming unclean foods during a bulking period, and I'm assuming you believe this because the body doesn't leech the protein for energy as much as it does during a cutting phase.

    Let me ask you this: Are you saying that so long as one consumes enough maintenance calories, or even a little more, that it doesn't matter if they don't consume 1g/1lb. protein a day?

    Let's say you had a Medium size Double Quarter Pounder meal from McDonald's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. If you ordered them with Diet Cokes, you'd be looking at 1,200 calories x 3 meals = 3,600+ calories total calories for the day.

    That would be around 80 grams of protein, which is nowhere near, in fact, not even half of what many people on these forums claim to consume.

    But alas, if 3500 calories was your maintenance level, and you consumed 100 more than that, then would you still theoretically be able to pack on the muscle in spite of what some would label as "inadequate amounts of protein", so long as you had sufficient sleep & effective workouts?

  17. #17
    Wannabebig Member
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    I have had pretty good success with HIT. I started last year when I graduated from highschool and trained from september to december. I used Mentzer's heavy duty 2 program and followed it to the T. I went from 5'10" 127 lbs, yeah I was skinny, and got up to around 142 lbs. I consistently gained about 5 lbs per month. When I hit 142 my BF% was still a low 8%. And this is working out for 20 mins a session working out about 2 times every 8 days. For the next couple of months I worked out with the same program but missed a lot of workouts and in another three months I hit about 148-150 lbs. I quit for about 6 months and dropped back to 137lbs. I started again this september looking to gain 15 lbs like I did before. So far I have gone from 137 lbs to 145 lbs in about 7 weeks. So I am very happy with HIT. I am adding a little more volume to my workouts though because I think I will be able to recover fine from it.

  18. #18
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Majestic


    I understand your theory of consuming unclean foods during a bulking period, and I'm assuming you believe this because the body doesn't leech the protein for energy as much as it does during a cutting phase.

    Let me ask you this: Are you saying that so long as one consumes enough maintenance calories, or even a little more, that it doesn't matter if they don't consume 1g/1lb. protein a day?

    Let's say you had a Medium size Double Quarter Pounder meal from McDonald's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. If you ordered them with Diet Cokes, you'd be looking at 1,200 calories x 3 meals = 3,600+ calories total calories for the day.

    That would be around 80 grams of protein, which is nowhere near, in fact, not even half of what many people on these forums claim to consume.

    But alas, if 3500 calories was your maintenance level, and you consumed 100 more than that, then would you still theoretically be able to pack on the muscle in spite of what some would label as "inadequate amounts of protein", so long as you had sufficient sleep & effective workouts?
    Well first, I don't believe that your protein count is accurate for the hamburgers and fries, is it? Double check that for me. However, if it was correct, then yes, as long as one ate calories in excess of their maintenance level, muscle can be added. Now, I did not say that 100 calories is sufficient, as I am not sure that is the magic number, but eating 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight is certainly not necessary! I am living proof of this (all the proof I need). There are times when I consume a lot of protein daily, but there are others where I consume very little (over extended periods). Calories are more important to the breakdown with regards to building muscle. Carbs are protein sparing. The only time the macronutrient breakdown is truly important is when the calories consumed are so few as to severely limit one's ability to consume proper amounts of nutrients. In those cases, consumption of a high amount of fat may overly limit one's intake of vital nutrients. So, on a severely restricted calorie diet, fat consumption should be minimized.

  19. #19
    Son of Krypton Majestic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Calories are more important to the breakdown with regards to building muscle. Carbs are protein sparing. The only time the macronutrient breakdown is truly important is when the calories consumed are so few as to severely limit one's ability to consume proper amounts of nutrients. In those cases, consumption of a high amount of fat may overly limit one's intake of vital nutrients. So, on a severely restricted calorie diet, fat consumption should be minimized.
    I like the way you phrased that: "Carbs are Protein sparing".

    Of course, it's convenient for me to agree with your overall statement, since that's the philosophy I adhere to.

    I try hard to consume protein during the 3 to 4 meals I eat each day. Usually I do, but sometimes I don't. Either way, there's NO WAY I consume more than 100 grams of protein a day.

    What's funny is that I suspect if you posted your message in another thread, or under the Nutrition forum, you'd have been flamed 10 times by now.

    Lots of "1g/lb of bodyweight" , even while on a bulk, guys over there.

  20. #20
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Anyone who can rationally prove anything different is welcome to flame me.

  21. #21
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Chris, do you think there is such a thing as a clean bulk? From what the way it sounds in your post, that really isn't an option, or are you just putting into perspective the fact that its the calories that really count.
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  22. #22
    Son of Krypton Majestic's Avatar
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    I think a clean bulk is overrated.

    To my knowledge (and like Chris, I like to learn, so speak up if you know differently) you need to be above maintenance, and have sufficient protein intake. That's it.

    Period. Nothing else matters.

    If you consume above maintenance, assuming appropriate protein intake, you'll build mass, and slowly gain weight. The more above maintenance you are, the more fat you will store.

    It won't matter if you're consuming 600 extra calories a day in protein, worms, pizza, or buttermilk, provided you have sufficient protein.

    Now, would you FEEL like shite if you ate pizza every day? Yeah. Same with the buttermilk and the worms.

    No such thing as "decreasing your chances" of storing something as fat. Unused fat will be stored as fat. Unused Slurpee will be stored as fat. Unused protein will be stored as fat. Unused worm will be stored as fat.

    For me, the question is only "what is the minimal protein intake required for optimal growth during a bulk, g/lb",.

    Calculating how high above maintenance one needs to be is difficult, to my understanding. If you eat 6 times a day, then is eating 100 extra calories per meal enough? Who knows. I'm sure it's different for everybody.

    Now, I feel very differently about consumption during a cutting phase. You're eating below maintenance. If your insulin level is sky high, then after all available calories are used up, your body searches for muscle to burn, and depending on your insulin levels, as much muscle may be burned as fat. That's not what you want.

    Of course, there are even some people on this site that feel that those statements are hogwash too. They think that when below maintenance, it will be up to your body to decide where it leeches its energy from.

    To my knowledge, and with my own experience, this is why it may be (appears to be) beneficial to load up on protein during a cutting phase. Loading up for me personally would be 1g/lb. I'm not willing to stuff myself with anything more than that.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    There are many more benefits to a clean diet than just the notion of gaining less fat.

    For me, it is much easier to eat the calories I need from clean food, its easier to not overeat, and keep track of cals. And like you where saying, majestic, I feel a lot better while eating clean than not. I feel more dedicated and tend to have better work outs etc, It feels good to not be one of them. I have bulked in the past semi-clean and am currently bulking on pretty much a cutting diet. I am gaining a lot less fat this time around, probably mostly due to the reasons stated above.

    And finally the health benefits that accompany the way I eat outweigh any desire to eat shitty food. Lowered cholesterol, lowered chance of lots of cancers, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Gaining extra fat is only one of my concerns.

    This is not to argue dispute your claims. Just stating other reasons and another side to the discussion.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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  24. #24
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    I agree with the cals in vs cals out, but if i got most of my calories from junk food, my training would suffer, which would negate the whole idea in first place.
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  25. #25
    hmm, I like to be big!!!
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    Go Master, you tell it to those punks. I agree with Mason, I prefer to have a high protein diet myself, and I think it works for me, but unless yours is skewed very badly, your macronutrient count shouldn't matter. Especially if you've got a HYUUUUGGGGE Diet. The smaller the diet the less it matters, of course im just regurgitating what mason has says but im trying to stress I agree with him to an extrent.
    Chris Mason is my master.....

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