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Thread: The Mind in Lifting...

  1. #76
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    So why don't these people who are training for a big bench put on shirts and go break records at meets then? I don't buy the whole, "I'm not interested in powerlifting bit." If you are in the industry and you have a big bench and can win competitions and are in the business of making money off your weightlifting principles you'd be a fool not to try and get that kind of press. So since you are so keen on your business I am guessing your lift claims are bogus, otherwise you would have marketed them in some way to your advantage, rather than just spreading this BS on the net where you can get away with it.

    Just my thoughts. It seems everyone on the net has the biggest lifts in the world. Oh wait, I forgot, 500lbs is almost common as you said.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 10-17-2002 at 09:23 AM.
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  2. #77
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Here is my beef with the claimed lift, beyond what I posted about Paul Anderson and Doug Hepburn, it doesn't make sense. What I mean by that is GoPro states that he doesn't train for strength anymore, thus he is unable to lift as much weight. LAM makes the same claims. This makes absolutely no sense to me with respect to the large drop in strength these claims are meant to justify. Assuming they are still training progressively with weights, it is virtually impossible. For example, let us say that a trainee is able to lift 500 lbs for 1 rep in the bench press. This trainee has been incorporating low rep training into their regimen, specifically training for power. Now, let us say that the same trainee has adjusted his training for bodybuilding purposes. He has added some exercises and upped the reps on his working sets to 10. So, let us say that he starts with 420 lbs for 10 reps. As time passes, he is able to up that figure to 450 lbs for 10 reps. Guess what happened, he maximum bench press went up. Ok, maybe the argument is that he is no longer bench pressing, deciding to stick with incline dumbbell presses instead (as the main lift for chest). Same argument applies, with the exception that it would take a few sessions with the bench press to reacclimate the nervous system. The point is that if you train progressively with weights, you maximum lifts will not decrease over time, if anything, they should increase, or, even if we would accept that they might decrease, it would be minimally, not some huge amount. Of course, a lot of drug users use this excuse when they cease use of the drugs to mask the fact that they were ever on them. They say, "oh, I am not training for power now." Riiiiighhht......

  3. #78
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    Originally posted by Joey G.
    Just for the record I printed out the original post and put it on the refrigerator at home. As I said before excellent origianl post ! but I don't understand how the original turned into a gopro bashing session. At least give credit where credit is due. Who gives a rat's *ss how much weight someone can lift or if your using juice or not. That wasn't what the original post was about.

    <climbs down off soap box>
    My friend...you may be the most intelligent person on this board! Thanks again.

  4. #79
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    So why don't these people who are training for a big bench put on shirts and go break records at meets then? I don't buy the whole, "I'm not interested in powerlifting bit." If you are in the industry and you have a big bench and can win competitions and are in the business of making money of your weightlifting principles you'd be a fool not to try and get that kind of press. So since you are so keen on your business I am guessing your lift claims are bogus, otherwise you would have marketed them in some way to your advantage, rather than just spreading this BS on the net where you can get away with it.

    Just my thoughts. It seems everyone on the net has the biggest lifts in the world. Oh wait, I forgot, 500lbs is almost common as you said.
    Another stupid post. I am NOT interested at all in powerlifting unless a client comes to me to be trained for a meet. As for myself, I could give a rats ass about winning a powerlifting contest even if I knew I could. Besides, I'm sure there are other guys at my bodyweight that can out bench me...and again I don't care b/c I'm trying to become a pro bbr, not a powerlifter.

    And as to the other part of your post....I do market my training strategies to my advantage...what do you think I do for a living??

    Next...

  5. #80
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Here is my beef with the claimed lift, beyond what I posted about Paul Anderson and Doug Hepburn, it doesn't make sense. What I mean by that is GoPro states that he doesn't train for strength anymore, thus he is unable to lift as much weight. LAM makes the same claims. This makes absolutely no sense to me with respect to the large drop in strength these claims are meant to justify. Assuming they are still training progressively with weights, it is virtually impossible. For example, let us say that a trainee is able to lift 500 lbs for 1 rep in the bench press. This trainee has been incorporating low rep training into their regimen, specifically training for power. Now, let us say that the same trainee has adjusted his training for bodybuilding purposes. He has added some exercises and upped the reps on his working sets to 10. So, let us say that he starts with 420 lbs for 10 reps. As time passes, he is able to up that figure to 450 lbs for 10 reps. Guess what happened, he maximum bench press went up. Ok, maybe the argument is that he is no longer bench pressing, deciding to stick with incline dumbbell presses instead (as the main lift for chest). Same argument applies, with the exception that it would take a few sessions with the bench press to reacclimate the nervous system. The point is that if you train progressively with weights, you maximum lifts will not decrease over time, if anything, they should increase, or, even if we would accept that they might decrease, it would be minimally, not some huge amount. Of course, a lot of drug users use this excuse when they cease use of the drugs to mask the fact that they were ever on them. They say, "oh, I am not training for power now." Riiiiighhht......
    Chris, I do still train for strength, but only inasmuch as it supports my BBing efforts. I regularly use weights in the 4-6 rep range, however, I have eliminated certain lifts from my program b/c I feel they are either worthless to my BBing efforts now (benching is an example as is squats)...or they cause me joint pain.

    I am sure that if I tried to bench press today after not having done it for years that I can still hit over 400...and with some weeks of effort, be back to my former best. But I'm just not interested.

    Next...

  6. #81
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gopro


    Another stupid post. I am NOT interested at all in powerlifting unless a client comes to me to be trained for a meet. As for myself, I could give a rats ass about winning a powerlifting contest even if I knew I could. Besides, I'm sure there are other guys at my bodyweight that can out bench me...and again I don't care b/c I'm trying to become a pro bbr, not a powerlifter.

    And as to the other part of your post....I do market my training strategies to my advantage...what do you think I do for a living??

    Next...
    Well then you are a pretty stupid marketer. If you can actually live up to your claims, and prove it in a lifting meet, you would be able to maximize your number of clients. You could actually claim to be a "winner" of "xyz powerlifing meet" or 2nd place or whatever. Then people would come to you because you have good credibility. But I guess your marketing consists of longwinded posts on things most people have figured out, and complicated posts based on info that is generally incorrect, bundled with bogus lifts, false claims on drug use, and generally taking advantage of the newbie lifter who doesn't critically think for himself to see through your little charades. There are certainly a lot of impressionable people for you to find on the net Gopro, but unfortunately people who do their own research will know better than to believe much of what you state.

    Ps. I would be willing to give you a "Marketing for Dummies" introductory course at a reasonable rate.
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  7. #82
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    GoPro. Doug Hepburn was probably the strongest NATURAL lifter with the expection of Louis Cyr and Paul Anderson. He did 530 lbs in the bench press. You claim you did 500. So basically what you are saying is that you are pretty much in the same league as the top natural weightlifter. Can you now see why people are having problems believing you? When you make a claim like that, you had better be prepared to back it up. If you can't back it up, don't mention it in the first place. Sorry, but you brought this onto yourself. tuttut tuttut

  8. #83
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    great post mental mind set is key when it comes to breaking your goals
    Age 23 Height 5'10 weight 210 2 years complete of serious lifting.
    At 5'10" last Jan/02 I was 280 Lbs with a 44 waist.
    Now as of Dec/02 I am 210 with a 34-36 waist. A year complete 70 pounds lost now lets get big .
    Goal Deadlift 500 by summer now..
    02/10/03 405X3 425X1
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    03/17/03 405X6, "Rack Pulls 505X3, 525X1.... 555X1 Miss"
    04/14/03 465X1 verry difficult
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    05/19/03 435X5
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    10/06/03 500X4 555X1 Miss
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    GOAL for 2004 get back to a low fat% and keep it 8 -10% would be great.
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  9. #84
    hmm, I like to be big!!!
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    OMG, I read this thread and decided to not respond to this garbage by principle, but forget it i owe this board for starting me up, first of all gopro is pulling crap out of his butt like nobody's business. I want some freking GOOD proof you can do what you claim. What gym do you work out in? I live near your area, and I want to see your supergym where everyone benches 500 lbs easily.

    Even your original post is unimpressive, most of it is stuff that we've regurgitated on this board over and over again, as basic as tuck your elbows when you bench, and eat plenty to get larger. I know half the "hardcore" members have a hard on for you because you fed them some crap that anyone moron could have said, and they can't see it, but I can and I'm only 16. So anyone drawn into this try to be less naive. Worst of all this ridiculous, oooo yuo're just jealous because someone lifts more than you crap has to end too, no one jealous of you, if we were we wouldn't be able to disprove you so easily. In fact, its better that you could lift more that we though a natural could because then WE could lift more than we though naturally as well. Thats all im going to say, if you think lying to us is funny Gopro fine, but to all the other members try to ignore his post.
    Chris Mason is my master.....

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  10. #85
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    GoPro, Thanks for your answer, although I could have done without being called a stupid moron because you didn't agree with what I asked.
    "I do declare; still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

  11. #86
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Sad to say it seems to be the trend.

    Anytime he can't answer a question legitimately, the person asking is either an idiot, physically inferior to him, doesn't have his experience, or some combination of the above.

    For someone who's "only here to help" that's not very good behavior.
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  12. #87
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    What I find amusing is when you try to incorporate some muscle physiology you are too "book learned" and don't have sufficient experience, and you must have like 5 or 10 years experience before you know anything, even though much of what he believes is physiologically not true, but he feels it work that way, despite being factually incorrect.

    Oh well...perhaps some people's lives are empty enough they must fill the void with a following of naive internet training newbies that buy into their BS.

    Also, making longwinded posts that just summarize general training concepts that are commonly known by most people that have trained for more than a month, or surfed an internet board for a week doesn't make you a revolutionary thinker, or even well versed in weightlifting. I remember the article he wrote for WBB that was very basic, and also contained quite a bit of content that was just plain wrong if I recall.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 10-17-2002 at 02:59 PM.
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    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

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  13. #88
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    This has been a very entertaining thread....

    I like gopro's initial thread regarding not setting limits. As many of you pointed out, realistic goals are key but I seriously doubt you advocate setting limits...

    I'm gonna set my genetic limit a 400 lb. bench and if, through setting and achieving goals I actually bench 400 lb., then that's it...I can no longer set anymore bench goals because I have reached my limit...

    500 lbs. is a feces load of weight, not impossible....unfortunately the internet allows many people to make claims that never have to be proven....hence I certainly understand the skepticism as only a fool believes everything they read on the net....

    Do I think 500 lb is unreasonable?

    When I was 185 lb. at a Ht. of 6'3....pretty damn skinny obviously...I benched a best of 340 Lb.(damn near blew out my pucker string) and if at that time you asked me if I packed on another 70 lbs. of muscle, could I do 500 , I'd of thought that very possible.... that never happend....beer found me

    The guy I lifted with was a powerlifter competing at 180lbs....his lifts
    Bench 405
    squat 680
    DL 900

    He was natural and DEFINITELY genetically gifted, guy had like 8% BF all the time.....damn was I jealous....I always thought that bar was gonna snap when he squatted...

    I know a 165 lb boxer right now that benches 340 lbs. not a bodybuilder or power lifter....just a strong mofo and hit hard as hell

    So, back to the question....Is 500 lb. bench unreasonable? Not at all, but it take extraordinary genetics, long term mass building and dedication, or juice to get there....and most people will never get there even with a juice IV.

    All I know is that no matter how strong I ever get or have been....225 NEVER FEELS LIGHT

    Just my 1.5 cents
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  14. #89
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Erbas, just to educate you, the world record in the deadlift (to my knowledge) is 925 lbs by a British man named Andy Bolton. He is a superheavyweight lifter. If your friend pulled 900 lbs at 180 lbs, and natural, he would be the biggest superfreak ever. He would also be the uncontested world record holder in the deadlift in his class, and just about every other class. Unfortunately, no 180 lb man have ever pulled 900 lbs.

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    For all of you that posted comments regarding the original thread...thank you for the nice comments and I'm glad the post was inspirational to some of you. The "mind in lifting" is how I treat my life each day and it has proved incredibly successful to me in so many areas. In fact, I try to instill this in my clients as well and they really appreciate that I address the mental/psychological aspect of training and not just the physical. While most of my clients are not going to be world class anything in the world of fitness (b/c the majority just want to be healthy and fit), they still are able to apply the principles behind the "mind in lifting" to fit THEIR goals.

    I do not use the web to market myself. I have no need to. I have been booked to the hilt as a personal trainer since 1992 and my business keeps growing. I simply use the web as a place to reach out to people and try to help them out. I don't get paid for being here and I do it on my free time.

    Anyway, I am not going to spend much more time answering to the crap being spewed by many of the members on here. I know what I can do...know what I have accomplished...and have a clear picture of where I'm going. I will still come over here on occassion to answer questions because I feel the attitude among alot of you here (not all of you b/c there are alot of nice people here) is bad for the members. If you don't like it...too f'n bad.

    I do feel sorry for some of you though because you either are jealous of those who have accomplished more than you or simply do not have enough belief in yourself to dream big and REALLY see what your capable of. People that attack me are just covering up for their own short comings b/c it hurts to much to think you may be failing.

    Go ahead...rip me and this post apart, but I'm not going anywhere unless Hulk bans me and b/c he is a stand up guy he probably won't. I'm not going to apologize for my successes and I'm going to do what I can to help others be their best.

  16. #91
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gopro


    Chris, I do still train for strength, but only inasmuch as it supports my BBing efforts. I regularly use weights in the 4-6 rep range, however, I have eliminated certain lifts from my program b/c I feel they are either worthless to my BBing efforts now (benching is an example as is squats)...or they cause me joint pain.

    I am sure that if I tried to bench press today after not having done it for years that I can still hit over 400...and with some weeks of effort, be back to my former best. But I'm just not interested.

    Next...

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT....ok, so you stopped squatting because they're worthless to bb efforts?? Better tell ChaseChase he's wasting his time then....


    anyway, that aside, if somebody wants to print out that first post, to look at it, feel inspired by that, let them. The source doesn't always matter. I think the original post should be taken with a few caveats, but overall, why not just let that stand. The claims that came after do not effect the overall content of what was originally said. I don't care if the guy is 6 2 140 lbs. (not to bash those of you who are), and has never lifted a day in his life. If that post inspired someone, it did its' job.

  17. #92
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Erbas


    500 lbs. is a feces load of weight,
    BAHAHAHA can I steal the term 'feces load'? pleeeeease

  18. #93
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    Originally posted by Accipiter



    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT....ok, so you stopped squatting because they're worthless to bb efforts?? Better tell ChaseChase he's wasting his time then....


    anyway, that aside, if somebody wants to print out that first post, to look at it, feel inspired by that, let them. The source doesn't always matter. I think the original post should be taken with a few caveats, but overall, why not just let that stand. The claims that came after do not effect the overall content of what was originally said. I don't care if the guy is 6 2 140 lbs. (not to bash those of you who are), and has never lifted a day in his life. If that post inspired someone, it did its' job.
    Two things...

    1) I did not say squats are useless...they are a great exercise for many people. They are just not great for me. I do much much better with hacks and leg presses in terms of thigh development. Please do not take what I said out of context.

    2) I did not destroy this thread. Others did. I put up this post to inspire and it did for a few...but then some people's personal feeling got involved and it turned into a flame war.

    Good idea...I'm going to repost and hope it can just stand on its own (doubt it though).

  19. #94
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    Re: The Mind in Lifting...

    Originally posted by gopro
    99 % of the training forum is dedicated to technique, exercises, routines, etc, as it should be. However, what can really set apart the good from the monumental...a great workout from a mind boggling one, is in your mind. Here are some things to remember when going to the gym...

    1-BE POSITIVE...go into the gym with a good attitude toward training. Believe you will do better. Believe this workout will bring you closer to your goals.

    2-VISUALIZE...before you get to the gym "see yourself" in your mind's eye lifting heavier, feeling stronger, and successfully completing all sets in your workout.

    3-BE AGGRESSIVE...don't just lift the weights, attack them! Treat every rep as if it were your last. Lift like your life is on the line. Do whatever it takes to psych yourself up...yell, growl, think about things that piss you off, hit yourself in the head...get mad!

    4-FOCUS...don't talk while lifting. Don't look around. Think about what you are doing, the muscle you are working. The mind muscle connection is REAL!

    5-DON'T GET DOWN...if you don't break a record or don't have a great first set, DO NOT let that set the tone for the rest of your workout! Regroup. Leave failure behind. KNOW your next set will be better, and that each set after that will be EVEN BETTER!

    6-DON'T GET COMPLACENT...pat yourself on the back after a great set or productive workout, but then, think to yourself how you will destroy your accomplishments in this workout in your next one. Your body is very adaptive, you must push further to progress to the next level.

    7-DREAM...don't set limits. F the studies that say you can only get "so big." Screw those that say you can only grow really huge if on steroids. Your body is only limited by where your mind is willing to take you. There are no limits!!!!!!!!!!!!




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  20. #95
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    Originally posted by Erbas
    All I know is that no matter how strong I ever get or have been....225 NEVER FEELS LIGHT
    LOL.... Isn't that the truth !!!
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  21. #96
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    Chris....oooops! that's my bad it was supposed to be 700 lb.....justification for proof reading....apologies to the thread readers. Point being....a strong mofo for his weight. All I know is he taught me to NEVER lift weights with a friend who is a nationally ranked powerlifter....I wore myself out just moving 45lb. plates...load the bar for him...unload the bar for me...whew! That chupa'd

    Now you can be "Bullsh*t/Typo Detector"

    Accipiter: steal away..

    gopro: I thought your post was cool.....and if there are morons out there who take "No limits" to mean they can go bench a 1000 lbs when their best is 100 ....well...Darwin Award

    This one time, at band camp I saw a 120 lb guy try to squat 1000 lbs after an inspirational speech.....squished himself...he now has to put his nads on a roller skate to keep from rubbing strawberries on them when he walks....true story.....really....
    Intensity!!! Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!

  22. #97
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Erbas


    gopro: I thought your post was cool.....and if there are morons out there who take "No limits" to mean they can go bench a 1000 lbs when their best is 100 ....well...Darwin Award

    *** I can't think of a better way to insult the moderators and many of our well repsected vets here including myself.
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    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  23. #98
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    Originally posted by Maki Riddington


    *** I can't think of a better way to insult the moderators and many of our well repsected vets here including myself.
    Its not an insult. He just gets the point!

  24. #99
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,668
    I think this has gone just about far enough into the weeds.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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