The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Diet

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    I am looking to drop some bodyfat while maintaining my size. I am about 5' 9" and 160 with under 10% bf. I am entering in a competion this fall so i am starting to prepare.

    Workout in morning from 6-7:30

    Meal one
    Protein Shake
    1 Cup Oats Dry
    Glutumine
    1 Tbsp Flax Seed

    Meal two
    2 cans Tuna
    Celery

    Meal three
    1-2 Chicken Breast
    Raw Spinach

    Meal four
    5 eggs whites
    1 Whole Egg
    1 Tbsp Flax Seed

    Meal Five
    1 Cup Cottage Cheese
    Protein Bar

    Meal Six
    Protein Shake Before bed

    Protein-263
    Carbs-81
    fat-65
    Total Cals~2000

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  3. #2
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Well, on that diet I don't think you'll have a problem losing some bodyfat. But I'd reconsider that amount of fat. It looks kind of low to me. On that amount of carbs, I'd increase the fat to around 80-100g just to keep your energy a little higher. Also, are you lifting in the moring on an empty stomach?? (PLEASE say no!)
    Last edited by Spiderman; 06-19-2001 at 07:46 AM.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  4. #3
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Spidey- how bad is AM lifting for you? I have some idea, but not much. I can only lift early AM right now, and I do have a small glutamine/protein/carb shake before, but there's not enough time for a meal. (I wake up at 5:30 as it is).

  5. #4
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Belial,
    For before your workout thats good IMO. Just as long as you have SOME sort carbs and protein before you lift. There are several people who don't eat anything before lifting in the morning and thats wrong. It just causes muscle tissue breakdown via gluconeogenesis. (Breaking down AA's to make ATP). So, yes, that protein/carb shake is fine. How long before you lift are you taking it?

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  6. #5
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I have the stuff sitting in the shaker bottle next to my bed. i chug it the second I wake up, and end up actually lifting about 30-45 minutes later. It's pretty light: about 15 grams protein, 20 grams carbs, 10 extra grams of glutamine. Much more than that and I'd have to wait too long to digest.

  7. #6
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Well, being that its liquid then it'll be digested sooner than whole food. I'd suggest taking double that amount and see how it goes. Perhaps add 16 oz of skim milk to it. That will add another 16 g of protein and about 24-26 g carbs. This will bump the calories up from 140 to somewhere between 300 and 310. See how that works for ya.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  8. #7
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea. I wanted to avoid too many calories, though. Milk doesn't digest very quickly; I'd sooner add some more whey and simple carbs.... But if i keep having crappy workouts like the one this morning, i'll bump up the cals....

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    I usually don't have any thing but i will start to have a shake on the days I lift but not on the days I am doing Cardio In the morning, how does that sound?

  10. #9
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    That sounds like an excellent idea Hock. Keep us posted bro.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  11. #10
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    Spidey, you said that the body will break down muscle to produce ATP if you don't eat anything before you workout. But, since ATP is the fuel for ALL muscular contraction, and during aerobic exercises the Type I fibers will be contracting - doesn't that mean the body will need ATP to fuel that contraction? The body can't produce ATP from fat because the body can't metabolise fat into glucose. In addition, Type I fibers have the greatest mitochondrial density of the muscle fibere, which means they will need more ATP for contraction than IIB fibers, which are generally the targeted fiber in anaerobic activity - weight training.

    So, why would morning weight training be bad, but morning cardio good?

  12. #11
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Cack,
    A few things before I get to your question. First of all, I know the body can't produce ATP from fat. Secondly, Type I and Type IIA fibers have the about the same mitochondrial density. Yet all the fibers have several DIFFERENT properties. I'm not saying morning weight training is bad, (nor did I ever) I said that its bad to do it in the morning on an empty stomach. Now to the topic at hand...

    During endurance exercise the two major sources of energy are carbs in the form of muslce glycogen and fat in the from of free fatty acids. (FFA's) The energy from FFA's comes from the serum triglyceride levels. Since this is in relatively short supply it must be constantly replenished. Thus an enzyme (hormone sensitive lipase--HSL) catabolizes the intracellular triglycerides into FFA's and glycerol. These are released into the blood, bound to albumin and transported to the muscle cell for immediate energy metabolism via aerobic glycolysis.(within the mitochondria) I'm not saying that fat is the only source, but in highly trained individuals it is the more predominant one. Although your muscle does contract in cardio, it is not as much as weight training. The twitch contraction time in Type I is slow and force production is low as well Thus not as much contraction in cardio as weight training. Do you see my point?

    Weight training is another story altogether. Because weight training is anaerobic and does not use oxygen it will NOT be able to use fat for energy. Fat needs oxygen to be used as fuel, thats a fact. Since you brought up the topic of Fiber types let me display some properties of fiber types. You know Type II are predominantly used for anaerobic activity.
    Each fiber type has its own enzymatic properties. Type I have High levels of oxidative enzymes, Type IIA have the same level and Type IIB have LOW oxidative enzymatic levels. (I'll neglect the Glycolytic and Myosin-ATPase enzymes since those are not the specific topic at hand) This being said and knowing that fat needs oxygen to be burned you can come to the conclusion that lifting weights won't burn fat. Anaerobic activity uses carbs for energy and when carbs are not in good supply, protein will be broken down for energy. The mechanism by which this occurs is called Gluconeogenesis. Specifically, the common pathway is called the Glucose-Alanine Cycle. This is when Glucose is made in the liver from pyruvic acid that is carried there in the form of alanine; the alanine being originally formed in the muscle by combining -NH2 radicals from metabolized amino acids with pyruvate.
    Information taken from A. Spideys head and B. FOX'S PHYSIOLOGICAL BASIS FOR EXERCISE AND SPORT (pgs 149-150, 600)

    Hope this answered your question.
    Last edited by Spiderman; 06-21-2001 at 03:45 PM.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  13. #12
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Oh.

    so this is where my dead horse has been hiding.

    *smacks horse with a baseball bat*
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  14. #13
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    Cack and Spidey,
    You both know that the body can't produce ATP from fat, but, fortunately, you're both wrong. Get a biochemistry book and look up beta oxidation of fatty acids. That should help to clear up some misconceptions. Also, you can find a good review article entitled "The Regulation of Carbohydrate and Fat Metabolism During and After Exercise" at www.bioscience.org. Click on "articles" and then look for this article in Volume 3, beginning on page d1011
    Last edited by Taras; 06-21-2001 at 08:12 PM.

  15. #14
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    oooops..... Sorry Taras. I really did know that, but
    sometimes I miss/forget things like that. Thanks for the heads up bro.
    Last edited by Spiderman; 06-21-2001 at 09:01 PM.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  16. #15
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I knew that.

    *Feels smart*



    However, is everyone ignoring:

    fatty acid --[oxidation]--> Acetyl CoA --[citric acid cycle]-[oxidative phosphorylation]--> ATP?

    This can occur even during rest, no? Even though the body may be operating anaerobically during the set, can't this process create ATP from fatty acids during rest periods between bursts of anaerobic exercise? i.e., unlike aerobic exercise where oxygen levels are sufficient to allow continuous, sufficient oxidation, can't the ATP be at least significantly replenished by fatty acids during between-set recovery?

  17. #16
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    "During endurance exercise the two major sources of energy are carbs in the form of muslce glycogen and fat in the from of free fatty acids. (FFA's)"

    Under which conditions? Based on this info it's impossible to lose muscle during aerobic exercise. Doing cardio before breakfast = doing cardio with depleted liver glycogen. In order to get glucose, the liver will take alanine and arginine among other things from the muscles through gluconeogenesis. This is muscle atrophy.

    "The energy from FFA's comes from the serum triglyceride levels. Since this is in relatively short supply it must be constantly replenished. Thus an enzyme (hormone sensitive lipase--HSL) catabolizes the intracellular triglycerides into FFA's and glycerol. These are released into the blood, bound to albumin and transported to the muscle cell for immediate energy metabolism via aerobic glycolysis."

    That's not how I understand it. Glycogen is broken down to provide the energy for ATP formation and and also the formation of pyruvic acid. Additionally, some blood glucose may be used in this process, along with the intramuscular glycogen. One of the end products of this mechanism is lactic acid, which is made by the eventual conversion of pyruvic acid. This mechanism can provide more total energy than the phosphagen system, but not as quickly. This being the case, anaerobic glycolysis is the major energy pathway for muscular contractions lasting from ~30 to ~60 seconds. The effects that the lactic acid (which is produced during this process) has on muscular contraction must be considered here. Lactic acid build-up in the muscle cells makes the interior of the muscle more acidic. This acidic environment interferes with the chemical processes that expose actin cross-bridging sites and permit cross-bridging. It also interferes with ATP formation. So, these factors, along with depleted energy stores, cause the muscle fibers to become fatigued and contraction to cease.

    "I'm not saying that fat is the only source, but in highly trained individuals it is the more predominant one. Although your muscle does contract in cardio, it is not as much as weight training. The twitch contraction time in Type I is slow and force production is low as well Thus not as much contraction in cardio as weight training. Do you see my point?"

    I see your point, but I don't understand it. First, why would fat be the primary source in highly trained individuals over muscle? Keeping in mind the bodies primary function being survival. The amount of contraction would depend on the specific exercise. Here's what I don't get - mitochondria contain oxidative enzymes and actually consume oxygen during exercise and convert the chemical energy contained in fat and carbohydrate to ATP that can be used by the cell to support contraction. Ultimately, via enzymatic processes occurring first in the sarcoplasm and then the mitochondria, glucose and fat molecules (and certain amino acids) are broken down and combined with oxygen to form ATP, heat, carbon dioxide, and water. The thing is, for us people with more muscle mass, and less fat, and no liver glycogen, depleted muscle glycogen...where do you think the energy is going to come from? The energy for oxidative phosphoylation comes from carbs and fat WHEN NOT IN STARVATION. When we wake up in the morning and do our cardio on an empty stomach we ARE in starvation, so MUSCLE is the primary source of energy. Get it?

  18. #17
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
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    Bollox.
    * * * * * * * * *
    Yates

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    'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind'

  19. #18
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    *smacks self with with baseball bat*
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  20. #19
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Cack,
    I don't care if thats how you understand it or not. See the little reference I made? MOST of this information came from a book. At least I'm putting up a reference for my information. Perhaps you'd like the names of the authors so's you can call them and argue the point with EXPERTS in the field?

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  21. #20
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    LOL...

    I think you are misinformed, Spidey.

  22. #21
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
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    bollox.
    * * * * * * * * *
    Yates

    hard core n. 1 irreducible nucleus. 2 colloq. a the most committed members of a society


    'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind'

  23. #22
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    No, I'm not mis-informed at all Cack. How come my post is exactly what I learn in class from my professor who has a PHD in exercise physiology?? Are you gonna tell him he's mis-informed? I don't think so...I"m willing to bet we both my professor and I know more and have forgotten more than you will ever learn on the subject. Add to that I tire of this little game of yours... You will get no more responses from me on this subject matter.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  24. #23
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by YatesNightBlade
    STFU and lift.

  25. #24
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    Bwahahahahaha....

    You're so stupid it's funny.

  26. #25
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    *smacks spidey and cack with baseball bat*

    *smacks dead horse yet again, then smacks self*


    ~~^~~^~~~~^^~~~~^^~~~~~~~~~(blackout)
    Last edited by Tryska; 06-22-2001 at 07:45 AM.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

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