The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
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    Actually, just check out this page:

    Guess what!

  2. #52
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    My carb sources: oats and sweet potatoes.

    That's as "grainy" as I get.
    "human kind/
    Cannot bear very much reality/
    Time past and time future/
    What might have been and what has been / Point to one end, which is always present."

    -T.S. Eliot. "Four Quartets."

    "Redistribution [of wealth] is in effect far less a redistribution of free income from the richer to the poorer, as we [had] imagined, than a redistribution of power from the individual to the State."
    -Jouvenal

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  3. #53
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    its funny how im going to argue a side of the issue that i dont even agree with in its most common application (i.e. as an argument against eating meat. i am totally for eating meat. i just have to speak up because i think there are some funky things being said).

    First, i think it's silly to take the "let's go back to our roots millions of years ago and eat what it is that they ate because that is what is best for us" approach. That is too extreme. Sure, natural is better in many cases, but this is such an extreme version of that. There are a million and a half things that are TOTALLY different about our lifestyles now. Look at two different people today and you will see that their nutritional needs vary even from each other. How then can we look back and hope to draw a parallel that will make any sense between ourselves and our ancestors millions of years ago?

    That aside (we'll pretend I don't object to that and move on to my next objection), man has not always been able to hunt. Man has not always eaten meat. In order to eat meat humans had to be able to kill things (although there are some theories that humans scavanged for meat as well as hunting for it, but these are i believe relatively recent and not fully supported theories yet, so we'll exclude them for now). Therefore we had to have weapons. Before people had made weapons, what did they eat? Whatever they could scavange from the land. While it was not cultivated, it was still plant based, and therefore carbohydrate based. Even once early hominids had the tools to kill animals, they had to learn how to work cooperatively and hunt in groups in order to make it a more available food source. I just think its humorous that because plant based food sources are seasonal, that is seen as the less useful and less available food source. What about the fact that the just as plant availability varies with the seasons, so too animal availability varies with the plants. And animals can run away! You can find animals but if you cannot kill them, you're still screwed. If you find the plants, they can't run away! You've found food. You're set.

    Ok, I am slightly simplifying things and overstating my point here because I felt like it. But I just wanted to point out that while meat was an important food source for early humans, so too were plant-based foods. That's all.

  4. #54
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    Originally posted by restless
    Yes diet was diferent from place to place, but like current hunter gatherers the diet was mainly from animal sources (65% or more).
    usually 65% is requarded as the upper limit. Which creates a moderate fat, moderate carbs (35%+ from plant sources) moderate protien diet, not a ketogenic diet.
    Perhaps in leaner months there would have been ketogenic periods, but these would have also been related to starvation as well.
    The actual protein content as a % of energy was reaching a maximum of ~35%
    At the worst, keto is as healthy as any other diet. [/B]
    No, at worst (a la atkins induction) a keto diet is a utter disaster, very few cultures ate such a high saturated fat diet A lower carb diet can be excellent, especially when filled with fruits and vegeatables and unsaturated fats.

    Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

    And yet the incidence of heart disease, diabetes and atherosclerosis is greater now than then. What does that tell you?
    It tells you nothing. Advances in medicine and health care has increased life expectancy.
    Nobody in history has lived as long, so we are starting to suffer the consequences. We also suffer from a planet that is ravaged by natural and man-made toxins that have never existed. We are also the utmost laziest generation ever. Crap general diet and obesity is the cause of most health probelms. Carbs are not the cause of everything, excess calories and doing nothing is.
    And atherosclerosis is NOT at the highest levels ever, maybe in russia and some of the old communist states, but not in the western world. Sure most of it is from medical care, but that is hard to statistically measure.
    But give it a few years and there will be an epidemic of heart disease, thanks to the lovely epidemic of diabetes (once again excess calories and little activity)

  5. #55
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    To just some girl (and also to noraa). You are right in your assumptions, but my point hasn't really taken a hit. From around 2 million (a bit less on some places) years till now, man had a diet composed mainly of animal sources, most genes were formed on a relatively high meat diet and as I assume you know, trough the generations there will be a natural selection of those who have the genes more fit to the surrounding environment, like is happening these days with our diets. Some people do tolerate grains better than others.

    Of course there were times when we were just gatherers and not hunters, especially around the time we were our last relative to apes and not humans yet. Meat consumption increased singificantly as we evolved to what we are today. And any way you look at it, grains weren't a big part of our diet till very recently. And for the record, the rest of the calories that weren't meat weren't necessarily carbs. Nuts were also a big part of our diet as these are very caloricly dense.

    The fact is, and has been proven by fossil records, man had a worst health in the Neolithic (Agricultural man). This was due to changes in diet, particulary increased carb intake and lowered protein.

    Keto diets shouldn't really have entered this conversation. I mentioned that in response to some other poster that brought it up. My bad.

    I also do agree that if the types of fats are not taken in regard keto can be unhealthy, I just assumed that you could see that I was implying proper fats should be used.

    In the rest of your post, noraa, you basically agree with things that I said before.
    Last edited by restless; 10-20-2002 at 04:16 AM.

  6. #56
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    Originally posted by noraa


    We also suffer from a planet that is ravaged by natural and man-made toxins that have never existed.

    Yes, unfortunately the agricultural revolution that allowed us to produce all the wonderfull things we have today also allowed us to overpopulate the hearth to the point of doing some pretty hard to repair damage. Funny, isn't it?

  7. #57
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    restless - you state that due the inability to make fire, they could not cook grains. Does that mean you eat or your meat raw as that is how the body would have evolved to use it.

    plus on the peroid of time, when the death rate increased. Men settled in camps. these were unhygienic and full of infectious disease which were less common before as humans did live in the waste.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  8. #58
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    I never said that it was the inabilty to make fire that prevented from eating grains. It wasn't. It was:

    The fact that grains could never be a viable calorie source is due to various reasons:

    First is the considerably smaller size of wild grains. Domesticated grains were "artificially" selcted to always breed the bigger seeds possible so the grains we know now are considerably larger than they were at that time, or still are in wild nature.
    Second is the fact that they weren't laid out in a single field all cute like they are now. You had to walk aorund all day long (or at least for considerable amounts of time) to obtain a couple of hundreds of grains that would provide a measly amount of calories. Not viable in any way, and there's no way around this untill agriculture happened.
    Third is the lack of proper utensils to process grains, namely those necessary to grind and boil them. Ever tried to eat raw rice? It will come out just the same it went in.

    So grains could never constitute a considerable part of our calories. It was meat (including small mammals as rats, snakes, some fish, insects, bugs,yek!!), some tubs, nuts, wild fruits, some vegetables and in some cultures there is evidence of small grain comsumption in specific areas dating around 50 000 years ago.

    These are well researched facts. I find this subject absolutely fascinating.
    Last edited by restless; 10-20-2002 at 04:13 AM.

  9. #59
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    with out researching it imagine they ate basically the whole of the animal as well - brains, eyes, penis etc
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  10. #60
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    Correct, they did eat all the organs.

  11. #61
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Restless - The website you reference seems more like propaganda than science but I'll read some more.

    In any case, carbs does not necessarily = grains. Overeating of refined grains is a big nutritional problem in our society among many others.

    That being said, if you're trying to put forth the thesis that since cavemen ate very low carbs that that is what is healthiest for our lifestyles today then I'm afraid that thesis is as of yet unproven.

    If I've misstated your viewpoint then feel free to correct me.

    Also, what I said that the long term health of a ketosis inducing diet is what I question, as opposed to normal variations of what I consider a "balanced diet".
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  12. #62
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    i do feel a lot of this is comparing a ancient diet, with a high refined carb diet. which is not recommend either.
    I have seen to many keto diet trying to compare keto with high refined high GI carbs diets.

    Not unrefined low/med carbs deits with meduim amounts of carbs in them.

    But this is a problem with people making money they always use the worst case diet from another group of people to get there point across.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  13. #63
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    Originally posted by hemants
    Restless - The website you reference seems more like propaganda than science but I'll read some more.

    Did they try to sell you anything? Not sure I'm following you....Most of what's in those articles is backed with peer-reviewed references, so I don't see what you mean.

    Body, sorry man but I could not understand your last post.
    Last edited by restless; 10-20-2002 at 09:00 AM.

  14. #64
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    i was making reference to one of your links. the women who did the study.

    she compared a anceint diet(high fat) versus a High refined carb diet.

    which is the worst carb diet out.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  15. #65
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    just to clarify - we are talkign about grains, not vegetables, fruits, tubers, nuts and seeds. all of those are easily forageable.


    grains however, as restless said, didn't really provide easy nutrition. now i'm sure when people came across a patch of grains in full seed, they took advantage of that, but in order to process those grains, they would need tools, specifically at the very least a hammerstone and fire. Which would be stone age, obviously. And people spend too much time presuming we didn't have very sophisticated cultures, capable of hunting, fishing, praying, with there own social structures, and strictures, jsut because they didn't necessarily have the "finer things in life". Again, hubris.

    give stone-age man some credit. they had to be relatively smart and adaptable to spawn us. My Point is....there are foods we can digest easily, and assimilate easily.

    there are other foods we need to process several times over to digest, and even then they cause problems.

    think of them like you think of liquor. it's good stuff....but hard to digest and metabolize, and can cause long-term problems if you consume enough, often enough.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


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  16. #66
    YaRgHHhH~ Stray's Avatar
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    There's one thing your all not taking into account...in several episodes I CLEARLY saw Fred Flintstone using a grill to cook his slabs of brontosaurus steak...Barney was there as well.


    Point moot.
    -Stray-

    "When you are not practicing, remember, someone somewhere is practicing, and when you meet him he will win." - Ed Macauley

    I work out because I have two daughters.....and one day they'll be teenagers.

  17. #67
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    for the people who want a diet similar to our ancestors

    Are you eating brains, insects, rats etc? If your going to eat like them, you might as well do it properly?
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  18. #68
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    LOL

  19. #69
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    Originally posted by Stray
    There's one thing your all not taking into account...in several episodes I CLEARLY saw Fred Flintstone using a grill to cook his slabs of brontosaurus steak...Barney was there as well.


    Point moot.
    fred was fat.

    though betty. yep she would get it.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  20. #70
    YaRgHHhH~ Stray's Avatar
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    I need to get ahold of whatever was in Bambam's bottle...
    -Stray-

    "When you are not practicing, remember, someone somewhere is practicing, and when you meet him he will win." - Ed Macauley

    I work out because I have two daughters.....and one day they'll be teenagers.

  21. #71
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Originally posted by body
    for the people who want a diet similar to our ancestors

    Are you eating brains, insects, rats etc? If your going to eat like them, you might as well do it properly?

    if it was offered to me, yeah. i'm not a big fan of organ meats tho. especially not with BSE and whatnot. (mostly due to the way animals are raised these days.) but if i were in china or australia eating with aborigines i'd eat the same protein they eat. the way i look at it, if it's been working well for them over all this time, how bad can it be. i'm a bit more open-minded like that tho.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  22. #72
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    I am just a pig so I will eat (try) anything. so it does not bother me to much.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  23. #73
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    Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


    Brad, too much protein can keep a person out of ketosis. And not enough fat can prevent ketone body production.

    .
    Thanks dood.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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