The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Hamstring/Gastro Stretching

    I've often wondered about this but never was bored enough to ask..

    Ok so why is it that when I stretch my hamstring with my ankle plantar flexed, then move my ankle to dorsi flexion while holding the stretch in my ham, the stretch sensation behind the knee joint increases? This doesn't make much sense to me. The hams shouldn't care about ankle movement and the gastros shouldn't care about the hips. I mean, there's no triarticular muscle in the legs, so what gives? I'm guessing fascia connecting the two muscle groups, but I really don't know. Maki, what do you think about this?

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  3. #2
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    Delphi might have an idea as well . . . *BUMP*

  4. #3
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Its not the hamstring that's tightening. Its the gastroc, which runs behind the knee also. When you dorsiflex the ankle, it lengthens and thusly feels "tight."
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  5. #4
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    Right, but why is it that the gastro's stretch is affected by hip flexion? Being a biarticulate muscle, it should only be affected by ankle and knee articulations, but the stretch is greater when you dorsiflex, extend the knee, and flex at the hip joint as well..

  6. #5
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    What you're experiencing is a combination of the two muscles. The hamstring IS affected by angle of knee flexion; add the tension of the stretched gastroc on top of that, and there's your answer.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  7. #6
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bong Hog
    Right, but why is it that the gastro's stretch is affected by hip flexion? Being a biarticulate muscle, it should only be affected by ankle and knee articulations, but the stretch is greater when you dorsiflex, extend the knee, and flex at the hip joint as well..
    *** What you feel is most likely the stretching of the gastroc's tendon of origin. Not a good thing since there is no muscle behind the knee. Why there is more of a intense stretch behind the knee when both the ankle is dorsiflexed and the hip is flexed is a good question. I belive it has to do with overstretching the hamstrings . What you're feeling is the tendon again. The feeling you feel can be subdued to a great degree by limiting the angle of flexion at the hips. If you slightly flex the hips the stretch won't be as intense as opposed to flexing the hips to 90 degrees.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  8. #7
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    Power, I understand where the muscles insert and how they are stretched. Are you just saying that I'm feeling two tendons stretch instead of one? That doesn't explain why hip ROM is lost when the ankle is dorsi flexed.

    Maki, overstretching the hamstrings? So again does this mean that the tendons are somehow connected at the knee joint?

    Here's what I think it might be.. The gastrocs tendons run under the hamstrings tendons behind the knee joint. Therefore, could it be the gastrocs tightening causing the hamstrings to "raise" the hamstrings off the back of the knee joint? Is this what you guys were getting at?

    Maki, it's a bad thing to feel stretch at a tendon origin? What's it mean if I do?

  9. #8
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bong Hog
    [B]

    Maki, overstretching the hamstrings? So again does this mean that the tendons are somehow connected at the knee joint?

    *** No, they are connected medially and laterally in regards to the knee joint, although I think that is a very vauge description.


    Here's what I think it might be.. The gastrocs tendons run under the hamstrings tendons behind the knee joint. Therefore, could it be the gastrocs tightening causing the hamstrings to "raise" the hamstrings off the back of the knee joint? Is this what you guys were getting at?

    *** No, that was not what I was getting at. I simply said it was the tendon being elongated which is not good.

    Maki, it's a bad thing to feel stretch at a tendon origin? What's it mean if I do?

    *** Well you can't stretch a tendon. Any stretching will result in microscopic tearing. A tendon can only elongate up to aproximately 3%. Any more and it will rupture.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  10. #9
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bong Hog
    That doesn't explain why hip ROM is lost when the ankle is dorsi flexed.

    *** Maybe because the hip cannot be completely flexed unless the knee-joint is also flexed? Something to do with the shortness of the hamstring bla bla bla....
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  11. #10
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    Originally posted by Maki Riddington


    *** Maybe because the hip cannot be completely flexed unless the knee-joint is also flexed? Something to do with the shortness of the hamstring bla bla bla....
    That doesn't explain how hamstring tightness is affected by dorsi flexion. (Or how the f* gastroc tightness could be affected by hip flexion.)

    The gastroc and the hamstrings seem somehow connected behind the knee joint, so that the tension of one adds to the tension of the other. Very, very strange. I cannot comprehend. You don't think it could have anything to do with the fact that the tendons from each other do overlap?

  12. #11
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bong Hog


    That doesn't explain how hamstring tightness is affected by dorsi flexion. (Or how the f* gastroc tightness could be affected by hip flexion.)

    The gastroc and the hamstrings seem somehow connected behind the knee joint, so that the tension of one adds to the tension of the other. Very, very strange. I cannot comprehend. You don't think it could have anything to do with the fact that the tendons from each other do overlap?
    *** Ok, looking at the gastroc and dorsi flexion you will see that the gastroc is in a lengthened position. Now bend the knee and the gastroc shortens so you won't feel an intense stretch anymore. This is because it helps flex the knee. It's contracting as the joint angle decreases. Now throw in the hips and you flex them and you'll feel an even more intense stretch when the ankle is dorsiflexed. This is because the medial and lateral heads of the gastroc originate at the condyles of the femur. Now the biceps femoris inserts at the tibia (proximal lateral), the semitendinosus as well and the semimembranosus inserts at the medial condyle of the tibia. So this means they both cross each other and the knee joint. One attaches above the knee joint and one attaches below. Because of the fact that most people have shortened hamstrings (tight) and that they act at two joints it creates a shortness (since the muscle is being lengthened if you increase the angle of flexion at the hips), add in the gastroc and dorisflexion with a straight knee and you have a counter type pulling of the joints. Technically every movement is really a pulling movement since the muscles pull on the bones to move the joint it acts upon.

    So that's why I think it's really the tendons that you feel.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

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