The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Lat development

  1. #51
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    looks similar to mine GIS, but I can't do shrugs everytime, my traps get WAY too out of proportion if I do. I don't think that's overtraining by any means

  2. #52
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever


    I'm not calling you out, by any means, but what makes you think that volume isn't overtraining?
    It's overtraining for some, and it's not for others. It depends on ones genetic capabilities.

  3. #53
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar
    BCC:

    Out of curiosity what grip does your partner use on bentover rows? Also imagine how much larger his back / lats would be if he incorporated chins into his routine.
    Overhand grip. Not too wide.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  4. #54
    MACHINE
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    Regardless of back genetics, strength, steroids, training results, etc, the bottom line is this: Pulldowns and pullups require more lat involvement than do rows, therefore they are more efficient and effective movements for working the lats.

    Good genetics often don't show up until someone starts working out, so what they looked like before could be irrelevant. One of my friends was a fricken beanpole a year ago, about 6', 150 lbs and looked like he wouldn't find much success in weight training. He didn't hava ANY impressive bodyparts. He started working out, and put on 35 lbs, and it turns out his shoulders responded unbelievably to training. He benches 285 now, and has some unbelievable delts for his size. You would have never known before though. Does he have those great shoulders because of what he does or doesn't do in the gym? No. That's just how his delts responded to training.

    My legs were so small relative to my upper body when I was younger that kids called me chicken legs when I wore shorts. Now, they're 26" and I train them only once every 2 weeks with relatively low intensity because that's all I need.
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

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  5. #55
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    I think again, your body responds different to different exercises. For me, when I do chins, I feel more shoulder and pec involvement. Yeah, I do feel my lats some, but nothign compared to any row movement.

  6. #56
    Strongman PowerBuilder bob2624's Avatar
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    wg pullups, lat pulls and flat bench... that's all you need
    hmmmmmmm... will i ever be big enough?

    Age- 17
    Height- 5'10"
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    RAW lifts
    Bench- 225(1)
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    Squat-285(1)

  7. #57
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    flat bench? for back?


    k, anyway




    Now, about chins being better than rows. I disagree, and here's my logic. If I do chins first, and then rows, my row weight does not suffer. However, if I do rows first, and then chins, I can hardly do anything for chins. It would seem that rows are a more exhaustive exercise for the chest. However, if you are claiming that chins work a part of the lat, that is not worked by rows, and thus are neccesary for that reason, I could understand it better. However, for overall lat development, I see no reason for both chins and rows heavy, in the same session

  8. #58
    Simply Devious Rastaman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Accipiter
    Now, about chins being better than rows. I disagree, and here's my logic. If I do chins first, and then rows, my row weight does not suffer. However, if I do rows first, and then chins, I can hardly do anything for chins.

    I've experienced the same thing.
    "The only sin which we never forgive in each other is difference of opinion."
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson


    Word.

  9. #59
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Me two.
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    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  10. #60
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Yeah! Down with chins!
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  11. #61
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    when I do chins, my second set amount of reps drops a lot.
    Its even worse If I have done rows.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  12. #62
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Now, about chins being better than rows. I disagree, and here's my logic. If I do chins first, and then rows, my row weight does not suffer. However, if I do rows first, and then chins, I can hardly do anything for chins. It would seem that rows are a more exhaustive exercise for the chest.
    Wow, I just read this and had to respond. Theres no way that friggin' chins do not activate as much of the lats as do rows. I mean I dont know about you guys, but chins I feel completely in my lats. Right under my damn armpits. Rows I feel in my back too---but it seems that rows I feel more in my mid-traps, etc.

    Opinions on this?

  13. #63
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Accipiter
    Now, about chins being better than rows. I disagree, and here's my logic. If I do chins first, and then rows, my row weight does not suffer. However, if I do rows first, and then chins, I can hardly do anything for chins.
    I agree with your observation, but not with your conclusion. At least for me, anyway. The reason your rows don't suck after doing chins is that you don't use lats as much as traps for rows. You've fatigued your lats on chins, but it's the traps that are worked harder for rows,

    You need every ounce of power from your lats for chins, but doing rows first uses up enough of your lats to make the chins harder or impossible.


    Another observation I've made recently: I quit doing chins for several weeks because of tendonitis in my forearms. I did seated cable rows exclusively during that time. My lat spread whithered away during that time, despite my progressing steadily on rows. I just started doing wide grip pullups again last week and I can already see a noticeable improvement in lat appearance in that short time.

    Your mileage may vary.

  14. #64
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Geeze......a lot of times, chins make up the majority if not the totality of my back workout.

    Anybody saying they don't work the lats is either not doing them right or not using enough weight. Probably both.
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  15. #65
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Anybody saying they [chins] don't work the lats is either not doing them right or not using enough weight. Probably both.
    :withstupi
    Last edited by WillKuenzel; 11-13-2002 at 08:51 PM.
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  16. #66
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Realistically, I don't see myself ever doing another chin.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  17. #67
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    From an appearance standpoint, my lats suck. From a functional strength standpoint, my lats are quite alright.

  18. #68
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    In terms of bodybuilding I feel that chins are definitely necessary. In terms of a powerlifting standpoint they maybe a bit less important though. Because us bodybuilders want wide, flaring lats. Powerlifters seem to use lats as a support muscle group in a sense. Not in the way that bodybuilders need them.

    Chins seem to aid in the lat spread and squeezing your lats a bit differently. More similar to DB pullovers. Rows to me seem to hit your mid-lats more. I know that you cannot isolate parts of your back I am just speaking of where I feel the movements the most. I dont feel bentover rows in my lats right under my armpits like I do BTN chins. Just an observation.

    I cannot imagine a back routine without chins. Seems like a chest routine without presses or something.

  19. #69
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Anybody saying they don't work the lats is either not doing them right or not using enough weight. Probably both.
    Agreed.

  20. #70
    Self Satisfaction bigkevin20's Avatar
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    BENT OVER BARBELL ROW
    AND WIDE GRIP PULL DOWNS
    AND BEADLIFTS THAT'S IT!
    Age 23 Height 5'10 weight 210 2 years complete of serious lifting.
    At 5'10" last Jan/02 I was 280 Lbs with a 44 waist.
    Now as of Dec/02 I am 210 with a 34-36 waist. A year complete 70 pounds lost now lets get big .
    Goal Deadlift 500 by summer now..
    02/10/03 405X3 425X1
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    03/10/03 455X3 "rack pull" 500X1 "rack pull MISS"
    03/17/03 405X6, "Rack Pulls 505X3, 525X1.... 555X1 Miss"
    04/14/03 465X1 verry difficult
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    05/19/03 435X5
    06/16/03 Rack pulls 555X2, 600Xmiss
    07/14/03 500X1 GOAL ACHIEVED!!!!
    10/06/03 500X4 555X1 Miss
    10/13/03 535X1
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    GOAL for 2004 get back to a low fat% and keep it 8 -10% would be great.
    06/29 rack pull 700X3
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  21. #71
    Gymaholic Workhorse's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigkevin20
    ...AND BEADLIFTS THAT'S IT!
    What are beadlifts??

    Workhorse
    Check out my Training Journal HERE

    105kg Open IPF Classic Provincial record holder in the squat, bench, deadlift, and total.

  22. #72
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    Originally posted by Workhorse
    What are beadlifts??
    Anal beads perhaps?tuttut

    I'd go with deadlifts instead.

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