The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Help with my powerlifting routine.

    Hi everyone. I've been doing a 3 day push, pull, legs routine for about 10 weeks. I'm taking this week off to recover and to try to put together a new powerlifting routine. I'm hoping to go to a meet soon and want a routine that will get my 3 lifts up. I was doing my push, pull, legs routine with low reps to emphasize strength.

    What types of powerlifting routines are out there? Can you guys give me some ideas? The only one I've heard of is Westside, and the WBB article kinda got my interested in that. Is Westside the only specific powerlifting routine? Or are there more?Can you guys give me some examples of different powerlifting routines. I'll probably have some more questions later, but thanks for responding.

    I'm gonna max out this week sometime when I get time. After I max out I'll post my lifts on this thread.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

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  3. #2
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Westside is an excellent program and it will spark your interest big time as far as what's involved with lifting and your body and your nervous system and various other things you probably never thought of before. Check out www.elitefts.com and the articles over there for some good documentation on Westside. And good luck.

  4. #3
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
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    Yes there are other methods out there, most of which fall into the progressive overload/western periodization method of training.

    On those programs, and this is a bit oversimplified here, you basically do 10 weeks for example on each of the powerlifts doing 10 reps with 50 percent of your max for a few sets, then the next week, 8 reps with 55 percent, for 4 sets, then 6 reps with 60 percent, and so forth and so on, till right before the meet you are doing doubles with 95-100 percent of your previous max.

    The early stages of this program are designed to pack on muscle, while the end stages are designed to increase maximal strength.

    I would not recommend this type of program, tho many use it. It is much simpler and easier to set up than a westside program, but for me, and those lifters I train with, it is not nearly as effective as westside training.

    Western periodization does not address, what is, IMO, one of the most important aspects of pushing/pulling more weight, and that is bar speed. No speed work in western periodization, and also, IMO, not enough work on accessory movements. I.E. to get a bigger bench, you are going to have to somehow get stronger in the triceps. I, personally cannot do that effectively by merely benching, and nothing else. I do a ton of direct tricep work, and a whole bunch of upper back work, and have become a pretty good bencher in the process (500 @220, last meet).

    I have tried everything out there to get stronger and bigger, and for me, nothing has worked nearly so effectively as the Westside method, properly known as the Conjugate Method of training.

    B.

  5. #4
    Think Tank TMan's Avatar
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    What about adding speed and more accessory work to a Western periodization routine? For example, pick a Coan type progression then simply add speed and accessory work to it. Sort of a hybrid routine between periodization and Westside.
    "Load the bar, do the set, forget about it until the next workout. It's not rocket surgery."
    - Dan Martin

    "Pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."
    - Henry Rollins

  6. #5
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    That might work for you.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  7. #6
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    I think I've made up my mind and will be using westside.
    What do you guys think about this routine? Is this a good routine for a begginer to Westside.
    Elite Routine
    I don't have any bands or chains, so I want something simpler.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  8. #7
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Perfect. It's fun.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  9. #8
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    ?'s

    Alright, here come my questions.

    How much do you raise the weight from week to week on the Me day and the speed day?

    How often do you switch exercises on ME day and on speed day?

    How often do you max out?

    When they say allmost all of your ME Bench exercises are done with a close grip, how close do they mean? Like close grip bench pressing or further apart?

    What do they mean by `use three different grips on bench press`?

    Can I replace replace Good Morning's with SLDL and Squats with barbell hack squats?

    I think that will do it for now.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  10. #9
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    Also, there are a bunch of exerices I've never seen done, and they aren't on the extx website everyone uses. Is there a site where I could find explanations on how to do these lifts?:
    Reverse Hypers, One Leg Squats, One arm Press, JM Press, Glute
    Ham Raise, face pulls, Ball Press, Pin Press and Carpet Press.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  11. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Alright, here come my questions.

    ** I'm ready!

    How much do you raise the weight from week to week on the Me day and the speed day?

    ** ME - you increase it. Shoot for a new PR. There isn't a set rule... just do what you can. some days you might not be able to break a PR, but the point is to put out a max effort.

    DE - For squats, use a wave (as described on the site), for bench they suggfest sticking with the same % of max over 4 weeks.

    How often do you switch exercises on ME day and on speed day?

    ** Depends. If you are fairly new to lifting, every 3 weeks. As you gain experience, you'll have to switch more often.

    How often do you max out?

    ** Every ME day. If you mean test your Squat/bench/dead maxes - I would do it every 8-10 weeks or so. The 9 week program has you test them in week 9, as I recall

    When they say allmost all of your ME Bench exercises are done with a close grip, how close do they mean? Like close grip bench pressing or further apart?

    ** Closer than your competition - usually hands inside the rings. You can vary it as you like.

    What do they mean by `use three different grips on bench press`?

    ** close grip (index on smooth) med grip (inbetween the rings) and wide grip (either your competition grip, or a little narrower)

    Can I replace replace Good Morning's with SLDL and Squats with barbell hack squats?

    ** where? ME lifts? I guess, although if you are doing the 9 week program, I'd stick with the listed lifts. For your assistance work - do stuff you aren't good at.

    Also, there are a bunch of exerices I've never seen done, and they aren't on the extx website everyone uses. Is there a site where I could find explanations on how to do these lifts?:
    Reverse Hypers, One Leg Squats, One arm Press, JM Press, Glute
    Ham Raise, face pulls, Ball Press, Pin Press and Carpet Press.

    ** Many of them are shown on the elite site (in ask dave under excercise descriptions).
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  12. #11
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    Thanks Paul.

    I'm starting to comprehend this a little better. Soon I will have my westside routine!
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  13. #12
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
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    dkliewer,

    I would also not recommend mixing periodization with westside. Don't raise the weights by a certain percentage every week thinking that will work. That is exactly what western periodization is.

    Stick with the 9 week basic training program. Keep bench percentage the same every week on speed day, and on M.e. day change exercises often and always try to break a PR. On speed squats, use the pendulum wave.

    B.

  14. #13
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    If you are sticking with the same weight every week on DE day; how will this help? Do you just shoot for more reps each week? I just don't see the point. You're hopfully going to be getting stronger.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  15. #14
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    You are increasing your speed. You adjust the weight on DE day when your max goes up. If the weight you are using on DE day is really too light you can adjust it up. Faster is better. Check your ego at the door on DE day. Save it for ME day.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  16. #15
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    Yeah I get it. I guess I'll set my % at 60% and see if that works. If it is to light I'll raise it. That is like 75lbs for me, does that sound about right?

    I was thinking that I really want to do more deadlifts than what that routine shows. Is there a way I could incorporate more deadlift work into my routine, since it is my favorite lift. I think this is kinda like what Latman does.
    Last edited by DK; 11-13-2002 at 08:10 PM.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  17. #16
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    In my limted WSB experience, you tend to be better off doing more stuff you don't like and are not good at.

    But, tailor it to your needs. If you wanna pull more, pull more.

    WSB/Dave Tate change what they suggest a lot... they used to suggest something like 70% GM's, 20% squat, 10% pulls... now they seem to suggest a more even distribution.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  18. #17
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    If you really want the feel of a heavier weight on DE day (I know I do), add in a few singles after the speed work in the 80-90% range. You can do that w/o comprimising recovery.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  19. #18
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Good point - I do that as well - every other week after DE work I do 2 or three singles at a weight I won't miss, just to check how my speed is with a heavy weight.

    For example, my bench is 290. After DE work this week (8x3 @ 175), I'll do a single at 245, then 265, depending on how I feel.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  20. #19
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Yah-- it adds a degree of specificity to it as well-- I'm almost convinced it should be a mandatory part of the dynamic-effort work.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  21. #20
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Tate suggests that 10% of your DE lifts shoudl be 80-90%
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  22. #21
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  23. #22
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    Thats a good Idea Powerman. I'll raise my DE Work to maybe 100 lbs to start with and then do some singles in the 185-190 range.

    What is your opinion on GPP? Do you guys do it?

    Also, I am almost sure I won't be able to do some of the exercises that Dave Tate list, Mainly because my gym doesn't have the equipment. I don't have access to a reverse hyper machine. Good Morings will also be hard since I don't have a squat/power rack. I'll probably do freeweight hack squats and I'll try good mornings without a rack.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  24. #23
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    No power rack? that will present some safety issues.

    I don't have access to a GHR or reverse hyper, either. SLDL, hypers, pullthrus, Dimel deads, partial deads, good mornings all substitute quite nicely.

    I don't do much GPP, although I do try to get some cardio in.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  25. #24
    Think Tank TMan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    No power rack? that will present some safety issues.

    I don't have access to a GHR or reverse hyper, either. SLDL, hypers, pullthrus, Dimel deads, partial deads, good mornings all substitute quite nicely.

    I don't do much GPP, although I do try to get some cardio in.
    I work at home but I can still do GHR and reverse hypers. You can do GHRs with a stability ball and a non-smooth wall. You can also do hamstring curls with a power rack and bench using the safety pins to hold down your ankles.

    Put a board across the safety pins of a power rack lay on the board with legs hanging off and you can do reverse hypers. You can also use a dip belt or rope to attach weight to your feet. Of course, you don't have a power rack but maybe you can find something to substitute.
    "Load the bar, do the set, forget about it until the next workout. It's not rocket surgery."
    - Dan Martin

    "Pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."
    - Henry Rollins

  26. #25
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    So on my ME day, could I do deadlifts 3x5 or something like that?
    Actually I do think my gym has a GHR bench, but it is upstairs and their are no barbells allowed up their. There are some plates so I'll probably just put a plate on the back of my shoulders.

    Is it a problem to perform good mornings without a power rack?

    How do you do Dimel Deads? I can't find an explanation anywhere

    Should I do calf work. If so, where would you put it in?
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

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