The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Bench Press Strength

    Ok,

    I know you heard it before, but I'm trying to increase my Bench Press. I've been training for nearly 2 years now and have just got access to the internet and descovered these great forums so any help you guys could give would be great!


    For the past 3 month, yes three month, I have been stuck at benching at max of 127kg * 3 reps, I have tried resting, changing my routine/workouts and creatine all to no avail. I have never used drugs or intend too.

    I train 3 times a week on all major body groups with increased poundage on a regular basis - apart from the bench press.

    General Chest routine is:

    Bench Press 4 sets - 117 kg x 7
    119 kg x 6
    119 kg x 6
    119 kg x 5
    + 3 of max rep

    Incline Press - 99kg x 6
    101kg x 5
    101kg x 5


    Dumbell Press - 44kg x 10 flat bench
    44kg x 8 inclined bench

    Dumbell flyes - 42kg x 11 flat bench
    42kg x 9 raised bench

    Kg's on bench press and inclined do not include bar. I am 5'10, and wiegh in at 210lb

    Thanks


    Grenfell :confused: :help: :help:
    Train Hard & Grow Strong

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  3. #2
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    If I'm reading this correctly, you are doing 4 sets before maxing at 127k?? am I correct? If that is the case, stop doing so much in the beginning and try concentraing on your bi lifts first and see what happens then. I do empty bar for warm up, 135lbs for 10, 185 for 6, 225 x 1, 265 x 1 and then 285. Last night I got 285x4. then I pyramind down, 265 to failure, 245 to failure and 205 x 10. I have been progressing slowing but surely.
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  4. #3
    shot a man in reno Mik's Avatar
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    I agree with Joey. You're probably getting too tired before the heavy sets. You may want to try cutting down the total number of sets you do as well. It appears you do 11 sets for chest. i would stick to around 7-9 sets total.

  5. #4
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    You are doing way too much chest work. If you want your bench press to increase, you must specifically train that exercise. Drop the flyes, dumbell press and incline press. Concentrate on just the bench press. Find your 12 rep max. Then do 5-6 sets of 5-6 reps for about two months. That is all you should do for chest . So a 5 by 5 or a six by six routine. I personally used a six by six routine and that helped me gain 30 kgs on the bench press.

  6. #5
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    Thanks guys for the advice. I will concentrate on the Bench Press & pryamid down from the heavier sets.

    If I dropped the flyes, incline & dumbell Presses would this not adversley effect my overall press strength though?
    Train Hard & Grow Strong

  7. #6
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    I don't believe so. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but flyes help to give you chest width and the incline involve the shoulders more so your not working your pecs as much as when you do flat bench. IMO
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  8. #7
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Flyes do NOT widen your chest. Read Hulk's sig. Please!

  9. #8
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Originally posted by Grenfell
    Thanks guys for the advice. I will concentrate on the Bench Press & pryamid down from the heavier sets.

    If I dropped the flyes, incline & dumbell Presses would this not adversley effect my overall press strength though?
    No, the flyes, incline and dumbell presses ARE adversely affecting your strength. Which takes more out of you, one exercise or four? Does it not make sense then, (assuming that you want to improve in that one exercise) to conserve as much energy as possible to focus on that one exercise. If you want to get better at basketball, don't play soccer. If you want to get better at the flat bench, don't practise flyes. If I were you I would use the same weight for five or six sets of five or six reps. This weight should be about a 12 rep max. Also only take one minute rest in between sets. If that doesn't improve your bench strength I don't know what will.

  10. #9
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic


    No, the flyes, incline and dumbell presses ARE adversely affecting your strength. Which takes more out of you, one exercise or four? Does it not make sense then, (assuming that you want to improve in that one exercise) to conserve as much energy as possible to focus on that one exercise. If you want to get better at basketball, don't play soccer. If you want to get better at the flat bench, don't practise flyes. If I were you I would use the same weight for five or six sets of five or six reps. This weight should be about a 12 rep max. Also only take one minute rest in between sets. If that doesn't improve your bench strength I don't know what will.
    I would think that this is bad advice. This is not Basketball and soccer, this is bench, which the primary mover is the pecs. If you want a big bench, you need big pecs. How on earth do other pec exercises adversely affect strength? He is doing those exercises AFTER he does bench, so they have no impact whatsoever on those lifts. He will be recovered before his next workout, so those lifts will have contributed to him having a stronger chest, which will help him with the bench, not hurt him, as you say. He could do more volume on bench, since that seems to be what you are saying, but saying other lifts are bad I think is horrible advice.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

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  11. #10
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    I read that shoulders also play a major apart in the bench press - is this true?

    Eat and grow strong!
    Train Hard & Grow Strong

  12. #11
    Banned Berserker's Avatar
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    What about triceps? If you want to bench more bigger triceps help? Delts too. What are you doing for them?
    I agree I would try cutting back on sets/reps before doing your max.
    In the past to move up in weight I'll do low reps with the next weight I want to do for a set. If your goal is 127kg + 3 for 10 reps load 130 kg do as many reps as you can. Then do a total of 10. I have usually done this until 20 total reps. I have had problems with this though, the new weight can be alot of stress on my shoulder. I have also done sets up 5rs stripping 10lbs.
    each set.
    Just some ideas, I am in no way qualified to give advice.
    Berserker

  13. #12
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    I would think that this is bad advice. This is not Basketball and soccer, this is bench, which the primary mover is the pecs. If you want a big bench, you need big pecs. How on earth do other pec exercises adversely affect strength? He is doing those exercises AFTER he does bench, so they have no impact whatsoever on those lifts. He will be recovered before his next workout, so those lifts will have contributed to him having a stronger chest, which will help him with the bench, not hurt him, as you say. He could do more volume on bench, since that seems to be what you are saying, but saying other lifts are bad I think is horrible advice.
    so all he should do is just bench press, nothing else? in crease his volume a little and that will help?...interesting.
    Age 39, wt 255, ht 5'7''. 23 yrs lifting and supps.

  14. #13
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  15. #14
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    Berserker,

    In responce to your question on triceps, its very rare that I specifically target this muscle group. I was led to understand that a lot of excercises for the chest, i.e. dumbell presses would include this muscle group anyway....
    Train Hard & Grow Strong

  16. #15
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    Yes beches include the tris. Thats why you should train them direcrtly, if you want a bigger bench. If you are training at this time with bench press as your goal, I would improve every muscle used in the lift. Especially if I was stuck at a certain weight. What about front delts? Just my thoughts. Take what you want from 'em.
    Berserker

  17. #16
    grow.....Grow....GROW.....
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    Any kind of press will involve the tri's. I would do some tri exercies to increase your tri strength and this will also help to get you bench bigger.
    If at first you don't succeed, take 5 lbs. off and try again.

  18. #17
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
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    Fellas,

    Big pecs are not what makes a big bench presser. Sorry to go against the flow here, but it is true. I know guys who bench almost 500 lbs, one in particular comes to mind who has done 480 in my presence, with no pecs to speak of at all, but monster triceps.

    I have benched 500 at 220, and am personal freinds with several guys who bench over 600, and every one of us will tell you the key to a big bench press is bar speed, upper back strength/stability, and triceps triceps triceps!!!

    Pecs play a relatively minor role in a properly performed power bench. You should have your shoulders pinned together at the shoulder blades so hard and your back should be jammed into the bench so hard, that your pecs have very little ROM in the bench. If you are using pecs to bench, then you are performing a bodybuilding bench. Great for building a big chest, but lousy for building a big bench.

    If you don't believe me, then go to the "Ask Dave" section of elitefts.com and check out what Dave Tate thinks about what it takes to bench big weights.

    Dave has benched 600 before, his mentor, Louie Simmons has benched 600, at 50 years of age, and they have trained at least 3 men to bench over 700 that I can think of off the top of my head. George Halbert, 733 @215 (not a typo), Rob Fusner, 733 @ 308, and Kenny Patterson, 722 @ 275 and 22 years old!!!

    These guys know what they are doing, and they will tell you, just like me, that if you want a big bench, forget doing pec decs (worthless exercise for strength) and start hammering those triceps. JM press, 5 board press, rack lockouts, reverse grip 3 board presses, skullcrushers, Tate press, dumbell tricep extensions, these sorts of things build the kind of triceps that set state, national, and world records on the bench.

    B.

  19. #18
    Grasshoppa
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    You don't have to look like you can bench 300 in order to do it. Same goes for the other way around, just because you look like you can bench 300 doesn't mean you can.
    Shao-LiN
    "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park

  20. #19
    Starting all over again :(
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    am i the only one who does a reverse pyrimid? i go really heavy first, and hen get lighter as i go on

  21. #20
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    not to flame on anyone here or to make any enimes...but it seems that there is alot of bad info going around here.. everyone is different..there for has to train different to reach their goals

    1. start off by listening to people who have big benches more than likley the know what the are talking about.. Benchmonster would be one of those

    2.tris are very important and need to be worked. andspecifically target

    3. split up your training....my day looks like this
    monday...flat bench around 7-9 sets
    dumb bell flyes 3 sets...mostly just to help strech
    tri pressdown 4 sets and that is it
    thursday...another chest day tris first and i hit them hare with about12 total sets then 3 light sets of incline 3 light sets of decline whith this routine my bench went from 315lbs max to 490 in around a year

    4. read up....listen to your body and find what works for you that is the most important thing.....what works for me doesnt work for my friends ....so keep switching it up
    "It's the ability to concentrate and draw in powers that are all around us."
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  22. #21
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    Where's Chris when you need him...
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  23. #22
    PR blaster!
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    People are built differently. If you have shorter arms (also depends on your upper to lower arm ratio) and a thicker chest (and a short ROM), then yes, triceps are gonna take most of the load. But if you are smaller chested with long arms, the lift is gonna require a lot more chest shoulder than the former I just described. The key is to figure out where YOU are weak in the lift and focus and prioritize on that portion.

    I noticed recently that my tris have been getting significantly stronger, yet my bench hasnt moved much. Why? Because I have no trouble locking out. If I can get it half way up, the lift is over. I focus more on the bottom half of the lift.
    Last edited by sysopt; 11-12-2002 at 08:56 PM.
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  24. #23
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jilla82
    am i the only one who does a reverse pyrimid? i go really heavy first, and hen get lighter as i go on
    I started doing this recently and really like it so far.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  25. #24
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    I am the EXACT same way sysopt. Exactly. For me I have much longer arms and taking the bar from mid-point to lockout is cake. Taking it from my chest to halfway up though is friggin' hell. I mean the sh*ts f*cking impossible for me.

  26. #25
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    One point I will add...unless you are competing, what is the point of a big "power bench?" If you powerlift, you do so to compete, at which point, what you look like means absolutely nothing. But if you are trying to build your physique, benching powerlifting style is rather pointless. This is the case where a stronger guy may bench less...just that the technique he uses doesn't put him, mechanically in the best position to press. So if you talk about a big bench, define if you mean in terms of strength or power, because there is a difference. If I see someone with his back flat pushing 350, I would definitely say he is much stronger than a guy with his back arched and a shirt on pushing 450.

    If you are not competing perhaps you need to ask yourself what significance the actual poundage you bench means to you. For me, it's only for measuring progress.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

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