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Thread: POV on Gear Use and Strength

  1. #26
    Super Mastah Mod rookiebldr's Avatar
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    Talk about thread degeneration! As LP stated, this was not about for or against use. That is for another thread - several which have already been done in the past. This should be about "...everyone's point of view, on qualifying stats/lifts while on gear,..." as lp said in his first post.

    Maybe, we could bring this back on topic people.

  2. #27
    Climax of Intellect WillyTheGreat's Avatar
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    Why do people at this forum have to always talk about people getting off topic? It's the damn nature of conversation, ok? Not everyone is going to address the same points and that keeps on going and the topics get condensed....you don't need to tell everyone because no one cares.

  3. #28
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    It doesnt matter to me at all. With or without, all lifts have been earned with hours of hard work in the gym. The gear doesnt make a huge physique a hop skip, and a jump away, it just makes it attainable. Through hard work, btw.

    And I'm shocked and bemused at the numerous use of the term 'roids' in the conversation.

  4. #29
    Bmx Bandit McBain's Avatar
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    *adds one bean to the pile agreeing with budiak*
    'you cant avoid confrontation in life. it just makes things more trouble down the road. sometimes you have to look at the bull and say "f--k you bull" and grab that bull by the horns'

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  5. #30
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Your statements plus your title create no need for argument. You're ignorant and you're a prick. Rookie didn't deserve those words, he was just trying to bring us back to the topic.

    If you want to hold an intelligent conversation and if you are willing to research the topics before you dive in with your left-field comments, then by all means a lot of us will oblige. I am, however, afraid that you're not capable of that level of discourse. Especially due to your condescension and extreme bias in the situation.

    Now, if you get the moment, provide some background on why one cycle of steroids will cause an early death. Then, let me know how one cycle of steroids will "fück" up your life and body, in such a definite manner. I'm willing to listen, if you're willing to provide.

  6. #31
    Super Mastah Mod rookiebldr's Avatar
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    Originally posted by WillyTheGreat
    Why do people at this forum have to always talk about people getting off topic? It's the damn nature of conversation, ok? Not everyone is going to address the same points and that keeps on going and the topics get condensed....you don't need to tell everyone because no one cares.
    Before you get the wrong idea, I am all for thread degeneration. However, I felt that lp specifically requested that he wasn't "...starting this thread so people can start a little flame war on users vs non-users. I am just wondering what perspective people have on the achievements people attain, while on gear vs never on gear vs on gear in the past."

    IMO, this was moving into that direction, which will cause this discussion to be closed if we start flaming each other and not benefit anyone.

  7. #32
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Just respond to the f*cking question asked. I don't need two-bit peanut-gallery responses from someone who knows sh!t about what they are talking about. If you had even a shadow of a brain you'd realize this is a touchy subject and either think before you post, or maybe just stfu. So please choose between those two options. Thanks.

    Hopefully others will not be discouraged from voicing their opinions because of one person's stupidity.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 11-14-2002 at 07:45 AM.
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  8. #33
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Another point I wanted to add...is the emergence of "supplements" that have been recently approved in the US that may just be similar to if not the same as anabolics. I am referring to 1-test, or I think that's what it is...haven't done too much reading on it, but from what I've heard, it is basically the same thing, only the transport system is different.

    I would wager that if we had to use hypos to inject our protein powder, it would be called a "steroid" and banned, simply because of the stigma of needles and bodybuilding. Yet now, we potentially have versions of currently illegal anabolics being produced, but because the transport system is something other than injection, it is becoming more widely accepted.

    I could be wrong on the breakdown of 1-test or whatever other products are being produced now, if so, please correct me, but if I what I understand is true, this will open up a whole new door on gear use as well, as I think it will be much more widely used, as many feel it is dangerous, but now if governments will allow it to be on a shelf, for whatever the cost, people will start to buy it that normally wouldn't for the fear of long term affects, or having to inject regularly.

    Just thought I'd add that little bit as well.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  9. #34
    Gymaholic Workhorse's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say this one thing... no matter what you do and use, whether you're on gear or not, you still need to go to the gym like everyone else, wotkout, eat right and get good rest in order to grow. AAS simply allows this to happen faster.

    And Chase, you're right, people seem to get all bent out of shape as soon as they hear someone is on gear, and I think its because it is seen as "the easy way out". It allows your body to grow faster than normal, and I think people perceptions of that are bad because you still have to do the work to see the gains!

    I stand by my first post in what I believe and what my point of view is.

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  10. #35
    Soca King
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    Originally posted by Workhorse
    And Chase, you're right, people seem to get all bent out of shape as soon as they hear someone is on gear, and I think its because it is seen as "the easy way out". It allows your body to grow faster than normal, and I think people perceptions of that are bad because you still have to do the work to see the gains!
    People get bent out of shape because AAS is a drug,and it's a drug that makes changes to your body chemestry.And maybe the issue of the side effects is iffy but,do you honestly think that it's 100% healthy to put that stuff in your body?Creatine is 100% natural and even that is somewhat bad for the body(when used in extreme amounts).

    And in terms of being the easy way out in some ways it is.Look at WWE wrestler Triple H,he was out for 6-8 months from a quad tear,he then comes back bigger then ever.Only AAS could've been responsible for such a quick recovery & his gains in size.And do you honestly think that WWE wrestlers have a lot of time to devote to eating, training & sleeping right?They don't but the AAS they use helps them keep all that muscle.

  11. #36
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    BCC: i think another reason why peops discredit u for using gear is the idea that it gives u an advantage over normal (peops working out without the use of steroids) people. And this makes them feel like u "cheated" although it still takes hard work.

    btw why does no one like the term "roids" to me it just seems like an abreviation like how u say peops instead of people.

    to ans the question, i dont use but im tempted a lot of times to speed up my progress.
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

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  12. #37
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    *sigh* Is english so terribly difficult to understand? Practically everything is bad for the body in extreme amounts, so unless you are trying to point out the obvious, I don't see a purpose to your post. Use of anabolics is a personal choice, I didn't ask for us to debate people's choices. Read the first post again.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  13. #38
    Gymaholic Workhorse's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Big Show
    People get bent out of shape because AAS is a drug,and it's a drug that makes changes to your body chemestry.And maybe the issue of the side effects is iffy but,do you honestly think that it's 100% healthy to put that stuff in your body?Creatine is 100% natural and even that is somewhat bad for the body(when used in extreme amounts).
    Did I talk about health risks? NO. Are there side effects? YES. 99% of the people out there don't know what the side effects of AAS are, the major thing they think is that your wang shrinks. And you can't compare AAS to creatine, give me a break! Can you say apples and oranges?
    Originally posted by Big Show
    And in terms of being the easy way out in some ways it is.Look at WWE wrestler Triple H,he was out for 6-8 months from a quad tear,he then comes back bigger then ever.Only AAS could've been responsible for such a quick recovery & his gains in size.And do you honestly think that WWE wrestlers have a lot of time to devote to eating, training & sleeping right?They don't but the AAS they use helps them keep all that muscle.
    What the hell does HHH's recovery have to do with your PERSONAL opinon on AAS?? You still have to work hard to gain good LBM on gear. You can't take it and then go sit on the couch and expect to gain 20 pounds of muscle!!

    I'm not going to degenerate LP's thread anymore, hopefully more people will express their UNBIASED opinions and thoughts on the thread topic.

    Workhorse
    Last edited by Workhorse; 11-14-2002 at 08:59 AM.
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  14. #39
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Ok, you're right, every one that's touched gear is going to die an early death, sorry I tried. I'm totally wrong. I'll see you on the other side.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


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  15. #40
    Soca King
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    Originally posted by Workhorse

    I'm not going to degenerate LP's thread anymore, hopefully more people will express their UNBIASED opinions and thoughts on the thread topic.

    Workhorse
    That was an unbiased opinion actually

    And more to the point of ElPietro's original post,yes it does make a difference if someone is talking about about their lifts or gains. They should say whether or not they use AAS.To do otherwise would be deceitful.

    Originally posted by BigChaseyChase
    Ok, you're right, every one that's touched gear is going to die an early death, sorry I tried. I'm totally wrong. I'll see you on the other side.
    You don't need to be like that BCC,no one actually said anything about an early death.Everyone is simply voicing opinions on the issue.
    Last edited by Big Show; 11-14-2002 at 09:20 AM.

  16. #41
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    steroids are like your sex life, imo...nobody's business but your own.

    if i were to go over to the darkside, i certainly wouldn't need to justify what i do to anyone else, or proclaim it. nor would i feel the need to qualify any of my acheivements by statign that i use.

    granted as open as i am, i prolly would just tell ya if you asked.

    what you choose to do is your business. granted using can be a slippery slope but still it hink when people are in too deep, they tend to cry for help anyways.
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  17. #42
    Soca King
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    Originally posted by Tryska
    what you choose to do is your business. granted using can be a slippery slope but still it hink when people are in too deep, they tend to cry for help anyways.
    :withstupi

  18. #43
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    The thing is, BCC was big and accomplished way before taking friggen 15mg of dbol a day. Now, he's going to get hell for it? At least he was open enough to tell people that he started doing it. I'll support your decisions chase. Let all the haters support yer jock.

  19. #44
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Steroids have been a touchy issue with me, as some of the older members here know.

    When I first started lifting, I was adamantly against their useage in *any* case. However, I was also ignorant of them to a large degree.

    WBB's somewhat changed my stance on the issue, I'll most certainly admit-- while it hasn't become an obsession, I've certainly learned a lot about the drugs from ST, Tadger, and Belial (whether they knew it or not ), and I have to say I'm really in the middle on the issue right now.

    Concerning whether someone wants to do them: Hey, that's like drinking, smoking weed, etc. Whatever works for you. My main beef would really be someone A) doing a cycle, getting wonderful gains and B) using those gains as justification for some other aspect of his/her training lifestyle. Much as LP said.

    If you want to use, and are freely admitting it, and are not trying to use any gains you make for some other purpose, then I have no problem with it.

    As for myself-- I haven't crossed the line yet. I won't lie and say I haven't been thinking more and more seriously about it, though. Its more a matter of a personal debate with myself; if I stay natty, in my mind that makes any gains I do make that much more impressive. On the other hand, if I decide to dabble, and take the time and effort to do it right, I could most certainly see some very phenomenal numbers come out of it.

    To me, as a lifter, that is temptation of the highest order. I'm fully aware that the drugs alone aren't magic. However, with my current level of strength, and motivation in the gym, as well as knowledge of training and diet, I'm fully confident that I could make some astounding gains on an 8-week cycle. I know this, and its a constant whisper in my ear.

    For the moment, I'm rationalizing it with the "stay natty" and "don't have the money" arguments.
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  20. #45
    Senior Member Savannah's Avatar
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    I certainly don't have a problem with the usage of AAS. Infact I rather respect people who use them properly and are able to know when is enough.
    I'd rather see someone turn to a bit of chemical aid and do it properly to get the results as apposed to some moron spending boat loads of cash on supplements that aren't going to do anything other than burn a hole in their wallet and leave them basicaly in the same shape as when they started.

    Just my $0.02

    In the past I've gotten some pm's from people asking me if I used anything etc and obviously people are going to make their own conclusions. I figure that whenever the time comes , if I need to add something into my supplementation program in order to stay competitive, then I know I will.

    There's been times in the past where I've been a bit wishful that I were guy because then I wouldn't have the same concerns with taking anything. I would never take anything to lose one bit of my feminity.

  21. #46
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    with regard to the original topic, i certainly believe that one should mention that they have used AAS when mentioning their lifts or posting pics. Say two people can both bench 500 lbs. One has used hormones and the other has not. Certainly if i am a drugfree trainee i would be both more impressed and more interested in the route the hormone free athlete has used to achieve his goals.
    THis is not to take anything away from the AAS user's success.
    As chris has mentioned several times, AAS create a superhuman state for a limited time and totally changes the equation in terms of recovery time and volume capacity. Thus, methods used by the AAS user to achieve his 500 lb bench aren't necessarily applicable to those who train hormone free.

    I think it is important to recognize this fact when this board has a mixed crowd of AAS users and those who do not. When someone trains very hard hormone free, and another trainee trains just as hard (whilst also taking AAS) and makes significantly greater progress that the hormone free trainee then THis should be mentioned in order to put everything in perspective
    Last edited by the doc; 11-14-2002 at 12:46 PM.

  22. #47
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Ah, very well worded Doc, this is precisely what I was trying to get at with my own thoughts on this matter.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  23. #48
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    I think that the topic divides into subjective/objective components. A lot of people have different opinions and subjective views regarding the use of steroids...some feel that it is illegal and morally wrong, others feel that it is another training aid when used correctly and intelligently, others feel that it is unhealthful and dangerous. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    As far the objective part goes, focusing only on performance and cutting out the emotional/subjective issues, performance by users and non-users IS a separable issue. That is why the Olympic games, some pro sports, and some competitions/shows do drug testing. It IS a fact that steroids and other performance enhancers do give an edge. So yes, I do believe that there is a difference between the lifts of users and non-users.

    Whether or not someone decides to use or not is a personal decision and that's their business, IMO. Some who do will be open about it, some won't...so really how are you going to know if someone claiming certain lifts is not natural? Some will admit it, some won't...so we're back to square one as far as questioning how to take someone's claims.

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  24. #49
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I just read the rest of this thread, and I have a question:

    Does Willy ever actually know what he's talking about, or does he just take some of the same crap Rock's on and react badly to it?
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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    galileo: hate

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  25. #50
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
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    Powerman, Do I react good on it ? hehe

    I think it kind a depends what enviroment you are in, if your teacher ask you about your lifts, or your parents, if I was user and in a situation like that, I would pretty much shut up about the topic, but in a bodybuilding enviroment, I wish people could tell the truth, because bodybuilders, natty or not, arent that judging.
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