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Thread: POV on Gear Use and Strength

  1. #1
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    POV on Gear Use and Strength

    I was just thinking about the mix of people on the site, some who use gear, those that have used gear, those that are thinking about using gear, and those that will never use gear. I was curious as to everyone's point of view, on qualifying stats/lifts while on gear, etc. This is more of a trivial discussion as I was simply curious on how others view this. For example, when some use gear if they are using their lifts to backup arguments, which seems to be the case for a lot of individuals, should they be qualifying their statements with an "I'm on gear" statement? Also, how long after would you think that you should qualify things with regards to gear? I'll take Chris Mason for an example, only because I don't think he'd mind being singled out and has spoken of the small cycle he has done. What if Chris had done some bigger cycles in the past. Would he then say maybe a year after the cycle that he was at the level he was because of gear? Or is there some point in time you would think it doesn't matter anymore?

    I am not starting this thread so people can start a little flame war on users vs non-users. I am just wondering what perspective people have on the achievements people attain, while on gear vs never on gear vs on gear in the past.

    I personally think, that if I was ever to do a cycle, I would always mention this fact, if I was actually talking about poundages, or showing my physique. I say this because if I were on gear, I wouldn't be at the level I would be, if I weren't, so some progress must be attributed to gear use. Also, a cycle, I would probably continue to mention it for a while. I know some wouldn't, and I'm just wondering what others think about this subject.

    I think, nothing bothers me more, than people who try to back up their arguments with their lifts, I think it has no meaning whatsoever in a debate, but I think what would truly piss me off, would be someone who does this, and is also on gear, speaking to someone who is not on gear, and using their lifts as backup.

    Hmmm...maybe I just felt the need to make a thread for no apparent reason. But I'm curious what some of the more experienced guys here think.

    Oh, and this isn't a loaded debate/question or whatever, I am simply curious, and wouldn't mind a friendly discussion of the matter. I don't think this should be in the anabolic forum as it pertains to all lifters.
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  2. #2
    Banned David's Avatar
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    yeah I also have a question, I dont really know how to explain it so I will try my best.

    Does a person's income level have anything to do with choosing to do roids?

    for example, how many doctors, lawyers, presidents of comapnies, etc. do you know that do steroids compared to teens in high school and people with lower income jobs, like janitors, cops, firefighters, etc.

    gentlemen, I am very confident that we can discuss this topic on a serious level.

  3. #3
    Gymaholic Workhorse's Avatar
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    Personally, I would consider something like BCC is presently trying... sorry to single you out Chase. Not a full fledged cycle, but something to give a boost. I'm 23, I know puberty is done with me and maybe something small like that would be the boost I'd like to see. I don't think I'd ever do a full fledged cycle, but I may try something small to see how my body reacts to it.

    I have no problems with people who use/have used gear. And I think people who have achieved their goals naturally should be proud. You have goals, I have goals, and however we choose to meet those goals is our own decision. I don't hold anything against anyone who does or doesn't choose to use gear.

    As for mentioning it in a post or something, I would say yes if it is a siginificant gain or amount of gear, don't give people the idea of "all natural" when its not. For how long, that's questionable. I think if someone asks, you should be honest, but I wouldn't go paradeing (sp?) it around to everyone.

    Just my thoughts.

    Workhorse
    Last edited by Workhorse; 11-13-2002 at 01:37 PM.
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  4. #4
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, in case some may get the wrong impression, I do not discount peoples results if they have been on or are using gear. I know you still need to hit the iron, and eat right and do all the little things. I am not saying gear lifts the weight for you. Just wanted to make that clear as well.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  5. #5
    A. F.
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    i am considering slight use of gear after i accomplish incredible gains naturally (300-320 bench for example).. only then will I considr going on roids for little periods of time.

  6. #6
    Genetic Experiment GeneticallyGifted's Avatar
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    Elp, I have the exact same view as Workhorse. I am scared of the effects of gear but I have thought about using and still think about it now. I would start out the same with a small cycle before ever doing something heavy and see what my body reacts too. Depending on that, it would inform me on how much and what to take.

    I think that I would mention that I was on gear or that I have been at that time or if I am currently doing a cycle or just been off of one. I would do it especially when posting pics, or explaining diet and workout scemes so I wouldn't give anyone false hopes of attaining the things that I have naturally. (I hate that!!)

    I wouldn't stamp my forward roid user for the world to know but in this community I would say it when it is necessary.

    Basically 2nding Workhorse's point.

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  7. #7
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Please people, steroids can go in your whole ass, but roids go in your ass hole.

    If you decide that your goals are better achieved through the use, have at it. People feel their goals are easier met through creatine, glutamine, whey, and a variety of other supplements. The only difference is degree. As far as justifying your methods with your lifts, I don't think anyone has the right to do that. Gear or not, some people aren't mechanically built for certain tasks.
    I feel some of the people on this site who are more vocal about their lifts and philosophies are morons. Some use, some have used, some are adamant against use. Does that make a difference? I respect intelligence and intelligent conversation. Not your amazing concentration curls or squatting skills.

  8. #8
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    A conversation of the haves and the have nots. I think lifts do lend some credence to one's argument, but I also realize that someone who does not lift much could give good advice.

    I would like to make one point, 10 years off from steroid use definitely has eliminated any gains I made on them. In fact, I would say that after about 2 years (or less) I lost anything I had gained on them.

  9. #9
    Banned David's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    I would say that after about 2 years (or less) I lost anything I had gained on them.
    so what exactly was the point of taking them? and loosing all that money? did you plan on taking them later on in the future at the time?

  10. #10
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Chris:
    Did you stop training, eating maintenance or above, or slack during those two years? Muscle is muscle, and unless you are way above what your body can handle naturally, if you train properly the weight and some strength (from added muscle) should be retained.

    PPP:
    I think it'd probably be fun to try. People pay a lot more than a few hundred dollars to go skiing for a weekend...why not do something that apparently can last 2 years...

  11. #11
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    If you are near your genetic potential already, and gear allows you to surpase this limit, then I can easily understand how you may not be able to support this added muscle after the cycle is done. Sure it may take a year or two to reach previous levels, but it's understandable. Perhaps this is what Chris is referring to, in his situation. I'm sure he can explain better than I anyway.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  12. #12
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    As far as gear and lifts go. If a person is making a phenomenal pull while on gear, chances are that person is damn strong to begin with. Gear is no magical solution.

    One thing that irritates me, is that right now what I have achieved, to the general public is a great thing. But, as soon as I admit to using gear, all my hardwork is instantly discredited by the ignorant and attributed to steroid use alone.
    Last edited by BigChaseyChase; 11-13-2002 at 04:07 PM.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


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  13. #13
    P o S e R kAiXuan's Avatar
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    true chase, but i guess you should have thought about that before
    -deFenDeRs oF thE unDerRateD

    If it doesnt make dollars, then it doesnt make sense

    I never knew how skinny I was untill I started gaining a little weight

  14. #14
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Yeah, but I really don't care what people attribute my progress to. The general public will always be ignorant, uninformed, and frightened of anabolic steroids.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  15. #15
    bone crusher
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    maybe we should add this to the date registered, location, and posts info on the left hand side

    like

    gear: yes/no


  16. #16
    Soca King
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    Originally posted by BigChaseyChase
    One thing that irritates me, is that right now what I have achieved, to the general public is a great thing. But, as soon as I admit to using gear, all my hardwork is instantly discredited by the ignorant and attributed to steroid use alone.
    It's probably because you're still young,whether you'd like to admit it or not using steroids has consequences(much like sex and alcohol)and steroids are a man's game.And since you're not an adult yet there lies the problem.

    And on the subject of losing muscle gained when off a cycle, therein lies the(possible)addictiveness of using AAS

  17. #17
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by galileo
    Chris:
    Did you stop training, eating maintenance or above, or slack during those two years? Muscle is muscle, and unless you are way above what your body can handle naturally, if you train properly the weight and some strength (from added muscle) should be retained.

    PPP:
    I think it'd probably be fun to try. People pay a lot more than a few hundred dollars to go skiing for a weekend...why not do something that apparently can last 2 years...


    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Let's review a few facts:

    -Anabolic steroids work
    -Anabolic steroids taken exogenously, by definition, create a superhuman state
    -If said hormones are no longer taken in at superhuman levels, then the superhuman state of development created by them is not able to be sustained long term, by definition

    As an addendum to the above statement, if one is relatively undeveloped when one begins taking the drugs, and does not take them for a prolonged period, it is possible to maintain a fair amount of the gains.

    Growth hormone creates permanent changes in muscle. The muscle size gained while using steroids, at least the bulk of it, is not permanent. It will slowly erode (very slowly) after their cessation.

    To answer the question, no I did not slack in any way, shape, or form. When I first took them in earnest, I already weighed 220 lbs at 5'11". I was no small dude.
    Last edited by chris mason; 11-13-2002 at 06:20 PM.

  18. #18
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Where am I wrong? Or did you just quote be for effect? You were apparently above what your body could handle at the time for suspended periods of time. I will always find it hard to believe that it was gone after two years, but since you were big enough at the time, I'll say OK. My brother dabbled in college and he got very large and very strong. He hasn't lifted in years but if he gets under the bar he can still push 225 for reps at about 160. Before his college he was, let's just say, tiny.

    Different strokes, folks. Can't be 100% all the time.

  19. #19
    Climax of Intellect WillyTheGreat's Avatar
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    The only difference is degree.
    Guess you forgot about the side effects .

    Dude, **** steroids, what's the point? Ya, if you've gotten huge NOT using them, then what's the point of using them? What're you going to do with that amount of mass you gain from them? Are those competitions you MIGHT win (but probably won't) worth and early death? (because it's almost certain you're going to die before the average age of death).

  20. #20
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    ....ignorance prevails...
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  21. #21
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    I'm sure everything willy just said can totally be backed up scientifically and fits all scenarios
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


    In Memphis, it is illegal for a woman to drive by herself, unless a man is walking or running infront of the vehicle, waving a red flag in order to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists.

  22. #22
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by WillyTheGreat

    Ya, if you've gotten huge NOT using them, then what's the point of using them? What're you going to do with that amount of mass you gain from them? Are those competitions you MIGHT win (but probably won't) worth and early death? (because it's almost certain you're going to die before the average age of death).
    I dunno. Ask Ronnie Coleman.


    BTW I'm with Workhorse and GG.
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  23. #23
    Starting all over again :(
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    *finally realizes what gear is*

  24. #24
    Soca King
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    Originally posted by BigChaseyChase
    ....ignorance prevails...
    I don't think it's ignorant at all,after all everything that is put into our bodies has an effect(good and bad).And all drugs have a psychological and/or a physiological effect on the human body & too much of any drug can have a bad effect..And AAS is no exception to that rule.I think we should all remember that AAS is a drug and as such has the potential of having negative side effects just like any other drug.

  25. #25
    Climax of Intellect WillyTheGreat's Avatar
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    Dude, look at it like this. If you want to use it, then you're going to find ways to justify it and what I say won't matter so your way of justifying it is calling me ignorant...that's fine. If you can't handle the truth, then OK, but the effect of steroids on the body has been documented and it's clear that it doesn't hold any good benefits in the long run...of course, in the short run, you get big, big ****. But I'm ignorant, don't listen to me and go **** up your life and your body with that ****, it's worth it .

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