The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    Why do different exercises make different parts of the chest sore?

    I'm not trying to start another flame-war. I realize that supposedly you can't isolate different parts of the pec, or other muscles.

    My question however, is why do different exercises make different part of the pec sore? Normally I do flat and incline benching, and sometimes flyes. After these sessions, the outer and upper portions of my pec are sore, near to, but not actually at the pec-delt tie-in. On days when I do more flyes, the inner part of my pecs, near the sternum are sore. Well yesterday, I did flat, declines, and flyes, skipping inclines, and the upper portion of my pec is hardly sore. What's more, is that the lower portion of my pecs, below the nipple are sore, and they are NEVER sore after chest day. Thinking back, the only times they DO get sore is after doing declines. I'm just curious about all this, and what you guys think, and how this relates to a debate on why you can not isolate different parts of a muscle.

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  3. #2
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Holy $hit, I was thinking about exactly this subject last night...I did not come up with anything though...thanks!

    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  4. #3
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    this outta be interesting...
    *hides in bomb shelter*
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  5. #4
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    lol@ sayiajin.

    I dunno what I'm implying with this, but the question begs asking I believe.

  6. #5
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    OK, I have a theory.

    I will not explain the Sliding-Filament Theory of Muscular Contraction in detail because you can read it elsewhere. Suffice to say that when a muscle contracts, it is because actin filaments at each end of the sarcomere slide inward on myosin filaments, pulling Z-lines together and thus shortening the muscle fiber.

    So while you're not "isolating" the lower portion of your chest, isn't it possible that there is more filament sliding going on down there as opposed to the upper portion?

    Does any of that make sense, or do I have to get detailed and try to make drawings?

  7. #6
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    SF, that makes sense. *thinks*
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  8. #7
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    I've recently rethought my stance on the whole thing about working different parts of your chest and whatnot. While I still agree that isolation isn't happening, perhaps "focus" would be a better term.

  9. #8
    Self Satisfaction bigkevin20's Avatar
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    Suffice to say that when a muscle contracts, it is because actin filaments at each end of the sarcomere slide inward on myosin

    What?
    Age 23 Height 5'10 weight 210 2 years complete of serious lifting.
    At 5'10" last Jan/02 I was 280 Lbs with a 44 waist.
    Now as of Dec/02 I am 210 with a 34-36 waist. A year complete 70 pounds lost now lets get big .
    Goal Deadlift 500 by summer now..
    02/10/03 405X3 425X1
    02/17/03 435X1
    02/24/03 445X1
    03/03/03 455X1
    03/10/03 455X3 "rack pull" 500X1 "rack pull MISS"
    03/17/03 405X6, "Rack Pulls 505X3, 525X1.... 555X1 Miss"
    04/14/03 465X1 verry difficult
    05/12/03 475X1 Easy!!! 500X1 Miss"real close"
    05/19/03 435X5
    06/16/03 Rack pulls 555X2, 600Xmiss
    07/14/03 500X1 GOAL ACHIEVED!!!!
    10/06/03 500X4 555X1 Miss
    10/13/03 535X1
    11/10/03 Rack pull 500X7
    GOAL for 2004 get back to a low fat% and keep it 8 -10% would be great.
    06/29 rack pull 700X3
    07/6/04 600x1 at 216
    09/6/04 600X1 at 208 Rack pull 720X3
    NEW GOAL BENCH 400 BY FEB 2005 "not sure about this one"

  10. #9
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Physiology. I can't type it out any shorter than the text I read, and I'm not typing pages out of my books. Suffice to say that when a muscle contracts (you flex) actin slides one way and myosin slides the other. So instead of having actin and myosin running side by side in a thin straight line, you now have actin and myosin piled on each other in a big stack. (like a flexed muscle)

    That is NOT scientifically correct, but it should give you an idea what I said.

  11. #10
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    I've recently rethought my stance on the whole thing about working different parts of your chest and whatnot. While I still agree that isolation isn't happening, perhaps "focus" would be a better term.
    I'm beginning to fall to the side of the "focus" idea as well.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  12. #11
    Wannabebig Member
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    This is why even though ONE exercise will work for the entire chest, we do others at different angles.

  13. #12
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Are you the president of the Baseless Claims Club, or are you going to back that up with reasons?

  14. #13
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    A post I made 7-8 months back on this subject:
    Now normally I'd just laugh along, but despite what most scientists, etc might say, I and a great many other people have noticed anecdotally that incline benches do have an effect on upper chest development. Now, of course, a muscle is either contracted or not contracted, but due to the unique fan-shape of the pectorals, doing benches at a slight incline(30 degrees or so) stresses the costal portion of the pec to a greater degree and the sternal portion to a lesser degree than a flat bench. In my experience, and many others, these two exercises do produce different results--cosmetically speaking.
    Repost I made of some comments by Bryan Haycock addressing this:
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...est#post291855

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesnít realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  15. #14
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Some possible answers:

    Referred pain
    tendon/ligament pain

    In order to completely answer your question, we need to know what causes DOMS (we don't), and its relationship to strength and/or hypertrophy (as of now, all we know is that no relationship has been shown)
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  16. #15
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    im starting to agree a bit.
    back in the early days of my training when i did just flat dbpresses things looked fine. then i added decline presses to it and the lower portion of my pec got larger.

    (background info, even in my early yrs despite that i was niave, i was at a really low bf% {fookin shredded!} so i had an accurate observation of what was goin on)

    (back to date) also normally i do only BP and dips
    well on a replacement day (when i couldnt use the weights) i did mainly pushups (no incline or decline) i noticed that only my middle area of my pecs enlarged (it was a large middle area but i didnt notice an increase in size like i normally do on my normal bp+dip routine)
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  17. #16
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    i would hazard a guess that soreness probably has more to do with the differing amounts of stress placed on the insertion points of the pectoral muscles

    to my way of thinking, different exercises will, through the ROM and the position, place more or less stress on one or the other of the insertions. Which more or less echoes the idea posted by B&I.

  18. #17
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    In order to completely answer your question, we need to know what causes DOMS (we don't), and its relationship to strength and/or hypertrophy (as of now, all we know is that no relationship has been shown)
    There has been no relationship established between DOMS and strength or hypertrophy, but I've posted text recently regarding what causes DOMS, and for it to be felt in different places with different exercise, combined with the sliding-filament theory would indicate you can "focus" on areas, but not isolate. I will followup with my post about what causes DOMS.

  19. #18
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    "However, exercise-induced muscle damage followed by an inflammation-induced increase in fluid in the muscle probably causes the muscle discomfort, at least in part."

    and...

    "DOMS is normally associated with a reduction in muscle strength and, following long-duration aerobic running, may impair the ability of muscle to generate ATP from oxidative processes for several weeks."

    and still further...

    "As would be expected with reductions in strength and aerobic ATP-generation abnormalities, DOMS has been found to be associated with abnormalities in the sarcoplasmic reticulum, degradation of titin filaments, disruption of Z-lines, and mitochondrial swelling."

  20. #19
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    (dont flame)
    i propose that any position hits a large area of the pecs, but at certain angles it does focus certain areas.

    i also believe that high number of sets although (supposedly isolates, mind you) spread to different angles can cause overtrain, thus elimnating the "isolation idea".

    i agree: it might be focus. ill post more of my assumptions and ideas later.
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  21. #20
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Maybe you should stop dropping dumbells on youself, and then you'd just have normal DOMS like the rest of us. Or at least drop the DBs on the same part of your chest each time so you don't think you are working different parts of your chest. You didn't think your face was part of your chest when it hurt after dropping a DB on it did you?








    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

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  22. #21
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Oh that was evil. HAHA

  23. #22
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    well, that's the problem. Only the left side of my face hurts when I drop a db on that side. Now I didn't think it was possible to isolate different parts of the jaw, but apparently it is.

  24. #23
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Next time drop both for a well rounded routine.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  25. #24
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    LMAO
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  26. #25
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    "However, exercise-induced muscle damage followed by an inflammation-induced increase in fluid in the muscle probably causes the muscle discomfort, at least in part."

    and...

    "DOMS is normally associated with a reduction in muscle strength and, following long-duration aerobic running, may impair the ability of muscle to generate ATP from oxidative processes for several weeks."

    and still further...

    "As would be expected with reductions in strength and aerobic ATP-generation abnormalities, DOMS has been found to be associated with abnormalities in the sarcoplasmic reticulum, degradation of titin filaments, disruption of Z-lines, and mitochondrial swelling."
    You are confusing 'associated' with 'caused'. (Also, the first isn't really saying anything, with the 'probably' and 'in part')

    I slammed an hammer on my thumb. It is now swollen and has turned purple, and my thumbnail fell off.

    My thumbnail falling off is associated with my thumb being swollen.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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