The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: box squats

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  1. #1
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    box squats

    Some questions about box squats here. I read the article at Westside:
    http://www.westside-barbell.com/HTM/box_squatting.htm

    I'm not a powerlifter, which is the audience for the article above. Anybody here do box squats in a non-powerlifting routine?

    I've made a 14.5" squat box, which puts me a little below parallel. I've been doing a set of 12 reps, trying to go up a fast as I possibly can. This requires resting between reps once I get to about 7-8 reps. I've learned to avoid letting the momentum generated from making my knees lock out at the top.

    The Westside article talks about doing several sets of 2 reps. Being that I don't powerlift and I don't do back squats in sets of 2 reps, I don't think that is what I want to be doing.

    I did back squats today, 240 pounds for 10 reps, below parallel with my butt just touching the squat box at the bottom. I don't rest on the box or put much weight on it at all. My max working weight so far has been 260 pounds for 6 reps. I've been squatting since March, and I know this isn't much weight so far for a male weighing 220-225 pounds at 6'3". I hope to be working with 315 pounds by the end of March.

    I've done box squats so far with 145 for 12 reps. This is much lighter relative to my back squat weight than the Westside article calls for. I've used low weight because I've been trying to blast up on box squats with as much speed as possible. Should I be using more weight for them?

    My typical leg workout is this:
    back squats (1 or 2 sets)
    seated calf raises (2 sets)
    standing calf raises (2 sets)
    box squats (1 set)
    45 degree hyperextensions (1 set)
    crunches (1 or 2 sets)

    Does it work to do back squats and box squats in the same workout? I don't do any kind of conjugate periodization. I start a mesocycle with a weight for each exercise that lets me do 12-15 reps. I then add 5 or 10 pounds on each exercise every workout, which I do every third day. I do as many reps as I can do with flawless form, not to true momentary failure. I keep this mesocycle going until I'm doing 4-6 reps for each exercise, then I start over with a higher starting weight than the last cycle. It's a bastardization of HST, and it's been working very well for me for the last 2-3 months.

    Any opinions and suggestions will be appreciated.
    Last edited by Delphi; 11-20-2002 at 11:50 PM.

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  3. #2
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Box squats serve a couple of purposes. Firstly, you know when you've gone low enough, so you get a groove of no red lights in competition. Secondly, it breaks the eccentric/concentric chain and allows you to train to be explosive. Can you apply either of those ideas to bodybuilding? Well sure.

  4. #3
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    If you're not directly trying to up your max squat, you can probably not worry about the box.

    If you're worrying about mass alone (as the 10 reps lead me to believe) then you don't have to worry about legal depth, as long as its in the range........if you're not training directly for a competitive lift, keeping the competitive form won't enhance growth any and it can very well make it much more difficult to execute the movement.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  5. #4
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Oh, and just to add since I read the rest of your post:

    If you want to add in box squats after doing "regular" squats, then don't do them for reps-- do them Westside style.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  6. #5
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I agree with Powerman. If you are not using the box to break the eccentric/concentric chain, than do regular squats or paused squats. Also, do singles or doubles if using the box. It is not the easiest or safest exercise and addig reps to a set just makes it more dangerous. Also, if on the box make sure to sit back as far as possible, not down.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  7. #6
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    I hope this wasn't confusing in my first post, so let me explain something again. I'm using the box two different ways. When I do back squats, I'm barely touching the box so that I know I'm below parallel. Just to be anal. Or, just to make sure I don't end up doing partial squats when I get to heavier weights. When I do box squats, I'm actually sitting on the box and starting from there with my attempts at explosively coming out of the hole. I think y'all understood; just wanted to make sure.

    Matt, in a sense I am trying to increase my max squat. I'm just going for more reps (6 minimum), instead of an 1RM. I am more interested in hypertrophy than strength, not that I won't happily take the strength increases, too. I've read that bar speed is important when doing bench presses, and I figure the same reasoning goes for squats. That's my reasoning for doing the box squats at all.

    Will I be getting any benefit in doing back squats and box squats in the same workout, or should I be doing them during different workouts? So you feel I should be doing sets of 2 reps for box squats? Does that change if I do them the same day as back squats versus on a different day?

    Latty, can you suggest a rule of thumb for how heavy to go with box squats, given my range for box squats in the mid-200's? Like a percentage of the back squat weight?

    Thanks guys, I appreciate your thoughts.
    Last edited by Delphi; 11-20-2002 at 09:44 PM.

  8. #7
    Porn Star
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    personally i would rotate routines after a period of time and focus on one goal at a time. Do a hypertrophy orientated routine using higher rep ranges for squats to develop mass and then switch to something like westside and box squats to add strength. The 2 will complement each other then

  9. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Personally, I wouldn't go much over 70% of my 1RM for a double on the box. More than that for a single (an ME squat on a low box), but I typically don't do much ME box squatting.

    If you want to check depth, I'd rather see you squat to a bungee cord or something, instead of touching the box.

    I'd also suggest keeping the reps low.

    The point of the box is to:
    Teach proper PLing form
    Teach youto sit back - way back.
    Break the concentric eccentric chain
    Train the posterior chain over the quads.

    IMO, if your gaol is to bring up your hamstings and glutes, there are more effective ways to do it.

    IMO, for your goals, I'd use pause squats

    Do you squats for the day (say 70% of 1RM for a couple of sets of 8), then pause squats - 5 sets of 3 with minimal rest, using 70% of what you used for your squats.

    Squat to depth, pause for a 3 count, explode up.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  10. #9
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ozzymt
    personally i would rotate routines after a period of time and focus on one goal at a time. Do a hypertrophy orientated routine using higher rep ranges for squats to develop mass and then switch to something like westside and box squats to add strength. The 2 will complement each other then
    Or just do Westside, since Westside has hypertrophy work done in conjunction with strength training. A lot of folks don't realize it, but the assistance work in a Westside routine is meant to induce hypertrophy. Because quite simply, to lift big you have to be big.

  11. #10
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    good point. lol

  12. #11
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Good posts, y'all. What do y'all think about high rep squats, say 15 or 20 reps? I tried the 20 rep squat routine and couldn't keep going after about three weeks. Three times a week was too much for my recovery abilities. I ended up fearing the workouts.

    On pause squats, are these done to parallel or below? How long do you pause at the bottom?

    Good idea about the bungie cord, Paul. I've read that there's some danger in getting too low and actually ending up resting on the box while using usual back squat weights. I've caught myself going down instead of going back and down. My back let me know that was a Bad Thing pretty quickly. Now if you'll just send me a power rack, I'll supply the bungie cord to stretch across two of the uprights. I'll let you know how it works out. *LOL*

  13. #12
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Pause for anywhere from a 1 count to a 3 count. As deep as your normal squat.

    The rack is in the mail.

    As far as 20 reppers.. if you can't do them 3 times a week, just increase the number of day sof rest. Do them twice a week, or once a week.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  14. #13
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Paul Stagg

    The rack is in the mail.
    Kewl! I hope it's white so that it goes with my white tank top and lifting gloves, and my tiger print warmups.
    Last edited by Delphi; 11-21-2002 at 06:30 PM.

  15. #14
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    LMAO!!!

    Now THAT was funny.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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