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Thread: HST-Routines

  1. #1
    Super Member II zwarrior99's Avatar
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    HST-Routines

    I will be doing HST in a few weeks I will be following the routine according to the one shown on the website. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html

    Was wondering if its okay to replace the dips with another incline press? Replace the chins, with bent over rows. So the back would look like this:
    Barbell Bent Over rows 2X10
    Dumbell Rows 2X10
    And can I add one more set of squats so its 2 sets a workout?
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  2. #2
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    interesting. ive never tried this routine before..keep us posted..luck

  3. #3
    Goldyn Chyld of the East ENYCE's Avatar
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    I've been doin hst for the past month and my routine looks like this squats or Leg Press-lat raise-cable row-bench press-chins-db curl or ez bb cur-side raise-tricep pressdown-calf raises I do 1 setr for each

  4. #4
    Beware of Attack Ferrets
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    I'll be starting HST on Monday. I just dropped $500 on a home gym (pics to come soon) and I'm pretty psyched about it.

    It's close to impossible to do an HST routine at my gym, there is a literally a waiting list just to get on the squat rack and benches.

  5. #5
    Super Member II zwarrior99's Avatar
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    What are you guys doing to find your max in the lifts. Do you know of any other sites that might help me grasp more knowledge of HST.
    Cutting Cycle 02/04'

  6. #6
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    Originally posted by zwarrior99
    What are you guys doing to find your max in the lifts. Do you know of any other sites that might help me grasp more knowledge of HST.
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com

    Be sure to check out the forum.

  7. #7
    Gym ratt/Part-time pimp LAM's Avatar
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    I would stick to the pull-ups and add bent over rows. why add another incline movement ? add a flat or decline movement if anything.

    Personally I've added 2 more working sets of squats and 2 more sets of pull-ups. and I do abs and calves on Tues and Sunday...

  8. #8
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    You're doing 9 sets a week for shoulders. That seems inherently wrong to me, as a well rounded routine should not include direct shoulder work, or at most should not account for more than 2-3 sets TOTAL of direct shoulder work. Of course, we are all unique snowflakes so perhaps it will work for you.

  9. #9
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by zwarrior99
    What are you guys doing to find your max in the lifts. Do you know of any other sites that might help me grasp more knowledge of HST.
    Gee, the HST site explains things pretty thorougly IMO. The forums should have the answers to any other questions you have. Just take some time and look around.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  10. #10
    Super Member II zwarrior99's Avatar
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    Thanks guys will be starting it in 2 weeks. Taking 2 weeks off from training ahhh sweet vacation!
    Cutting Cycle 02/04'

  11. #11
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    You're doing 9 sets a week for shoulders. That seems inherently wrong to me, as a well rounded routine should not include direct shoulder work, or at most should not account for more than 2-3 sets TOTAL of direct shoulder work. Of course, we are all unique snowflakes so perhaps it will work for you.
    Actually he's doing thirty. Chest and back work indirectly hit the shoulders. I too would cut out direct shoulder work on this program. They are certainly getting enough stimulation as it is.

  12. #12
    Super Member II zwarrior99's Avatar
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    will cut back direct shoulder work to 2 sets. I can use all the shoulder help I get lol..
    Cutting Cycle 02/04'

  13. #13
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    I would be wary of incorporating the advice of people who are not thorougly familar nor practice HST, into an HST routine. That's like asking me for advice on a Westside routine.

    The image is from Haycock's article and is his sample routine. He's the guy that came up with the system for chrissakes.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  14. #14
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    Greetings, All:

    I'm starting my first HST cycle this week using the following movements. Thought this may help for comparision.

    As this method is quite new to me, although I have my doubts, I'm going to take the leap and see what transpires.

    I'll complete a single set on all movements with the exception of Squats. Rest between sets will be minimal (whatever it takes to move from movement to movement, change weight, etc.) to sustain the intensity.

    I'll follow strict form, specifically at the beginning of each cycle where the weight will most likely seem to light.

    All max. were established to failure or 1 rep. shy for the final workout.

    Comments & thoughts are welcomed.

    Squat (to floor)
    Straight Calf Raise
    SLDL
    Leg Curl
    Incline Bench (w/barbell)
    Dips
    Pull Down (to front)
    Seated Rows (w/cable)
    Shoulder Press (w/barbell)
    Lateral Raise (w/dumbell)
    Bi Curl (w/dumbell)
    Shrug (w/barbell)
    Tri Push-Down
    Weighted Crunch
    Best Regards,

  15. #15
    Gym ratt/Part-time pimp LAM's Avatar
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    I would do pull-ups or rows before lat pull-downs. the anterior deltoid is getting hit from incline bench and dips so the shoulder press is not needed.

  16. #16
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    I was simply advising him to avoid overtraining the shoulders. That is excellent advice for anyone following any training program, regardless of who came up with it. Doing 30 sets a week for shoulders (whether directly or indirectly) is foolish and over time will lead to injury. The only questions are when, and how severe. Some people possess great endurance and can tolerate this training for quite a long time. Eventually however, it will catch up with them. I wonder if the people who espouse BTP's (for example) will still be able to do them, when they hit their forties?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-13-2002 at 09:48 PM.

  17. #17
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    I was simply advising him to avoid overtraining the shoulders. That is excellent advice for anyone following any training program, regardless of who came up with it.
    You're regurgitating McRobert(who is great, but simply because he wrote it does not make it fact.) This means you're coming from a HIT/hardgainer mentality which, while in some regards agrees completely with HST is, in other ways, a diametrically opposed school of lifting. Unless zwarrior99 has the genetics of Woody Allen, he'd have absolutely no problem doing the listed routine. I recently was working my arms and shoulders six times a week(three days directly, and indirectly on the alternating ones) and with a greater much greater volume without any symptoms of overtraining, and I am hardly an example of stellar genetics. In fact, rather than resulting in overtraining I added about .75 inches to my arms. I bought into the McRobert's line for awhile, and for some it is great. I still wholeheartedly agree with his emphasis on perfect form, but lifting twice a week with super-abbreviated routines and ultra-high intensity did nothing for me except leave me hunched over a toilet after every workout.

    As for higher-volume approaches causing joint problems, I think any sort of lifting improperly-performed will cause problems. Yes, higher-volumes may be more likely to result in overuse injuries, but I would hardly call the listed routine high-volume.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  18. #18
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MRJ


    Comments & thoughts are welcomed.

    Squat (to floor)
    Straight Calf Raise
    SLDL
    Leg Curl
    Incline Bench (w/barbell)
    Dips
    Pull Down (to front)
    Seated Rows (w/cable)
    Shoulder Press (w/barbell)
    Lateral Raise (w/dumbell)
    Bi Curl (w/dumbell)
    Shrug (w/barbell)
    Tri Push-Down
    Weighted Crunch
    You might want to consider dropping an exercise or two. I assume when you established your maxes you did this routine in it's entirely so maybe you're able to pull it off. I used something pretty similar my first HST-cycle and had no problems, but some people just can't tolerate that work load. Also, I found squatting three times a week to simply be too much for my lower back. After the 15's I started alternating squats/SLDL and leg presses/leg curls and it alleviated the problem.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  19. #19
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    Nope, Mr. McRobert may have wrote that, but I advocate against overtraining the shoulders, based on studies which show that shoulder injuries are the number one cause of injuries among people who lift weights. It is also based on my experience and that of several friends and a number of people I have trained/ trained with. Mr. McRobert is simply one of the recognized experts who agrees with me. Why are you no longer working your arms and shoulders six days a week? As I said it is possible to get away with that training for a long period of time, but it will likely catch up in later life. I don't have a problem with short high volume routines, but I would be willing to bet that if you did that above arm and shoulder routine for the next ten years (assuming full intensity) you would suffer severe shoulder problems as well as overtraining. It's great that you added .75 inches to your arms, but for other people it might not work as well.
    As for the listed volume being high-volume, well, not for the chest or legs. But it is definitely high-volume for the shoulders, and that is my main problem with the routine. Otherwise I would tend to agree with your astute assessment of the routine.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-13-2002 at 10:40 PM.

  20. #20
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    How do you overtrain just the shoulders?

  21. #21
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    By doing three or more times as many sets for them as for the other bodyparts. Actually, damaging the shoulders would be a better term than overtraining them.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-13-2002 at 10:44 PM.

  22. #22
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    www.thinkmuscle.com has more Haycock articles - and B+I is right - it's OK to work your shoulders directly zwarrior.
    Four-Time World's Strongest Man

  23. #23
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Nope, Mr. McRobert may have wrote that, but I advocate against overtraining the shoulders, based on studies which show that shoulder injuries are the number one cause of injuries among people who lift weights.
    True. Lower back and shoulder injuries are the most common. Please reference the studies to which you are referring, though, as I doubt they make reference to the cause of the injuries.


    It is also based on my experience and that of several friends and a number of people I have trained/ trained with. Mr. McRobert is simply one of the recognized experts who agrees with me. Why are you no longer working your arms and shoulders six days a week?
    The reason I'm not currently using the routine is quite simple. There as a post by Bryan Haycock as to what he believes is the 'ideal' interpretation of HST. I figured I'd give it a shot. Also, I did the aformentioned routine while bulking and was able to add significant mass. I'm dieting now; there is little point in trying to bring up a lagging bodypart on submaintenance calories.


    As I said it is possible to get away with that training for a long period of time, but it will likely catch up in later life. I don't have a problem with short high volume routines, but I would be willing to bet that if you did that above arm and shoulder routine for the next ten years (assuming full intensity)
    That's the whole point. HST is almost never, and in fact need never be, 'full intensity'. You are drawing conclusions predicated on false assumptions.


    you would suffer severe shoulder problems as well as overtraining. It's great that you added .75 inches to your arms, but for other people it might not work as well.
    I might well run into overuse problems if I did the aformentioned routine for the next ten years. How many people stick to a single routine over the course of 10 years? Besides, think of this: people who play tennis often end up with tennis elbow. Many do not. No one stop playing tennis in fear of tennis elbow prior to the onset of symptoms, though. While I will take every precaution to avoid injury, I refuse to base my training on the idea that it ineluctably will lead to disability. If I did follow this to it's logical conclusion, I would stop training entirely, as even the most careful trainees, due to a mere moment's inattention or ego, often end up with injuries.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 08-13-2002 at 11:01 PM.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  24. #24
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    B&I - Where was that "ideal HST" thread. Is it is current? You are definitely the man when it comes to good URLs!

  25. #25
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MarshallPenn
    B&I - Where was that "ideal HST" thread. Is it is current? You are definitely the man when it comes to good URLs!
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/...pertrophy;st=0

    And here's a post by Bryan to a thread asking for peoples' current routines, which reflects what he says in the above thread(This is what I based my current routine upon):
    Originally posted by Bryan Haycock to the HST forums
    Here's mine currently.

    AM
    Squat
    Incline Bench
    T-bar row (supported)
    Calf (straight leg)
    Lateral raises
    Bent over laterals
    EZ curls
    Tri extensions

    PM
    Leg curl
    Leg extension
    Millitary press (lowering no further than top of head)
    Chins
    Dips
    Lateral raises
    lying rear delt raises (lie on bench on your side)
    DB curl
    Tri extension
    calf raise

    I warm up on the bike for at least 6 minutes with a lot of resistance (break a sweat). I do 2 "work sets" after an adequate warmup on each exercise. On off days I do cardio for 20 minutes twice per day, while I'm dieting anyway.

    BTW, I'm dieting very low carb during the week and carbing up on the weekends.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 08-13-2002 at 11:12 PM.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesn’t realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

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