The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Attacking Iraq

  1. #26
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    The US won't have a pres say "****, let's use nukes!" because the US has things in place to make SURE that things like that don't happen. We have quite an intricate and well-thought out government.

    Iraq does not. They have ONE man that will make the decisions for them.

    Give me a break.
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  2. #27
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    The thing that really astonishes me is the myopic nature of certain Europeans. As if they (because of their "sterling" foreign policies) have a monopoly on morality.

    Granted everyone has the right to criticize anything they "don't like"... but there should be some perspective maintained.

    I could portray most European nations in a manner far more disturbing than the usual, "down with America" critics manage to do to us (with pathetic arguments usually). But I, and most americans, don't.

    Of course, who's going to listen to me.... to do so would be to lose the "anti American" rallying point that is so desperately needed by some people.
    Last edited by RisingPhoenix; 01-05-2003 at 08:31 PM.

  3. #28
    Spartan Warrior The_Blackstar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nights
    Who's to say some crazy mother****er that makes Hussien look like Gandhi isn't going to slip into power with you guys?
    LOL, it could happen anywhere, if the conditions are right. Look at Nazi Germany. I don't see that happening here in the US any time soon though.

  4. #29
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix
    The thing that really astonishes me is the myopic nature of certain Europeans. As if they (because of their "sterling" foreign policies) have a monopoly on morality.

    Just wait until the next despot tries to take over Europe, a la Hitler and Mussolini. Of course we'll have to come over and bail them out. Again. Less than a generation after that happens they'll be bad-mouthing us again. France seems to be the worst about this, but Western Europe (save England) in general is similarly guilty. France as we know it basically ceased to exist 1940-1944. We are hugely responsible for them being freed of Nazi occupation. Same thing to a lesser extent in WWI. Look at the gratitude they've shown us the last 30 years.

  5. #30
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    Well I am going to post my opinion. Bare with me since my english is not the best neither is my typing.

    You see, the people that should really be terrified of war is us. I mean us young guys will most likely have to fight over in Iraq. If does turn into a religious(SP?) work we are in real deep trouble.
    With so many people opposing war, this can get down right become nasty.

    Lets prey that this war will not cause huge numbers of deaths. . If the U.S Army decides to pull the draft on..I will JOIN. There is no real option, chances are you'll be picked up. I rather go in with my head high and wanting to be there, rather then, having to be forced into service. (I was going to sign up for the Marines last year, but I changed my opinion somewhat.)

    What really angers me are people that agree with a war with Iraq (or any war in general), while, they won't ever see battle nor will their kids. They just agree and dont care about the young guys going in and risking their lifes. "YEAH, send the U.S army in"..while i am thousands of miles away and none of my love ones are involved.

    Dont agree unless you are willing to go over and face death, just like these men and women will be.
    Last edited by beastin v6; 01-05-2003 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #31
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    Good points beastin,

    During the last war in the Gulf, the war planners predicted that thousands of american/coalition troops would die fighting, but that turned out to be WAY off. the figure was around 240 dead, and about 120 of those were americans.

    Hussein's army is weaker now than it was then, It still hasn't completely recovered from the pounding it took the first war. people say he could use chemical weapons, then again, he could've used those in the last war.. our troops have NBC gear for that also.
    thats just my two cents.

    I also agree with you that its shameless to advocate war and not care about who goes off to die..
    Last edited by RisingPhoenix; 01-05-2003 at 11:07 PM.

  7. #32
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    Delphi,

    Yeah... it seems that those we assist have a knack for turning against us.

  8. #33
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix
    A book everyone should read right now is "threatening storm: the case for invading Iraq". Its written by a former CIA analyst who predicted the invasion of Kuwait and I've yet to see its major points refuted.

    Too many people assume that Hussein just wants to stay in power, like 'any other rational person' would. The problem is that he has his own distorted perception of the world and how things work.... causing him to make huge gambles with absolutely terrible odds.

    Once a nation gets nuclear weapons... dis-arming them becomes much more difficult....
    In Saddam's case, the attainment of nukes would make him a middle-east power nearly on par with Israel. He would be a threat to the stability of the gulf region... with his new bargaining toys, He sure as hell won't worry about over-running kuwait, Iran, Saudi Arabia.... and if that happens, the majority of the world's oil supply would end up in the hands of a dictator.
    **So what if the majority of the worlds oil supply comes in the hands of a dictator?


    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Even worse, any military intervention in Iraq could lead to him
    nuking Israel or other American allies in the region. Its best that we invade now and solve the problem before things get out of hand.
    **why are these countries american allies?


    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Another thing to consider is that Iraq, although headed by a dictator, is remarkably secular. More so than most middle eastern countries... we need another Turkey in the middle east... and dropping the current regime would be a good first step towards establishing an Iraqi democracy and free market economy.
    **Read: American colony

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Considering that the masses of neighboring Iran are pro-western, secular... this could have a powerful influence on them. As prosperity always does.... perhaps leading to democracy in Iran? One thing for sure is that this would be a great advancement of democracy and capitalism in the region
    **So? Democracy is bs... and capitalism is all that exists. only in some countries it exists controlled

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    ... and would do much to reduce the "human resources pool" that terrorists draw their recruits from. This is not about oil, Colin Powell has clearly stated that the US will not be taking control of the oil fields.
    **Of course they wont actually siege them. theyll make sure all thre money from them will be invested in american interests, and sold to america for easy money tho.

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Yes. We used Nuclear bombs. Consider the scenario.
    **People still die today from the effects of these bombs. consider that.


    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Yes. the US has supported Dictators in the past.... it is often criticized for this. HOWEVER, Many times it was beneficial to the people.... Take South Korea.
    **I`m not talking about south korea

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    The fact is in nations where law and order hjas broken down, Democracy can NOT be effectively implemented. It won't work well without a strong central govt.
    **ahh, democracy

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Some of the reasons we support these evil regimes (ie Saudi arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc..) is for that reason. Order and freedom go hand in hand. The central govt.'s may be corrupt and cruel... but they maintain order in hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism. These people are simply not ready for democracy.... but will be after major economic reforms which always manage to provide social change.
    **democracy....

    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix

    Was it right or wrong to support Pinochet? who knows, what were the other options? what we do know is that Chile is very well off compared to other nations in that region. The people who made that decision had to do it quick and without the benefit of hindsight info that we have.
    **this totally misses my point. a lot of people were killed in this situation, only to aid the american economy.

  9. #34
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    How dare you make all these points!

    Now the European arm-chair pacifist know-it-alls won't have anything to argue about!
    would/will you fight in this war matt?..
    kill and give your life for this ****?
    your the armchair soldier here

  10. #35
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rock
    And Europe, god damn Europe should give African nations so much money, they ****ed up the whole continent of Africa, France raped Algeri and what not,

    I would like to see Europes colonist nations get down on their knees and rebuild these nations now, white old rich men should go down there and build with their own hands.

    project repay, should start.
    Its not only that they have been hurt in the past, they are still being held down.

  11. #36
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DoubleGulp
    Reiner, if you're going to bring stuff up with Nixon that's just sad. Many people weren't born when he was president or couldn't even vote yet. That would be like me going up to someone from Germany and saying "Oh, look what your country did you Nazi!" That was a different time. Live with it.
    it was an example of what is done to colonise.

  12. #37
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by just_a_pup

    And Reinier...you still post useless babble while sit you in your cozy little part of the world reading whatever books you think are relevant and watch good ole al jazeera and think you have it figured out. Maybe someday when you grow up you'll even write a book of your own, probably titled "F*ck America".
    Been done actually. Willem oltmans - " the new nazis"

    no i did not read it.

    I do not hate america but i hate hypocrisy. i hate how we practise a little charity as spiritual masturbation while we are the very reason of the pain.

    I hate excuses, blames and bull****.
    The last time i watched al jazeera was 9/11 to see how they covered it. they spent exactly 5 seconds on the event, saying 2 planes flew into 2 buildings in new york, we dont know who or why, people died, end of message. then they resumed to talk about some mayor or some irrelevant ****.
    the rest of the day broadcast was continued as normal without any further mention.

    rather sick.

  13. #38
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RisingPhoenix
    The thing that really astonishes me is the myopic nature of certain Europeans. As if they (because of their "sterling" foreign policies) have a monopoly on morality.

    Granted everyone has the right to criticize anything they "don't like"... but there should be some perspective maintained.

    I could portray most European nations in a manner far more disturbing than the usual, "down with America" critics manage to do to us (with pathetic arguments usually). But I, and most americans, don't.

    Of course, who's going to listen to me.... to do so would be to lose the "anti American" rallying point that is so desperately needed by some people.
    i have never ever defended the morality of the actions of any european country

  14. #39
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    I dont see this stuff as holland, or a dutch guy or anything like that. i am not a patriot.

  15. #40
    Senior Member stantheman's Avatar
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    Reinier, do you even lift weights, or do you just come to this site to voice your own ignorant views?

  16. #41
    uncivilized savage BadKarma's Avatar
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    Maybe we would attack Iraq because it's in our best interest. Why have we helped out the rest of the world? Is it because we just want everybody to be happy? Don't think so. We spend billions on foreign aid and countless American soldier's lives because it serves our interests, plain and simple.
    During Desert Storm, did we fight Iraq because we felt bad for the Kuwaitis? No. We fought for the oil. We need the oil.
    Why do we have allies in the Mid-East? Because they serve our interest (and we serve theirs), not because we need another friend. This is no Utopia. Get over it. You should have stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago.

    Beastin', you bring up a very good point. Way too many times, the people call for war are not the people who will be affected by it.

    Peace...through superior firepower!
    Last edited by BadKarma; 01-07-2003 at 09:41 AM.
    If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace...
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    If you're in a fair fight, your tactics SUCK!

  17. #42
    uncivilized savage BadKarma's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nights
    Mostly a country that believes in the whole "right to arms" thing.



    And who's to say that the next president of the US won't suddenly decide "Hey, we got nukes.. **** the rule book, I'll be a dictatory." Who's to say some crazy mother****er that makes Hussien look like Gandhi isn't going to slip into power with you guys?
    The right to keep and arm bears...er, bear arms, is what helps to prevent the "next president...won't suddenly decide...I'll be a dictatory."
    If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace...
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    If you're in a fair fight, your tactics SUCK!

  18. #43
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    The fact that citizens are armed doesn't mean a thing. But the fact that citizens are armed AND are willing to use that force if need be DOES mean something. And that is the U.S., my friend.

    And Reiner, if you think that I wouldn't go over there and fight, you are sorely mistaken. Unfortunately, I can't join ANY branch of the military here in the U.S. I was very much considering a career in the Army as a biomedical weapons researcher (making weapons to kill the enemy). I would've gone Marines, but they don't have a division like this.

    My question to YOU, Reiner, is what exactly are YOU willing to fight and die for? What would it take for you to pick up a weapon and fight? What has to happen before you do this? Are terrorist attacks, threat of terrorist attacks, support of terrorist attacks, and the armament of an enemy nation with weapons that can law low the entire eastern seaboard of your country not enough?

    Shame on you. Shame on you for being so blind. How long would you wait? Would you wait until your country is on the brink of being destroyed? I hope not, you aren't French, right? You know one reason that the U.S. is at the height of the world stage? It's because we don't take crap from people. Some a-hole like Saddam is pulling his little stunts, we take care of them. If the entire world had your attitude, it's quite possible that another WW2 could happen again.

    Your attitude is what let Germany take over the majority of western Europe in the first place. IF ONLY some country like the U.S. had been sittin' next door and said "Hey, wait a sec... I don't like what's going on here.. These guys are breaking every treaty they ever agreed to, they're producing weaponry and armor like no other nation ever has.. Maybe we should be a BIT MORE worried about this??" But no.. That isn't what happened. And by the time Hitler rolled over many countries and you had 'your proof', it was a bit too late for mighty old Holland to defeat the man.

    You ever heard that "prevention is the best form of remedy" (or the million other sayings that say the same thing)? Waiting until Saddam drops a nuke on Israel and then attacking him would work just fine. EXCEPT that a few INNOCENT million would die to generate 'your proof'. Give me a break. The U.S. and many other countries have learned their lesson from the past. You seem very interested in history. Why haven't you realized the same lesson as well?
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

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  19. #44
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by stantheman
    Reinier, do you even lift weights, or do you just come to this site to voice your own ignorant views?
    I added 27 kgs of mass to my frame in 2002 and lost fat too.

    my political comments are actually not that many

  20. #45
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    Originally posted by Gyno Rhino
    I'm not gonna get into this discussion, there are too many like it.

    But here's the bottom line, Reiner.

    The US hasn't invaded a defenseless country without reason for quite a while.

    Iraq has.

    The US ain't gonna go drop nukes or bio-weapons on Holland to dominate the wooden shoe trade.

    But Iraq just might, if they get the whim.

    I understand you're against violence and war, Reiner, but this anti-anything-the-US-does is gettin' old. I mean, if Holland thought that Iraq was a threat and Holland decided to fight them, I'm not so sure you'd be so anti-war.
    Its not as simple as its made here... as tho injustice and pain of many people are only done by an invasion. nobody even invades anything anymore, kinda.

    If Holland would do the exact same thing (if it even could, but regardless) my opinion would be the same.
    I`m quite sure about that.

    America already has a massive influence, perhaps even authority over the market in holland.

  21. #46
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gyno Rhino
    The fact that citizens are armed doesn't mean a thing. But the fact that citizens are armed AND are willing to use that force if need be DOES mean something. And that is the U.S., my friend.

    And Reiner, if you think that I wouldn't go over there and fight, you are sorely mistaken. Unfortunately, I can't join ANY branch of the military here in the U.S. I was very much considering a career in the Army as a biomedical weapons researcher (making weapons to kill the enemy). I would've gone Marines, but they don't have a division like this.

    My question to YOU, Reiner, is what exactly are YOU willing to fight and die for? What would it take for you to pick up a weapon and fight? What has to happen before you do this? Are terrorist attacks, threat of terrorist attacks, support of terrorist attacks, and the armament of an enemy nation with weapons that can law low the entire eastern seaboard of your country not enough?
    ** I would not fight for holland. or europe. or my town.
    I would fight for my family, my friends, a loved one. my personal freedom.

    Originally posted by Gyno Rhino

    Shame on you. Shame on you for being so blind. How long would you wait? Would you wait until your country is on the brink of being destroyed? I hope not, you aren't French, right? You know one reason that the U.S. is at the height of the world stage? It's because we don't take crap from people. Some a-hole like Saddam is pulling his little stunts, we take care of them. If the entire world had your attitude, it's quite possible that another WW2 could happen again.
    **but what makes our violent foreign policy justified and theirs their little stunts? arent they just protecting their countries interests?

    Saddam is basically being portrayed as tho all he wants to do is kill people. I dont believe it. If the west was not as authoritive (if the word dont exist sorry) he would have no reason to dislike us.
    We are and thats in our best interest. It keeps us on top and we are in a position that we can afford to do this.
    I am lucky that this happens since i live on the right side.

    that does not mean i find it morally justified.
    I can not understand how people can feel personally attacked by this.

    I mean the usa is colonising, arming themselves, breaking treaties, its the western empire. But this is the good empire, because we are in it......

  22. #47
    Bad Monkey! Nights's Avatar
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    You think the fact citizens are armed mean a damn thing? You know what small percentage of german population was actually Nazi under Hitler? The whole world war 2 thing could have been easily taken down from the inside out, but people, normal regular people, are not exactly the type to make a stand. Their sheep. How many times in your own history have bad decisions been made yet nobody stood up because it didn't really affect them, or because they were afraid to.

    And skip the part about a dictator then. Who's to say the next president.. hell, even the current one.. won't decide to start dropping bombs.. or sending out troops (death = death).. for his own interest.
    LaLa

  23. #48
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    [B]In another thread i stated that politicians held no real power and were puppets of the economy powers and that economy controls policy and then politicians have to sell that stuff to the people.
    The running of a country especially since its so international these days can not really be measured or seen and is therefor subject for understanding to a model, much like in sciences.
    the model of theoritical democracy is very poor in explaining things that happen compared to the model that every action is simply what will give the most profit.

    everybody agreed. yet this thread is full of statements that do not apply this.
    A pres could not take control in another direction as Nights suggests, presidents who do things that arent liked get shot.
    Last edited by Reinier; 01-07-2003 at 08:20 AM.

  24. #49
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Delphi
    Get a life.
    I have a life

  25. #50
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    That was a piss-poor rebuttal of my post.

    but i'll respond anyways.

    "So what if the majority of the worlds oil supply comes in the hands of a dictator?"

    If i have to explain to you why this is bad, then you have no concept of real-politik whatsoever. It means you allow him to get a hegemony over the middle east and become a fairly large power. With Iraq controlling Iran, Saudi arabia, kuwait and possibly other countries... his economy will boom, throw chemical/bio weapons into this and you have a possible hitler.

    "why are these countries american allies?"

    once again, common sense.

    "Read: American colony"

    Ok, Iraq has its own democracy and free market economy... leading to prosperity. Gosh we Americans are so cruel.

    "So? Democracy is bs... and capitalism is all that exists. only in some countries it exists controlled"

    Your idealism has resurfaced again. Its the best option that anyone has in this world.

    "Of course they wont actually siege them. theyll make sure all thre money from them will be invested in american interests, and sold to america for easy money tho."

    I doubt this will happen. and either way, allowing the Iraqis to sell their oil will benefit THEM in the process as well.


    **People still die today from the effects of these bombs. consider that."

    I have. and i feel for them. I don't blame the American govt. for dropping the bomb, I blame the Japanese govt. for putting us into a position where we had to do such a thing.

    "**I`m not talking about south korea"

    Of course you wouldn't. It wouldn't suit your interests to do so.

    "ahh, democracy"

    Is that all you can come up with?

    "democracy...."

    See above.

    "this totally misses my point. a lot of people were killed in this situation, only to aid the american economy."

    YOU totally missed my point. The American govt. had a select number of options with precious little information and not much time to act..... Foreign policy is a lawless realm. What were the other options? Befriending Allende? He was a commie receiving/giving aid to/from the Soviet Union and China, and whatever regimes the US supported, none of them were as bad as the Soviets. anyways,

    During the second and third years of his rule, Chilean demand outstripped supply, their economy free-falled downwards, deficit spending increased greatly, new investments and foreign exchange became scarce, the value of copper sales dropped, shortages happened, and inflation skyrocketed, negating the previous gains for the working class. A thriving black market sprang up. which increased crime and dis-order greatly... Allende was growing increasingly unpopular in CHile for his failure to do anything right.
    after the 1973 elections, you had right wing and left wing groups in Chile vying for the blood of the socialists.... some of them were literally banging on the doors of army barracks to start a coup and get things under control! There was a failed coup in June that year...but General pinochet's worked. In all honesty, revolution was inevitable in Chile given the situation.

    General Pinochet came to power, and although there were many Human rights abuses under his rule...I still believe that dis-order is worse than Injustice. Most of the people who suffered these abuses were the communists and the members of the Popular Unity party... the same people who were out on the streets causing dis-order and chaos. In dis-order, everyone has to live in fear of being victimized, whereas injustice is directed usually at those who in some way 'oppose' the govt, which is also very wrong, but better than any other option available at that time.

    Pinochet fixed the economy of Chile with his team of economists (the chicago boys) and as a result Chile is one of the most prosperous nations in that regoin today. The period of 1976-1981 was dubbed "The Chilean miracle" for this reason.

    No matter how bad things were for some people under Pinochet's rule, some of the policies he implemented have turned out to be quite beneficial for those he ruled. and Chile is all the better for it.

    Anyways,

    I'd like you to name a superpower that has acted with as much restraint and showed as much concern for the downtrodden as the US has.

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