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Thread: Some thoughts on Training.

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Some thoughts on Training.

    I was at the gym today, doing Shoulders, Biceps and Tris..

    Anyways.. I get to Triceps and need to do pulldowns with a straight bar.

    I use full ROM from my hands being in front of my chest till my arms are fully extended in front of my thighs.

    Anyways, the weight becomes too heavy at the top of the movement but if I manage to get it past the most difficult point where there is a 90 degree angle between my forearms and my upper arms it becomes easier to go thru the full range of motion.

    At the end of the set I cant pull down the bar from the start position as its so difficult from there.

    However if i lowered the start position to the 90 degree angle I could extend my arms and go all the way down.

    So my observation was that my tris couldnt pull as much weight as they would if I started from the middle of the original Range of Motion.

    If this is the case, wouldnt my muscle get maximum load if I used a lighter weight and only did half range of motion from start(where my hands are just in front of my upper chest to where my forearms are at a 90 degree angle from my upper arms) and use a heavier load for the bottom half..

    This would seperate the exercise into 2 halves but I would be loading my triceps with as much load as they could take at different positions.

    Recipe for optimal muscle stimulation?

    Tell me your thoughts on this. I dont have any real education in the body or exercise, but I would like to hear comments from people who are very experienced in BBing and ppl who have an educaion surrounding it.

    Thanks in advance,

    Binbs.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ebon00's Avatar
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    Each exercise has a sticking point. Working in a range that eliminates the sticking point will allow heavier weights but the reduced ROM will hurt you in the long run. I suggest you use a heavy weight throughout your set but start out doing full reps (say 6-8). When the weight becomes too heavy for the upper part of the ROM, cheat the weight down with a little body english and continue repping out in the strong part of the ROM.
    Last edited by ebon00; 01-27-2003 at 01:46 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Use a weighted dip belt when performing tricep pulldowns. And use a weight that will allow your body to stay lowto the ground. This will allow you to use heavier weights on the tricep pulldowns and your body won't get pulled upwards by the weight you use.

    Oh, i forgot to say, lean over the cable. Let the cable touch one side of your shoulder and lean forward over with your chest on top of the cable bar. Try not to use too much of your chest though when doing this. Just focus all your efforts on to your tris.

    Robert

  4. #4
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    When the weight becomes too heavy for the upper part of the ROM, cheat the weight down with a little body english and continue repping out in the strong part of the ROM.
    I dont understand how this is different to what I described.

    You see cheating on the upper half of the ROM makes the load easier on the muscle. Wouldnt it be better to simply use a lighter weight and keep the form strict?

    I dont see how this would benefit you more than simply cutting the exercise into 2 halves and using a different load on each one to maximize the stress on the muscle.

    Think about it. It seems theoretically correct to me.

    Since your muscle has a different max weight on different positions, why not make sure its overloaded to its "limit" to stimulate optimal growth.

  5. #5
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    This thread is going into the top 10 terrible threads archive.

  6. #6
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    Why do you say that?

    I dont see anything wrong with actually thinking about how you train.

    That would be much better in my opinion than simply training mindlessly or just following routines writtens by others. Not saying everyone elses routines suck, but I think its a good thing to actually think about how you train as well.
    Last edited by Binbs; 01-27-2003 at 04:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Robert
    Use a weighted dip belt when performing tricep pulldowns. And use a weight that will allow your body to stay lowto the ground. This will allow you to use heavier weights on the tricep pulldowns and your body won't get pulled upwards by the weight you use.

    Oh, i forgot to say, lean over the cable. Let the cable touch one side of your shoulder and lean forward over with your chest on top of the cable bar. Try not to use too much of your chest though when doing this. Just focus all your efforts on to your tris.

    Robert
    Why would you use a weighted dip belt? And why would your body stay low to the ground? A tricep pushdown is performed standing. You stand next to the machine and hold the bar or rope handle with both hands facing palm down. Using your triceps, you push the weight down while standing erect. Your elbows should stay against your sides while doing this. You should be standing straight up. You do NOT lean over the cable. That is using your bodyweight and not your triceps to push the weight down. Nor should your body get pulled upwards by the weight. If you are doing these with proper form there is no way in H**l you should be able to use a weight greater than your bodyweight. I don't know if you are talking about lat pulldowns or tricep pushdowns or another exercise all together. But proper form is standing straight up, palms down and using the strength in your triceps to push the bar down. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 01-27-2003 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    I have to say, it's a valid question. And in my experience, having that sticking point is normal. The tricep is getting its workout... you don't have to overdo it by dividing the ROM for one muscle into 2 exercises. Just get used to it, and practice stricter form so that you can go further and further with it as time goes on.
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  9. #9
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    I don't do tri pushdowns but I could see how it might pull up on you. If you lean forward and stay fixed your not using your body to move it, just changing the center of gravity. Just my thoughts, I haven't done them in a long time.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Berserker
    I don't do tri pushdowns but I could see how it might pull up on you. If you lean forward and stay fixed your not using your body to move it, just changing the center of gravity. Just my thoughts, I haven't done them in a long time.

    Exactly my point. You are changing the center of gravity and placing it over the cable. Try doing them both ways. You will find that leaning over the cable makes it easier. Anytime you make an exercise easier to do, you will get less out of it (in terms of muscle stimulation)

  11. #11
    Senior Member ebon00's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Binbs
    If this is the case, wouldnt my muscle get maximum load if I used a lighter weight and only did half range of motion from start(where my hands are just in front of my upper chest to where my forearms are at a 90 degree angle from my upper arms) and use a heavier load for the bottom half..

    This would seperate the exercise into 2 halves but I would be loading my triceps with as much load as they could take at different positions.
    This was what I was replying to. The load in the upper part of the ROM doesn't have to be lighter since you're eliminating the sticking point. I'm sure you can still get the arms down to 90 degress where you claim to fail, it's just that you can't get past that point. So, reducing the weight for the upper range isn't really necessary as that only means that the sticking point won't be an issue (if you lighten the load, there's no sticking point at the particular rep range you're in).

    Originally posted by Binbs
    You see cheating on the upper half of the ROM makes the load easier on the muscle. Wouldnt it be better to simply use a lighter weight and keep the form strict?

    I dont see how this would benefit you more than simply cutting the exercise into 2 halves and using a different load on each one to maximize the stress on the muscle.
    If you're not keeping the form in the upper part of the ROM strict now you should lower the load but do full reps (since then the sticking point logically shouldn't be a problem) and work on technique. My point is: only the sticking point need be 'avoided' in order to overload the different phases of the ROM. But, that means that you never train the muscle at the sticking point which will carry over to your other exercises uses elbow extension. So, you need a full ROM in order to have proper biomechanics. It's like saying: "my right leg is stronger so in order to train it effectively I will only be training that leg from now on". It misses the point.
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic



    Exactly my point. You are changing the center of gravity and placing it over the cable. Try doing them both ways. You will find that leaning over the cable makes it easier. Anytime you make an exercise easier to do, you will get less out of it (in terms of muscle stimulation)
    Usually I agree. Also like I said I haven't done these in awhile. But if the weights is lifting up on you I don't see the harm in changing your center of gravity to keep your feet on the floor.

  13. #13
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by bullethead
    two words ---- skull crushers!!
    I agree.

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  15. #15
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    a good technique 4 tris is chain training
    this method was created by poulquin here goes
    u add cain on the bar with weights hanging off it when your tris get below 90 degrees the \weight touches the floor and becomes easier like accomadating resistance training
    give it a try

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