The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Colin Powell's speech

    Colin powell made a speech about Iraq. I don't intend this to become another debate on whether or not we should go to war, but this is interesting reading.
    There are three parts to it.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...889531,00.html

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  3. #2
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    I don't think anyone can effectively argue that there is no evidence anymore.

  4. #3
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    I didn't like a lot of things about it, but here is what I disliked the most.

    I can't tell you everything we know.

  5. #4
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    I didn't like a lot of things about it, but here is what I disliked the most.

    Of course he can't tell you everything he knows. It's of strategic military importance, and would tip Saddam's people off to vital American intelligence. I highly doubt it would change the minds of those who are opposed to the war anyway. Nothing short of Saddam bombing one of our Western cities with a chemical weapon would suffice.
    half man, half amazing

  6. #5
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Oh, so the story changes now and Saddam has the capability to deliver these weapons. That speech was filled with propoganda. This debate has been beaten into the ground and is pointless.

  7. #6
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    I didn't start this thread as a debate.

    The speech had hard evidence.... Lets see how this works out.
    Last edited by RisingPhoenix; 02-05-2003 at 08:07 PM.

  8. #7
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    And with respect to that, I won't participate in a debate. But at best, I think a lot of what is in that speech would fall into the category of "circumstantial evidence" were it a US courtroom.

  9. #8
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    I didn't like a lot of things about it, but here is what I disliked the most.

    *sigh*

    I think in just about every thread regarding Iraq I have stated that there is more than people know about in terms of the US intellegence.

    Do you honestly think the US would spill the beans on everything we know? Why not just tell Saddam that we'll turn around for a sec and he can go hide everything that we do know about so we can start all over again. The military relies on having top secret intellegence info to base an attack on, and by revealing what we know just makes it easy for the enemy to adjust accordingly.

    In a football game the offence never tells the defence what play they think the defence will run. They might be right, but after telling the defence such you can bet the defence will make sure not to run the play.

    I'm not going to post again so don't plan on replying to everything I just said with the expectations that I'll post another responce. As for the speech- it's nothing I wasn't expecting. Bascially that we have information regarding A,B, and C, here are a few photographs supporting it, but we can't release all the information we have.
    Last edited by GIS; 02-05-2003 at 08:28 PM.

  10. #9
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Do you honestly think the US would spill the beans on everything we know? Why not just tell Saddam that we'll turn around for a sec and he can go hide everything that we do know about so we can start all over again. The military relies on having top secret intellegence info to base an attack on, and by revealing what we know just makes it easy for the enemy to adjust accordingly.

    In a football game the offence never tells the defence what play they think the defence will run. They might be right, but after telling the defence such you can bet the defence will make sure not to run the play.
    Don't reply, who cares. I'll just say a couple things:

    1) When you're going to kill human beings, you better provide everything and not just circumstance.
    2) The defense isn't trying to kill anyone on the offense. Playing a game cannot seriously be compared to a war where people are going to die.

  11. #10
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    SF, when you come back to reality, let us know. Then we'll discuss.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
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  12. #11
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    Back from where? You choose to accept propoganda and circumstance, I don't. And if you think football is comparable to war, then perhaps it's you who need to come back to reality.

  13. #12
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    I never associated the two. I just think your comments on intelligence and the secrecy thereof is so far from reality that it's laughable.

    I don't accept propaganda and circumstance. I don't believe I've made any comment either way. Don't get your panties all in a wad.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
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  14. #13
    maximum electronica orbital's Avatar
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    After a full week of rhetoric and threats I was really interested in hearing what Powell had to offer today. I was dissapointed yet again. It was known beforehand that there would be no "smoking gun" today but Powell's speech was even more dissapointing than that. The links to Al Quaeda, were purely heresay. The suspected nuclear programme, similarly came with absolutely nothing but talk. The suspected chemical and biological weapons programmes were the only areas where Powell so much as considered offering up what would normally be considered as "hard evidence."

    We are treated to satellite photos of a suspected chemical weapons plant. Colin Powell's argument is that the Iraqi's have moved the topsoil and that there has been activity there(trucks etc.)
    My god, there is no fooling these guys.

    We are also treated to audiotapes purportedly proving that the Iraqi's were attempting to hide their WMD programmes prior to the inspectors return last year. Unfortunately no names, times or places are offered. We are made to simply believe that these audio recordings mean what the U.S. wants them to mean.

    As with the photos, there is no indication that Powell is dead-wrong here. He may in fact be 100% bang on that the Iraqi's did plan to move their WMD before the inspectors return and that they had restarted their chemical weapons plants.

    Unfortunately there is also no indication that Powell is right either. There are just as many circumstances that anyone could easily imagine as to why the Iraqi's had trucks at that site and why the topsoil was removed or who those people were on those tapes, when they were recored and where. Powell's arguments will not work in a court of law, and logic will not follow them either.

    What we have here is a Government that wants war so badly and against all odds, be it domestic opinion, world opinion or international law that it will stop at nothing to out-rhetoric any opposition. In common terms, this is called "propaganda." In Pentagon terms this is called "strategic influence."

    The real issue at hand here concerns who the real danger to the world is. For a nation that has been involved in more wars since WWII than probably half of the world's countries combined is it any wonder that most people on this planet view the U.S. as that threat?

    http://www.time.com/time/europe/gdml/peace2003.html

    Let's stop the warmongering and try to find real solutions to disarm this world, not just Iraq. It starts with diplomacy and inspections and it continues with a look in the mirror.
    Last edited by orbital; 02-05-2003 at 10:38 PM.
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  15. #14
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    I really don't know how you can dismiss it all as "hearsay" and "nothing but talk" . As for the audio tapes, it only makes sense that the people speaking on the phone wouldn't use dates. Also, Powell did offer dates for a few of the conversations. The Iraq-Al qaeda nexus sounded pretty credible...he's done it with other terrorist gruops in the past.
    I don't know what else could have been expected...suitcases of Iraqi Uranium? There is also much more to the chemical weapons factory than topsoil, there was a human source confirming that chemical weapons were transferred...and photographs of cargo vehicles. Whether this work in a court of law or not is completely irrelevant... we have a strong central govt. to ensure order in our homeland and can't use domestic standards for world affairs...which happen in a lawless realm.
    Refuting his argument would require inside evidence...or the "he must have fabricated the whole damn thing" argument. Which is quite cynical in this day and age.
    Dis-arming the world is pure idealism. Putting down our weapons and expecting everyone else to would be disastrous.
    Last edited by RisingPhoenix; 02-05-2003 at 11:05 PM.

  16. #15
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    and damn it, i'm not getting into a long ass discussion about this again. I just wanted to post the damn speech. lol.

  17. #16
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    Originally posted by Saturday Fever
    Back from where? You choose to accept propoganda and circumstance, I don't. And if you think football is comparable to war, then perhaps it's you who need to come back to reality.
    Can the ACT of war be compared to a game of football? No. Do elements of football, let alone any strategic game have similarities to war? Yes. Why do you think they play WAR GAMES? The strategy implemented in wars can and are used in other aspects of life and vise versa. Ever heard or read the book called "Art of War?". Just because football players don't carry m-16s and lob frag grenades at the opposing team while they are being mustard gased does not mean you can't draw comparisions.

    "1) When you're going to kill human beings, you better provide everything and not just circumstance."
    In an idealistic world that would be the case. Wars have been started over much less. The case is everyone knows it Sadam is one evil/crazy bastard. He has used and possessed WMD before. He has screwed (lied and tricked) with the UN/US on many occassions before. Now he says he has none... I wonder where they went???? and why they expelled the UN inspectors?

  18. #17
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Look, you wanna end this discussion, just start the personal insults. Saturday Fever, you're a terrorist. Orbital, you're an ignorant worthless Canadian, Gonepostal, you're a psychotic right wing war monger, Rising Phoenix, you're a pathetic sh*t-stirrer.

    See? United in mutual dislike.

    Group hug, you lovely collection of sons of b*tches.


    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
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  19. #18
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    damn.

    and all i did was post a speech. lol.

  20. #19
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    with that said..

    let the mud slinging begin.

  21. #20
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    I hate you all...

    Nukem 'til they glow!!

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  22. #21
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  23. #22
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    The facts are Sadam kills his own people and other groups as he sees fit (kurds)....Do we stop that or let it continue? Do we need him to bomb an American base or city? What about him just selling his stuff to Al Queda? Is it ok he payrolls the PLO suicide bombers familes that Kill civilian Israelies? At sometime you have to draw the line in the sand.....the line was drawn by the UN , agreed by Iraq....they have defied that........

    For all you smoking guns is needed group. Lets say you are on a street corner and a punk , thug puts a gun to your head and threatens to kill you. A police officer walks by a sees this put says, I will not intervene the gun is not smoking, and from where I am at I can not see if it "really" has any bullets in it. you still feel the same? I know it as all about principle with you ....

    ( we all know it takes both a gun and bullets and a willing individual , to make that a deadly combination, all we have in Iraq is the individual and some of the compents found, the bullets are hiding)

  24. #23
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    Originally posted by Belial
    I never associated the two. I just think your comments on intelligence and the secrecy thereof is so far from reality that it's laughable.

    I don't accept propaganda and circumstance. I don't believe I've made any comment either way. Don't get your panties all in a wad.
    Saturday Fever wears panties? What a wierdo
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  25. #24
    uncivilized savage BadKarma's Avatar
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    we all know it takes both a gun and bullets and a willing individual , to make that a deadly combination
    No it doesn't! All it takes is those evil guns! They do it all by themselves! They produce bullets and pull their own trigger... The thug is a victim of the evil gun, I tell you!
    If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace...
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    If you're in a fair fight, your tactics SUCK!

  26. #25
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    Well I was hoping to slip that by you BadKarma......you are right , but funny how cars are never accused of doing the same......they kill how many more people a year????

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