AlexR: LOL! I didnt even realize what the heck you were talking about man. I kept looking at it like, HUH? Thanks for bringing that to my attention man. Porn and beans, wonder how many calories in that meal, haha.
Saturday Fever: LOL.
hey Mon(sounds jamaican huh?), first of all, how does organic soda taste?? 2nd, if you have a fat phobia then drop the wendy's meals, and apple pies with cool whip.
also, i think you should spend about 2 months just bulking like a mad-man, and say "**** it if i get fat!", then after a couple months cut the fat off. kind of a "mini-bulk".
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. - Edward Abbey
There is a wide difference between speaking to deceive, and being silent to be impenetrable. - Voltaire
If it can be imagined, it can be done. - Me
MrWebb: Organic soda tastes AWESOME, it is way better tasting than regular soda if you ask me. Haha, I need to fix up my diet, but whatever. It doesnt bother me that much. I am so much happier eating the way that I do rather than a typical "clean" diet. Yeah I dont know what I am going to do at this point man, I really want to see myself hit a 350 bench, 500 squat, and 600 dead pretty damn soon. My bench has been in a rut for a while now. Need to do something about that.
You have some great lifts going for you.
What is your protein intake right now? I read a few of your meal plans and I thought it looked to be fairly low, imo. Try and up it pretty high. Try adding a shake (50g pro) to every 2nd meal, or in between.
Would someone please explain what a diet higher in protein will do?
As I've said time and time again, don't lend too much weight to what you're eating. Calories are a metric unit of measurement for combustion. And fat is the most efficient form as it yields 9 calories per 1 gram. So what possible benefit could a diet low in fat be?
I've also stated, and stand by, that if you want to be, and look like, a bodybuilder then you may as well just jump on the steroids wagon because you can't do it naturally. It is a much more realistic goal for a natural lifter to work on strength gains. And the logical conclusion would be that to increase the amount of energy you can exert lifting a maximal weight, you would be better off increasing your fat intake. Then, if you're worried about gaining too much fat, you can increase the volume of the work done after your maximal work to burn up as many calories as you'd like. But don't rob yourself of precious energy for a silly goal like "bodybuilding."
STM: I dont think that my protein intake is ever THAT bad. I mean its never all that high, but I dont think its as horrible as some people seem to think. Then again everyone thinks that you need to have 1-1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight to make any kind of gains. Seems ridiculous if you ask me.
Saturday Fever: I really like your opinion on calories and all that man. Although I am not sure where I stand on the subject, I do feel like I am favoring what you think versus what most people seem to think. Especially considering what your friggin' gains have been the past few months. I am curious SF, in your opinion, when should one take in more calories, on a training or non-training day? Preworkout it seems a surplus of calories is good to fuel your energy stores. However postworkout and the day after a workout it seems like a good idea because you need excess calories to recovery from the workout. I am just curious if you think one should take in more food on training days versus non-training days?
Also, about the bodybuilding thing. Naturally one cannot even START to think about getting anywhere I dont think. I worked out purely for the fun of it and for hypertrophy before, never to compete. Now I am simply training for more hypertrophy, but for strength as well. I really love training for strength, keeps things interesting if you ask me.
Monstar I can tell you something we did at my old college, when our bench press strength would plateau. What we did was we had someone lay on the floor, then have someone else roll a barbell on top of your chest. That way if you do a couple of sets like that, you are just working on the sticking point directly. Just thought if you got real desperate you could try that...
hey Monstar...haha porn and beans, i laughed out loud when I read that.
to SF, I agree with you on the fact that calories count more than high amounts of protein. I am doing MUCH better in my lifts by counting cals than I did by drinking protein shakes. I do get a lot protein in my current bulk diet, but mostly I make sure that I get the cals before I worry about the amount of protein.
The thing is, everywhere you look you see high protein ratios being rated as the only way to gain muscle. You dont see ads in magazines for calories, only for protein. Thats one one the reasons I'm glad I found WBB, This place is WAY better than the latest magazine for information!
Sorry mike, didnt want to spam your journal, just agreeing with SF
30MAY03 = 800 Total - Bench 230, Squat 245, Deadlift 325
22OCT04 = 960 Total - Bench 275, Squat 305, Deadlift 380
Most push-ups in one minute = 102 (BW:195lbs)
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George B. Shaw
FOOD is my drug of choice
Saturday Fever, Monstar.
I can only speak from my experience, and my training partners. Increasing your protein to high levels does help increase gains. That is my experience.
How many times do people try some new fancy "bull testicle" supplement because it might work? Change training programs to the newest positions of flexion, power factor training, HST, Westside blah blah blah....why not double dose your protein? It may just work...does for me.
Just a thought. I think you have an amazing strength base, and you should definately get pounding the calories/protein.
A question you dont have to answer, do you juice Monstar?
pagan: Yeah I might give floor presses a shot, they seem to be a good exercise. Very similar to lockouts if you ask me. Thanks for chiming in man, appreciate it.
Kenn: Yeah I completely agree that calories count MUCH more than protein does. I think that your overall calorie intake is what will build muscle not an overall protein intake. You can take in 300g of protein and only be taking in 1500 calories, and not gain any lean body mass at all if you ask me. I think that overall your calorie intake should be high, and that will really help with gains. LOL, about the porn and beans. And I used to depend on magazines too for my information, glad that I found WBB.
STM: I dont know, a very high protein intake did help me preserve my muscle a few years back when I was cutting. Thats about it though. It didnt seem to do much more than that. And I think that a surplus of calories combined with Westside will really help me gain some awesome strength. And no, I do not juice. I have never done anything more than protein/creatine/ephedrine. Not even prohoromones or anything like that. I did do one day of glucophage though, lol, some people might want me to add that. Thanks for chiming in STM.
Well, think simplistically. What are you doing when you're consuming a lot of protein? Let's take an extreme example and say you're consuming 600g of protein a day. That translates to 2400 calories. Now let's say you're eating 300g of fat a day. That translates to 2700 calories. What is more efficient? You eat less fat and get more energy.
Now while I agree that protein is essential to a diet, I think the supplement industry has greatly overrated it. There are certain body functions that require protein, no doubt. But to say "up your protein and you'll get bigger" is just false. Your body is a miraculous machine. If you only consume 30g of protein in a day, your body will be good with 30g. If you consume 400g a day, your body will be good with 400g. The amount isn't so important because your body "needs" exactly what you give it, be it 30g or 400g.
A much better approach is to view protein/carbs/fat physiologically. And in that respect, it really doesn't matter. Eating fat doesn't mean you're consuming a direct source of fat. Stored energy becomes fat, to be sure, but that is why I say your non-maximal work should be geared to burning excess calories.
Look at it another way. To achieve hypertrophy, you have to lift an unspecified amount of weight for an unspecified amount of time. (Unspecified because it varies person to person and time and tension) So let's say you can typicaly bench 300x4. Why can you lift 300 four times? Neural adaptation aside, it's because you have the energy. Ever worked out at 5pm after not eating a thing all day? Then you're familiar with the "bogged down" feeling such an idea accompanies. The energy you use to lift that 300lb comes directly from what you eat. So do you eat 600g of protein so you have 2400 calories to burn? Or do you eat 300g of fat so you have 2700 calories to burn? Now obviously you aren't going to sit down and eat pure fat, but the idea stands. I would challenge anyone still working from the protein myth to accept my ideas for 2 weeks and see if strength gains are not above your normal.
Nice post SF, when you put the nutrition game like that it makes more sense and i agree that the 'protein push' is over-rated, energy is the key as long as you get the required aminos there is no problem
oh and hey mike when you next working out?
The only limits are the one's you place on yourself...
What works for u is what u need to stick to big man!!!!
Saturday Fever: An awesome post man, I completely agree with what youre saying. I think the point is even more clear when you think about the following---its preworkout, and you have the choice between eating 100g of protein, and 100g of fat. Obviously the typical bodybuilder would pick the 100g of protein, yielding 400 calories. But if he chose the 100g of fat that would yield 900 calories, more than double the energy of the protein. I also find your view on calories as units of combustion very interesting SF.
As you guys know I am not a diet fanatic. But then again, I do NOT feel like my diet has impeded my strength or size gains in any way shape or form. I feel like diet in general is completely overrated. I think that a surplus of calories is obviously important, but when it comes to the specific macronutrient breakdown it is simply not necessary. This is something that I have found over the past 5 months obviously. Not something that I came up with overnight.
Ron: Yeah, SF's post was excellent. And as you know and have seen all that matters to me is calories (energy), just left Burger King a few minutes ago actually, lol. Anyway I train today, ME squat/deadlift. And Ill tell you man, I am contemplating whether I should try 6 plates or not. I REALLY want to nail that, I mean I want it so bad. And I really think that I have it in me. I dont know yet, Ill see how I feel. I am going to pack in some calories beforehand, thats for sure!
pagan: I agree man, as I have been eating strictly for calories, for about the past 6 months now. And it has worked out great to be honest. Westside + eating whatever I want = awesome results for me.
Anyone who chose 100g of protein over 100g of fat would be severely cheating themselves. And no bodybuilder would care. For starters, bodybuilders are jacked to the brim on steroids, and when you see them in competition form, they're disgustingly dehydrated. A smart, natural lifter would choose a diet that is efficient and structure their routine to fit that diet.Main Entry: cal∑o∑rie
Variant(s): also cal∑o∑ry /'ka-l&-rE, 'kal-rE/
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: French calorie, from Latin calor heat, from calEre to be warm -- more at LEE
1 a : the amount of heat required at a pressure of one atmosphere to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree Celsius that is equal to about 4.19 joules -- called also gram calorie, small calorie; abbreviation cal b : the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water one degree Celsius : 1000 gram calories or 3.968 Btu -- called also large calorie; abbreviation Cal
2 a : a unit equivalent to the large calorie expressing heat-producing or energy-producing value in food when oxidized in the body b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie
Saturday Fever: A good post man, but I have to say that if you asked a bodybuilder which he would take preworkout, a protein shake that was 100g of protein, or a cup of heavy whipping cream that was 100g of fat (with taste aside), I definitely think he would choose the protein shake. And that is a good definition of a calorie, by the way.
By the way, for those that were interested, the organic cookies from my work are Alternative Baking Company Inc. Theyre around 500 calories for most flavors, and 6-10g of protein. Made with wheat flour I believe, and theyre not all that high in sugar considering how good tasting they are.
Meal 1: granola bar, 2% milk, multi-vitamin/mineral
Meal 2: 1 Burger King 5-piece chicken tender, 1 Burger King hershey pie, 1 Burger King onion rings
Meal 3: organic cookie
Meal 4: macaroni & cheese, organic soda
Preworkout: 25 mg. ephedrine hcl, 2 Zantrex-3
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1 serving whey protein, 1 serving Cell-Tech, 200 mg. r-ALA
Estimated Calories: ~3700
- Training---ME Squat/Deadlift
Jeez, lol, helped out some guy in my gym with his diet/training for about 15 minutes. Workout would have been much shorter. He really appreciated it though and I love helping people so I didnt really mind. Oh well. He was really yellin' when I yanked up 6 plates, lol.
135 x 3, 225 x 3, 315 x 2, 405 x 1, 585 x 1!
6 F*CKING PLATES BABY! This is what I am talking about, extremely pleased today at the gym. SMOKED 585, and I am not even f*cking kidding. Bar speed was right on, not slow at all. Had 3 different guys afterwards tell me that I could definitely handle more than that. That's always a good thing to hear, lol. Anyway, going to back off my maxes for a while. See if I can hit 605 the next time I test my 1RM for deadlift. Well see what happens in the next few months.
21 Plates x 5!, 18 Plates x 7, 16 Plates x 8
Some good sets of leg presses today, fried my quads pretty bad. Used 21 plates, and if you guys are wondering how I got an odd # of plates, Ill explain. My leg press has 2 things on the side of the sled you can load plates on, and one thing up the middle of the sled. So 10 plates on each side, and then 1 in the middle. Dropped down to 18 for 7, and then 16 for 8. OUCH!
80 x 6! (3)
WOW, ow... these were tougher than ever. I dont know why but these 3 sets of hypers were the hardest 3 sets I have ever done, EVER. Maybe because I had just pulled 6 plates, I dont know. I was exhausted and my lower back has never ached so bad before.
Seated Calf Raises:
6 Plates + 20 lbs. x 12! (4), 4 Plates x 30
Awesome sets of calf raises!! Need to get my puny calves growing, sick of them being so sh*tty. Used six 45s and then two 10s. Nice sets today. Calves took a hell of a beating, dropped down to 4 plates for 30 to finish them off completely.
Stack x 5 (2), 200 x 10
Not too much to say here I dont think, some pretty good sets of machine crunches. Really slowed up my negative part of each rep to feel it a ton in my midsection. Abs were exhausted from these 3 sets.
Training Length: 60 minutes
Sleep: 8 hours
Weight: 223 lbs. (gym)
Pain/Soreness: Eh, not too sore today. Honestly, my hips and glutes were a LITTLE stiff, nothing too bad though.
- General Comments
Been putting a lot of thought into my what I am going to do. I have decided that around mid-summer, I am going to do a meet. I am not sure just yet when or what meet, most likely mid-July or sometime around then. However, I am ONLY going to do deadlift during this first meet. I am hoping that by then Ill be pulling in the 625 or so area. I think that I have a lot of potential in deadlift, especially after tonight and all talking to the hardcore powerlifters from my gym. Bench I am still going an inch off my chest without a pause, and squat I am not POSITIVE that I am going as deep as some meets require. So just deadlift at this point for me.
By the way, I am going to shoot for the 220 lbs. class, I do NOT want to be in the 242s. Hopefully Ill be okay. I usually hover between 218-224 so well see what happens.
Last edited by MonStar; 04-15-2003 at 07:24 PM.
good job on the deadlift man!!!!
AWSOME job man! 6 plates is fookin hyuuuge keep the great work bro!
-LONGER TERM GOALS-
military press: 160x1
you are only 115 lbs away from 700.
Were you not at 565 only a week ago? Good luck with 605, im sure you'll be there in no time at all.
Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"
Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."
BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"
sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"
Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."
pagan: Hey thanks for the support man, I really appreciate it. I was extremely pleased with 6 plates. Talk about being pumped up, haha. Thanks again for the post.
shredder: Thanks for the support man.
Alex: Yeah, I never really thought about it that way. I know now that I am 65 lbs. away from 650, which is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. I think that genetically I really favor deadlift out of the 3 main lifts. I never realized it either until I started Westside. But I feel like 605 is going to be no problem at all. At least after how 585 went tonight. 585 somehow felt just as easy as 565 did. But over a month ago 555 felt like a MILLION pounds, lol.
RG: Yeah man, one week ago today I hit 565, which was a 10 lbs. PB. Tonight I hit 585, which was a 20 lbs. PB. These spurts of strength are really great mentally. I feel like my deadlift is just going to shoot up over the next few months. The biggest deadlifter at my gym pulls 700, and thats Chris Morris. Guy is honestly built to deadlift. I would love to get up with him eventually. Maybe Ill be closing in on the 700 range by the end of 2003, hey---anything is possible!
Last edited by MonStar; 04-15-2003 at 09:27 PM.
In response to your PM, this would be my advice.
Eat heavy and lift hard. If you don't plan to compete for awhile, you can afford to up your weight for a while to provide extra fuel, and then level it off as the meet nears. It's really about volume control, and I'd be happy to help out.
Saturday Fever: Okay great man. Thats exactly what I am going to be doing. Eating heavy and lifting hard. That sums it up perfectly. As you have already gone through the entire training for the meet thing, I am hoping that youll offer me as much advice as you can. In terms of volume, etc. I am going to keep my DE sessions a bit lighter, and shy of failure. Rather than to failure like I was doing the my last time on Westside. I think that competing at the 220 weight class should allow me to place pretty well in deadlift. I would LOVE to hit a triple BW deadlift at the meet. 660 is friggin' INSANE, and 75 lbs. more than what I pulled tonight. But the way that 585 flew up, I am raising my goals!
The cookie company - and you can order online:
Are the nutritional facts for one cookie, Mike? I lists two servings on the web site.