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  1. #1
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Geoff's progress pages

    In case anyone is looking for it, I moved all the information I had on here to a new journal and will be using this one just for my progress.

    Here is the other journal of information:http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...217#post825217


    I'm not gonna post here every day.

    When I change workouts (every 5-12 weeks) I'll put up my workout spreadsheet w/ the weights I've done and I'll include the highlights from the workout and diet.
    _______________________________________________
    Just completed a 6 week WBB routine #1

    I am fortunate to have a lifting partne (Dave Chavez) and workout at Gibson's Gym in Washington, New Jersey

    I currently don't monitor my diet
    I take no supplements besides a post workout protein shake.
    _______________________________________________
    Attached pics are from May of 02. Weight approx 170lbs no idea on bf I think I was calipered at about 8%ish
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Just completed my first HST routine.

    Here are my highlights from the first two segments (15/10)
    OH DB Press 2x15/10 = 65/80lbs
    weighted Pullups 2x15/10 = 35/70lbs
    Preacher curls 2x15/10 = 65/80lbs
    Incline DB Press 2x15/10 = 80/100lbs

    My HST advice:
    1. Stick with the same movements for every workout
    2. Dont do a movement that you won't have enough weight to complete in your gym, ex: shrugs with db's
    3. Don't change routine at any point, if you wanna do another movement then wait 6 weeks till your next HST cycle to change
    4. Don't be intimidated your first few days of 15 when its harder than you though, it will get easier
    5. Push yourself to fail on the final days (meaning dont hit the full # of reps)
    6. Go up in weight every week... do this by predicting in advance your weight trajectory, its easy to guess as you go and run afoul
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Super Mastah Mod rookiebldr's Avatar
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    I guess you were right about the once a month thing. I'll check in again in about a month to see the progress.

    Me /pwn1ng by Xian Rookie's journal Rookie's Picture Thread

    Damn right you will be! We don't mess around down here. Liquor and Steel, that's what we're all about -Casey

    ROFL, oh man - I usually wait until I'm on the freeway to do that. What an idiot! -teufy doing what he does best.

    You aren't strong enough or pretty enough to train in the evenings with us...better stick to noon workouts with the rest of the geriatrics. - pup

    Yeah. I'm a dork. - Teufy

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  4. #4
    the stone cold stunner Ironman8's Avatar
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    Good luck Geoff!
    You kill me in a dream, you better wake up and apologize....

  5. #5
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Moved to King of Prussia PA
    Working out at Golds Gym, its 76k sq feet....huge right?

    kust completed 9 week workout (WBB #1 slightly modified)

    Weight steady at 180

    Highlights:
    HS OH Press 105@10x2 (per side)
    HS Bench 320@10x2 (per side)
    Smith mach. Squats 250@10x3
    Pullups, 0 weight 20x2
    Dips 20x2

    Have been taking AM/PM/Post workout proteins from proteinfactory.com they taste like crap but I'm doing great on em!!! Also am taking glutamine with questionable results.

    Have begun tracking my diet on DietOrganizer
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    This is my second round of HST

    I dont think I did a good job projecting for this as I'm at a new gym and the weights are all just a little different from the last gym I worked out at, plus I'm doing different moves than I'm used to doing.

    major 15/10/5 actuals:
    HS Bench 300/360/430
    Deadlifts 200/245/310
    DB Shrugs 85/105/115
    Squats 205/245/285
    HS OH Press 90/112/145 (per side)
    Hanging Knee Raises 30/35/40
    preacher curls 75/90/120
    (HS= hammer strength machines)
    _____________________________

    I'm pumped!
    Today I finished my 2nd segment of HST (10's) and have been looking over the results of my first HST run about 5 months back, and also comparing my lifts today with my lifts from a month ago when I finished up my wbb #1 routine

    in the 5 weeks since wbb#1 ended:
    up 40lbs in bench (12.5%)
    up 7lbs in OH press (7%)
    up 10lbs in preacher curl (12.5%)
    I'm psyched!

    Also today at the gym I was cranking out a super tough set on the lat raise machine I was pumped after a pr on the OH press and I know my back is pretty ripped up, I was in a tank top and 2 guys walked behind me and their conversation went something like this:
    guy1) just when I think I've done something with my body ya go and see something like this guy and makes me feel like shlt
    guy2) yeah, thats called seperation, striation and vascularity...you could be there in a few years, or if you popped some pills....

    I know they were talking about me cuz the gym was empty and they were sitting right next to me when I finished up.

    Being a person that doesn't have a significant other or anyone in my life that appreciates the work I do in the gym, its nice to hear random comments from time to time...
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 10-27-2003 at 06:38 PM.

  7. #7
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    I personally am a steroid user but I thoroughly encourage people to have their own opinions about them. So next time you overhear someone saying you are on steroids because you are so big, ripped , vascular blah blah blah... Then take it as a compliment. It is only through ignorance that people beleive only steroids will make you big. So indirectly them guys were paying you a compliment and at the end of the day they are only jelous.
    "Not sure if I want the expense of a girlfriend as id rather spend the money on sus"

  8. #8
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Here is my most recently completed workout results (The HST from 1 post above)

    I dont think I'll do another round of 15/10/5 for HST.
    By the time I'm at the second week of 5's my joints are killing me, and I'm just not used to working with such heavy weights.
    also I have a hard time keeping good form when I go below 8 reps on a set.
    In future I think I will try
    10/15/20

    bulking now
    starting weight is 184
    goal is 200 by jan/feb
    avg daily calories ~3100; prot ~200
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  9. #9
    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    Good work, Geoff! For some reason, I really love HST, even the 15's.

    For my next bulk, I'm going to use a really low-volume version with no isolation work for arms, and see how well that works.
    Last edited by Scott S; 10-27-2003 at 07:47 PM.

  10. #10
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    good luck geoff

  11. #11
    Super Mastah Mod rookiebldr's Avatar
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    Nice progress. See you next month.

    Me /pwn1ng by Xian Rookie's journal Rookie's Picture Thread

    Damn right you will be! We don't mess around down here. Liquor and Steel, that's what we're all about -Casey

    ROFL, oh man - I usually wait until I'm on the freeway to do that. What an idiot! -teufy doing what he does best.

    You aren't strong enough or pretty enough to train in the evenings with us...better stick to noon workouts with the rest of the geriatrics. - pup

    Yeah. I'm a dork. - Teufy

    Better yet, "why should anyone's interpretation of divinity govern modern society?" - Twilo

  12. #12
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Just clipped off some pics tonight with my web cam...
    I used the lighting to my advantage for shadows and stuff, which make my back appear larger or more defined than it actually is.
    I edited my first post (way above this!) and added an older pic from may 2002 to use as a reference. That was roughly 15 pounds lighter than I am now, and probably 5lbs less bf

    27 years old
    5'10 @ 187lbs
    16.5" flexed biceps
    12.5" forearms
    44" chest
    54" around shoulders (if thats even a measurement!)
    33" waist

    Also attached is the routine I'm using currently (its an xls file so change the extension)
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  13. #13
    Wannabebig Member
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    You have a great back. Just a little jealous!!!

  14. #14
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    Damn, you do have a nice back. Delts don't look too shabby either.
    Last edited by BigChaseyChase; 11-13-2003 at 10:30 PM.
    "As far as drugs were concerned, all my bodybuilding heroes were on everything but roller skates."


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  15. #15
    Away BigMatt's Avatar
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    how tall are you?

  16. #16
    Away BigMatt's Avatar
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    same here bro i need more weight at near 6ft at 190 i dont look so big.. How old are you btw?

  17. #17
    Wannabebig Member TrAeR's Avatar
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    Hey Geoff,

    I'm new to these boards and I gotta say of all of the threads I have perused, this is arguably the most useful one I've come across.

    Good diet/supplement info. I'm on my 5th cycle of HST as we speak--very very effective method of training. I've never tried any of the WBB routines but I've heard good things.

  18. #18
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    how long did it take you get to that way ?
    Few years ?

  19. #19
    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    Man, you look really good, and you only dead lift 300? Lucky man!

    D 435 / S 340 / B 305

    Journal

    "I avoid talking to normal people about this stuff as much as possible. It's usually a waste of time." - HahnB

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  20. #20
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    I know those pics are kinda old, but you've got some serious shoulder vascularity going on there.
    Age:30
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: Not Big Enough
    ______________________

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  21. #21
    Teh kleptomaniac VasDeferens's Avatar
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    great information.

    I just bookmarked this journal.
    Last edited by budlight; 04-08-2004 at 02:16 PM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Beast apparently I've been using incorrect form this whole time for my dead lifts...so now I doubt I can even do 300!

    SP ya its time to get up some new pics! I've put on about 30lbs in my bulk since those last pics! I'm hovering in the 205-215 range now.

    Raven I'm 28 (as of 5/27/04) and have always been an active kid.
    3 sports every year in HS, d1 college sprinter, and have been actively trying to gain weight/muscle since I was in 7th grade (about 13 years old).
    I've had gym memberships since I turned 17, although I tend to be one of those 6 months in the gym, 3 months off typa people so my gains haven't been that great. Plus its only recently that I've learned about diet and how to make a good workout.

    bud glad ya like!
    I have an abundance of free time to spend on google, so I kinda get a kick outta looking up info and figured it was about time I saved it all somewhere, because I sure can't remember it all!

    Notable events:
    • hit bulking goal of 215 on 4/04 (up about 30 pounds from 8/03)
      Unfortunately not as much muscle as I'd hoped
    • did a colon cleaner system about a month back. I think it went well and I think it was beneficial. Immdiately following it I started to pack on the pounds, diet + exercise remained the same but I just popped up in weight!
    • attached is my latest complete workout spreadsheets...its an xls file, so change the extension
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-11-2009 at 03:47 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    preface to Avant Labs- AbSolve/Lipoderm Ultra/capsaicin/Nicotine
    at 27 (28 later this month) I've done my share of cuts and I understand whats avg for my body, so my goal with this is to see what/if any, impact abSolve/lipoUltra have.

    (in case people are wondering why the cap and nicotine u can read all about it here and here is a thread on the Avant Labs Forums that goes into a little more detail)

    Phase 1:
    use .1% capsaicin cream for 1 week to build it up in tissue

    put on gloves...this stuff is NOT water soluable meaning it doesn't wash off...so if you use your fingers, then touch your face 9 hours later, WHAMO!!!!
    if the heat becomes unbearable they say you should soak the area in pure alcohol which will remove surface deposits...(heheh but your f'ed with the stuff in your tissue!!! where it builds up and makes the furnace glow!)

    Phase 2:
    add ab-solve for 1 month (till bottle runs out)

    Phase 3:
    add lipoderm ultra + nicotine patches (undecided on # + mg) for 1 month (till bottle runs out) at which point I'll reevaluate the situation.

    This is a link to the type of cap that I'm using:
    http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...71&id=prod4567

    Week 1: capsaicin
    5/6
    • 10PM: showered, and shaved application area, applied cap (1" length unless otherwise noted) to dry clean skin (under pec - below belly button, around side of obliques)...mild warming sensation

    5/7 -start Thermocin 3 pills today
    • 9AM: after 5 minutes in shower notice warm sensation in stomach, slight pain when area hit by water...subsided after shower
    • 9:30AM: applied cap (warm feeling in stomach throughout day)
    • 7PM: during/after workout...sweating opens the pores and has a dramatic effect...have gone beyond warming at this point...at the threshold of being uncomfortable/mild pain...imagine the worst sunburn of your life...thats the feeling...just a raw, smoldering under the skin...am NOT looking forward to a shower *LOL* and on the ride home I remembered something horrific, in all the readings I've done on this topic they say that night time is the worst after 8+ days because of sweating....I'm on the east coast, which means high humidity..I live in an apt with a small wall AC unit that doesn't even cool my br....last summer was a sweat fest, which I kinda like the feeling off....but 2-3 months of this (may-july) is downright petrifying.
      I wonder what impact swimming/jacuzzi/sauna/etc have on this stuff...
    • 8:45PM: I"ve put off showering till now...I don't think I'll even bother turning on the hot water...all that worry for nothing!
      I jumped in and jumped out and made sure there was no steam! under 5 min shower! whew no pain!!!
      no PM coat...had car problems which messed up my schedule
      after shower all heat/tingling pain seems to have abated...


    5/8 4 thermocin
    no AM coat, still dealing with car...
    no feeling of heat at all, perfectly comfortable/normal today (so far)
    possibly an early eve coat...need to go get plastic gloves!!!
    • 5:30PM: picked up a "suds and sponge" brush, basically a yellow sponge with a clear plastic handle attached...will apply a cover of plastic wrap to the sponge and use it for my applications. (cheaper + more environment friendly than 2 plastic gloves per day!) applied a coat of cap at this time. no warmth/heat
    • 2AM: applied second coat for the day before bed...no heat/nada


    5/9 4 thermocin
    • 2PM: applied morning coat 30 minutes after shower...no heat/warmth
    • 4PM: went out to the mall, humid day...within 4 minutes of being outside in the humidity I could feel my pores opening up and the heat/discomfort begin. Going into a cooled environment took about 45 minutes for the warmth sensation to go away.
    • 2AM: applied a coat, then passed out...no heat


    5/10 5 thermocin (feel no "speed" effect)
    • 9AM: after 5 minutes in shower heat comes on, nice warmth,45 minutes later applied cap. No heat/discomfort all day at work
    • 6PM: left work, 75degree weather, tons of humidity, within 5 minutes I felt the throbbing....now that I'm home, baking in my 82degree apartment without my shirt on I see that my skin is red from irritation...I assume this is the norm and only the tip of the iceberg as far as the pain goe, irritation/pain went away after 30 minutes as my internal thermometer adjusted to the warmer air.
    • 1AM: second application of the day, then passed out...mild/bad sunburn sensation lasted for 30 minutes, pointed fan towards my exposed skin and fell asleep


    5/11 will continue w/ 6 thermocin (no boost of anything taking them 3 at a time) until otherwise noted
    • 9AM: shower, no heat problems followed by cap application 30 minutes later...typical short term warming sensation. Getting excited for adding the absolved in 2 days!
    • 10PM: showered, shaved application area, 20 minutes later second application of the day, then passed out...mild/bad sunburn sensation lasted for 30 minutes, pointed fan towards my exposed skin and fell asleep


    5/12
    • 9AM: applied within 10 minutes of getting out of shower, pores must still have been open...the heat is on...pain is more intense than on day 1, this is kinda like the worst sunburn you ever imagined plus the sting of someone giving you a solid slap on it then hold that pain level for the next few hours.
      Walking seems to slightly lessen the pain, possibly for taking my mind off it.
      1AM: 2nd application...low heat (15 minutes


    5/13
    After realizing I was scammed on ebay for a Tanita 300a (filed a fraud complaint with ebay so I should get about 80% of my $$ back) I've gone out and snagged a new version of the UM026, which offers just about all the same features. I was planning on waiting to start my entire cut till I get the scale...but I'm dying to get started with the absolved, so today I'll start tomorrow...
    • 9AM: low heat (15 minutes)
    • 1AM: 2nd application...low heat (15 minutes)
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 08-06-2004 at 01:59 PM.

  24. #24
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Ab-Solved + capsaicin
    I'd like to note that the heat is up there here on the east coast.
    Avg daily temp is 82-86 IN MY APARTMENT at any time of day.
    Humidity is about 60-80%...and I work in an AC environment so my body does have to adjust, which is usually 5-10 minutes of warm/tingly feel from the capsaicin.

    5/14 Day 1
    • 10AM: low heat (15 minutes)
    • 1PM: AbSolved 4 pumps (1 on each oblique, 1 above, 1 below bellybutton) Was expecting a gel, but what came out of the bottle was a liquid with some white particles in it...my first shirt shot across the room, so be careful how hard you press down on the lever. It has a slight citrus oder. Not all that unpleasant. No unplesant feeling at all....
    • 11PM: planned Cap+absolved application


    From here out I'll just post changes in Thermocin/Cap/Absolved dosages + any obvious results (pain/heat, tightening of skin, nausea, reduction in fat, etc...)
    First 7 days
    • 5/15-16: same ol same ol
    • 5/17: back to the gym after a 1 week hiatus....no heat while working out....jumped up to 8 Thermocin and applied a third batch of 4 squirts 1 hour after my 11PM coat of Absolved (12 squirts per day total till I say otherwise). Can report that there is some balling (white lumps) in the solution when I use my applicator. Apparently this is somewhat normal.
    • 5/18: haven't been feeling any heat lately at all, so tonight I exfoliated with one of those creams with the sand in it, then applied the cap within a minute of stepping out of shower...there was a ton of heat after applying the cap. I actually took a window fan down and put it directly on my abs, then took 3 Tylenol PM's to knock me out...pain went away within 25 minutes. I'm thinking this is the pain that would be associated with a 2nd degree burn. It was at the point where I kinda wanted to get in the shower again to see what I could do to get it to stop hurting, but I was PETRIFIED that any of the cream would drip/run lower down my body. I think if one gram got on my junk it would probably be insane pain. As a note, always wear boxers/underwear to bed with this stuff...the last thing you want is to roll over and have jimmy touch anywhere near skin covered in Cap. I've made this mistake twice already, its intensely uncomfortable.
    • 5/19: tanita bf scale arrived, which is good so I can finally start tracking things! No more heat problems! yay
    • 5/20: last day on Thermocin, will take 2 week rest period.


    5/20--6/1 (Used whole bottle in 19 days)
    • stopped taking the cap around the 20th or so, just fell outta the routine
    • finished the bottle of ab-solved on 6/1 was using roughly 12-18 squirts per day for the final week, AM application was about 6 squirts, then when I got home from work (about 8 hours later) would apply another 6 squirts then before bed would apply another 6 squirts
    • the final 3-5 days of applications I noticed that the ab-solved was really starting to irritate my skin, to the point where I have red marks/lines (like worms/spider webs) covering obliques which must be more sensitive skin. I am not sure if it was because my skin was becoming more sensitive, or more likely that the bottle had expelled more water than solution over the first few weeks? and now it was a more concentrated solution? At any rate, the lines are blood red and could easily be mistaken for stretch marks...needless to say this has me slightly worried as to if they are burst or collapsed blood vessels and how soon they are going away! I'm not going to put anything else on my skin until these go away. Avant Labs has confirmed that this is the result of skin irritation from the product and to lay off for a week, that this is a typical reaction after 3 weeks using the product. (it ended up taking about 3-4 weeks for these marks to go away)
    • I am on schedule with my diet, losing about .5-.75 lb per week (from about 204 down to about 200 now), the reduction in body fat along my abdominal is noticeable and I attribute it to the absolved, I think it has made a small difference.


    Review:I started at around 204, and at the end of my cycle I was at about 201 lbs. My bf was probably in the 14-16% range when I started and I might have lost 1-2% through the course of the application.

    Its fairly difficult to gauge how effective the product was as I did lose weight and bf anyway. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being great) I'd give the product a 2 or 3.

    It wasn't worth the 35$ for me. However I have 2 more bottles and plan to use them during later cuts.
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 10-04-2004 at 01:29 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Lipoderm Ultra (LU) + capsaicin (cap) + Nicotine Patches (NP)
    (also, taking 3-6 thermocin caps per day from 6/2-6/16
    • 6/4 - applied cap + 4 squirts LU and cut Habitrol 14mg NP in 1/4s and applied two of the pieces an inch to each side of my belly button.
      The LU is a brown juice like dirty dish/toilet water. It applied cleanly without leaving any obvious residue like abSolved had. Mild tingling in the area lasted about 3 hours.
    • 6/6 - upped each dose of LU to 5 squirts per application (AM/PM), 3 covering the abdominal area now.
      I am seeing the effects of the AbSolved much more clearly now.
      I can now identify that I have a ton of subcutaneous fat over the muscle, and I'm eager to see what happens once I shed it and the results of both lotions becomes more apparent.
    • 6/8 - the habitrol patches are a joke, getting them to stick to my skin is nearly impossible, not sure if its because I'm applying them to soon after applying the lotions so they can't adhere to the skin, or perhaps the fact that I've cut them (and most of the sticky is around the borders).
      Went to the company store here and picked up a box of 14 NP Nicoderm CQ 7mg patches (23$). I applied a full one to the same area as I have been applying the habitrols and noticed that this patch also has a hard time adhering. I have been shaving this area to ensure all the creams get directly on the skin and not goat any hairs, so my stomach is fairly smooth...with mm length hair growth, guess I need to keep up with the shaving of this area to ensure these patches stick.
      Weight loss is still on target with my gradual decline. I will post numbers later tonight which I've been tracking now for roughly 3-4 weeks.
    • 6/11 - its obvious to be now that it wasn't the habitrol patches, but the fact that the cap and LU leave a residue on my skin that seems to last for hours. I have been ATTEMPTING to stick the NP to my skin after 2 hours with little luck...they inevitably fall off after about 1 second, with the adhesive covered in oils that prevent them from every sticking to anything again.
      I've found that some of the residue/oil comes off on my clothing, making the patches easier to adhere near my waist line, unfortunatly from what I've read the benefit of the patches is extremely localized (within an inch or two I gathered)
      Also of note, I've figured out how to make dualing y axes on my excel spreadsheets where I plot my weight/bodyfat (AM, midday, PM) I know my scaling habits seem a bit freakish, but I'm a fan of data, the more the better.
      I can see trends now that are caused by alcohol intake which affect my hydration levels and thus I assume throw off bodyfat levels.
      In any event, I'll be putting up a colorful graph of my weekly averages once I have 5-6 weeks of them to show...
      In the mirror my abs are starting to show through...my obliques are always well hidden, and for some reason my serratus tend to be the focal point of my mid torso region...I worked them way to hard back in 98-01 time frame.
      Cap related heat is a non issue...with the occassional flare up for 15 minutes if I apply to closely after a shower (<3minutes), if I shave the area (leaving small tearing in the epidermis I assume that causes the pain), or if I exfoliate the area. Combining the three (<3 min shower application/shave/exfoliate) is a recipe for a volcano like feeling on ur skin.
      Also of note...I'm now applying 10 squirts per day (5/5)
      Also, wearing some type of shorts/pants/underwear at all times (especially sleeping) is very strongly advised, especially while sleeping. The 7AM testosterone response has been a natural wakeup call for me way to many times already...and a feeling of acid being poured over your genitals isn't a fun way to wake up
    • 6/16 - signed up for a cruise outta Miami that leaves 7/1 and comes back on 7/5 so I've sped up my diet plan slightly
      Also have bumped up the dosages of lipoderm from 10 squirts to the fully 18 per day.
      1 per oblique, 3 above belly button, 3 below on a 2x per day schedule.
      I haven't been doing any refeeds or anything like that. My abs are becoming visible although still not at a point where anybody would accuse me of having abs although my serratus are coming through nicely and some stunod might mistake them for abs. I still have about 8-12 lbs of weight to drop to get that effect as I'm probably around 12% bf (weighing in around 199ish)
      I'm starting to realize 3 things
      1) rather than doing a large bulk and a large cut I'd probably be better off doing 2 of each throughout the year, so there is less fat to shed and so it doesn't take as long to shed it.
      2) cutting is so much easier than bulking
      3) I had no business taking the absolved/lipoderm at such high bf levels (12-16%) The more I've been reading on the Avant forums the more it appears that this stuff is geared for people under 10% at least...ideally under 8%
      I plan on maintaining the 25/2400 levels until I stop losing weight or 8/15, whichever comes first.
    • 6/23 - Things are coming along well...haven't been consistant with the capsacin mostly because I'm lazy and wake up to late to wait for it to dry before i go to work! but have been regular with the NP and LO. My bottle is nearly ending so I'll be taking a break from this stuff in a few days (maybe 2-3) I wont start back up on this stuff until mid july-early august by which time I hope to be about 5-6 pounds lighter and at a better body weight for the LO to have an impact. I've been reading up on Sesathin and Leptigen Basic and have convinced myself that they are worthy of an investment. While maintaining my diet levels I'll add them in and will be able to track any impact in weight changes, but bf% will have to be eyeballed since the Tanita scale I'm using has given me the same reading for the past 6 weeks, I got my mom to get on it over the weekend and she got the same reading, so I KNOW she isn't 17% bf *LOL* I was hoping to use it to track incremental changes in my bf but it doesn't seem to be working as well as it does in theory...might be a bum unit.
    • 6/26 - Skin irritation similar to from the AbSolved product is beginning to show, so I've discontinued use just as I've finished the bottle.


    Review: When I started using this product I was around 200.5 and by the time I finished I was about x. My bf might have gone down about 1-2% and I'm probably in the 10-11% range at the completion.
    Overall the difference from the product has been very minor. It wasn't until after I started using the product that I read on Avants forums that this product should be used at very low bf's, under 8% ideally. They SUCK for documenting/informing customers on their products, and their support and sales stuff is seriously lacking also, i've had way to many problems placing orders, both online and by phone, to bother dealing with this company again.
    I have 2 more bottles of this stuff which I'll use eventually and make another report when my bf is under 8%.
    On a scale of 1-10 I'd give this product a 2. Based on the Avant suggestion and how effective they claim the cap + nicotine is, I should give Lipo-Ultra a 1, since a portion of the benefit came from the other things!
    It wasn't worth 35$ for me.
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 07-22-2004 at 10:45 AM.

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