The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    flexed or unflexed?

    just a simple question,

    i see everyone has stats about there lifts and how big this and that is.

    do they mean flexed or unflexed.

    i just read a post about if arms are less than 15" then u should not train them directly, does that 15" mean flexed or unflexed.

    thats it.
    never really measured mine. is 15" suppposed to be small or something?
    also where do u put the tape, which part of the bi, in the middle?
    kind of confused.

    also doesnt the circumference of your arm entail both the tricep and the bicep. say your tricep is massive but your bi isnt , does that mean u should only train tris directly?

    whats the deal.

    thanks.

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  3. #2
    II MrWebb78's Avatar
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    when i measure i flex, but with a cold muscle(not right after a workout where it will add maybe another half inch)
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. - Edward Abbey

    There is a wide difference between speaking to deceive, and being silent to be impenetrable. - Voltaire

    If it can be imagined, it can be done. - Me

    6'2"
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  4. #3
    Ecoli die
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    where did you hear not to train your arms directly if they are less than 15"? That would mean that half of all women shouldn't train arms directly.

    Measurements are taken cold flexed. Biceps are measured at the peak of the biceps on the right arm.
    Now in pain, only working out the walking sticks.

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member
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    thnks dude.
    some guy posted it in a previoius thread.

  6. #5
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    I measure everything flexed and unflexed and chart it on my spreadsheets after every 6-12 week routine

  7. #6
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    If you`re arms measurev 13 should you not train them?this is the dumbest thing I`ve ever heard.I think you should`nt train them until they are at least 19 inches.Give me a break!What sage offered this advice?

  8. #7
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    Gavan has posted a study done in experienced lifters that showed no significant differences between a group that did compounds and direct arm work and another one that did only compounds.
    Last edited by restless; 05-02-2003 at 12:48 PM.

  9. #8
    3:16
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    i looked at his last 3 post in the trianing forum and could not see the article you were on about from gavan
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    each muscles is measured unflexed EXCEPT upper arms.

    15'' arms can be BIG (especially if unflexed) or very small it depends of your height and bodyfat and to a lesser degree your bone structure.

    I remember I posted a study about direct arms work I'll try to refound it. But that just one study... I still do my barbell curl and triceps extension !
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  11. #10
    Banned
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    I think the 15" guideline was based around the idea that if your arm is smaller than 15", you're not big enough to need to worry about isolation exercises for small muscles/groups (bis & tris)

    which makes sense, to a certain extent

  12. #11
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    I believe it was posted in the HST forum. I'll have a look.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    oh yes that's possible I don't remember !

    PS Gavan = Sharivan for people who are also on HST board.
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  14. #13
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    "The Effect of Supplemental Isolated Weight-Training Exercises on
    Upper-Arm Size and Upper-Body Strength
    RA Rogers, RU Newton, KP McEvoy, EM Popper, BK Doan, JK Shim, LR Bolt, JSVolek, and WJ Kraemer.
    Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(3)3, Aug 2000 (p369)
    The aim of this study was to examine the hypothesized additional
    training effect of programming isolated supplemental exercises in
    conjunction with compound weight-training exercises on muscle size and strength. Seventeen national-level baseball players volunteered to participate in this 10-week training study and were randomly divided into 2 groups. The control group completed a 10-week training program consisting of the bench press, lat pull-down, dumbbell incline press and dumbbell 1-arm row exercises. The treatment group completed the same training program but with the addition of biceps curl and triceps extension exercises. A tape measure was used to record upper-arm circumferences, and a 5 repetition maximum (5RM) was determined on the bench press and lat pull-down for each subject before and after training.
    Both the treatment and control groups displayed significant increases in upper-arm circumference (6.6 and 6.5%, respectively), 5RM bench press (21.4 and 22.1%, respectively) and 5RM lat pull-down (15.7 and 14.5%, respectively). There were no significant differences between the groups in the percentage change before and after training. The findings of this study suggest that isolation exercises are not necessary in order to increase compound movement strength or increase upper-arm girth. These findings also suggest that strength coaches can save time by not including isolation exercises and still achieve increases in strength and size."

  15. #14
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    Actually it doesn't say thy were experienced lifters but I suppose baseball players do workout, not sure though. It's just one more thing to take in consideration.

  16. #15
    3:16
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    with out seeing the rest of the study, its quite hard to judge how effective it was.

    In the summary there is missed off parts such as
    1) total volume of both groups?
    2) diet
    3) frequency and intensity of trianing.

    however saying that, they may have had a good routine in other respects as well. just without seeing parts like that, to hard to judge the importance of the result.s
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  17. #16
    One crazy MOFO/Mail man
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    Makes sense though. I wouldn't eliminate direct arm workouts though But I would severly limit the volume used to train your bi's and tri's. So far so good, my arms have grown much more then when I trained them directly. I think the idea behind this is when your arms are small you will be overloading them already because your compounds will require alot of your arms. More so then when you can curl 185lb. So to keep from overtraining your arms, concentrating on your compounds. Sound advice, but I don't know if I would go as far as to eliminate all DIRECT arm work.
    w00t

  18. #17
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    Originally posted by body
    with out seeing the rest of the study, its quite hard to judge how effective it was.

    In the summary there is missed off parts such as
    1) total volume of both groups?
    2) diet
    3) frequency and intensity of trianing.

    however saying that, they may have had a good routine in other respects as well. just without seeing parts like that, to hard to judge the importance of the result.s
    I think it's safe to assume they used equal volume. They said the second group used the SAME routine plus isolation work for their arms.

    I also do some arm work, but a lot of times I skip it. In the end I might only do one or two sets per week as I'd rather waste my exercise tolerance in rows, pull ups, benches and dips.

  19. #18
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    Do you guy`s think Arnold would still have had the same arm development if he did no direct arm work?Or Skip Lacour for you guy`s who will say Arnold was on the juice.personally I like to do my arms I think you should do every body part.As far as this study goes just because they did it doesn`t make it the thing to do.Follow no one learn how to train for your own needs.

  20. #19
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    As far as I'm concerned Skip Lacour is as natural as a 6 legged cow born in Chernobil.
    Last edited by restless; 05-02-2003 at 05:29 PM.

  21. #20
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Does this mean my arms are cool? They're 15!!!

  22. #21
    Senior Member
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    As long as you`re cool with it,it`s OK.I agree about Skip I was just trying to avoid being flamed about the Arnold analogy.I am just saying if you`re a bodybuilder you should try to build the body ,not just parts of it.Benches and squats affect the arms indirectly but not enough after a point in time.

  23. #22
    Gen_chat worst nightmare
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    Originally posted by tjwes
    .I agree about Skip I was just trying to avoid being flamed about the Arnold analogy.I am just saying if you`re a bodybuilder you should try to build the body ,not just parts of it.Benches and squats affect the arms indirectly but not enough after a point in time.

    Ok.

    But anyway, there are quite a few people around here that don't train arms and they usually have no problems if their back and chest training are in check.

  24. #23
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Originally posted by Gavan
    each muscles is measured unflexed EXCEPT upper arms.


    Forearms are also measured flexed.

  25. #24
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    As far as indirect training goes (back and chest) I noticed my arms got bigger when I did NO direct work for them. Now and again I will throw in a few sets, but most of my workouts do not include any direct arm work.

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