The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    WTF is up with my Bench?

    ok..this is my annual whine-about-my-weakass-bench thread.


    here's the deal:


    My Flyes are at 60 lbs for 7 reps

    My Tricep Presses are prolly around 60 (maybe more) for 10 - i can do 45 for 20

    Why then is my bench only 70lbs for 6?


    where is the weakness?
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

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  3. #2
    A$$hole detector RoidRage's Avatar
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    shoulders?

  4. #3
    Simplistic
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    Why are your flyes higher than your bench?

  5. #4
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    You can do flyes with 30 pound dumbells for 7, and you can bench 35 pound dumbells for 6?

    Or is this your barbell bench?

    Explain what you mean by 'tricep presses' - i fthis a French press, close grip, over head extension, or something else? Barbell or dumbell?
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  6. #5
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Re: WTF is up with my Bench?

    Originally posted by Tryska
    where is the weakness?
    Your bench.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  7. #6
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    in your mind................feel the force flowing
    Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal.These things are for lesser men.Protect the weak against the evil strong.And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil."

    live by the code

  8. #7
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Are you sure your weight on flyes is correct? Most guys of average size and greater barely use that weight with anything near proper form. Or is it a machine you speak of?

    Explain your exercises better assface.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  9. #8
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    Are you sure your weight on flyes is correct? Most guys of average size and greater barely use that weight with anything near proper form. Or is it a machine you speak of?

    Explain your exercises better assface.
    :withstupi


    If you are doing that much weight on flyes you're almost doing twice what I'm doing.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  10. #9
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i'm sorry - I use pecdec - but with dumbbells my flyes would be 30 lbs a piece.

    and my bench is with a barbell.

    tricep press is using the universal machine with the short bar - like so - http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BPushdown.html

    except i don't bring my arms all te way up. just to parallel.

    shoulders is 50 lbs (2 25s) on a hammer strength shoulder press.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  11. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    If you can do flyes with 30's, your bench should be much higher, and you rchest certainly isn't your weak point.

    I'd say shoulders and triceps are the weakness.

    Where is your sticking point on the bench?
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  12. #11
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure its wholly a mechanical weakness, at least not in the sense of any one body part being a weak point.

    I've been noting this a lot with females lately.....the component muscles are relatively strong, but the bench itself seems to stagnate.

    I really think adding in some heavy, heavy work for 1-3 reps would be a big help.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  13. #12
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tryska
    i'm sorry - I use pecdec - but with dumbbells my flyes would be 30 lbs a piece.
    70lbs on a pec dec != 30lb dbs on flyes, if that's what you are saying. I use 40lbs dbs and that isn't exactly light, and I'll stick my neck out and say I'm a tad stronger than you, so I'm still confused on your exercise descriptions. Unless you mean you'd use the 15lb dbs, which is still decent, but believable.

    But in any event, to answer your question, you are comparing weights that are not even close in relation to each other. The triceps are on a pulley system, you are not experiencing 60lbs of resistance, you are lifting 60lbs of a weight stack via a cable fed through a pulley, or more likely a double pulley, which is a WAY different way to measure things entirely.

    Also, using a press machine, means that you can put 100% of your effort into the lift, pushing at all kinds of weird angles to help get the weight up, since you have no risk of losing balance or anything, as the weight is travelling up in a fixed plane.

    All this is the exact opposite when you apply it to a barbell bench. You are the only one lifting the weight, and you are lifting all of it, no pulley helping you out. So those are probably the reason. When lifting on machines with weight stacks, I would never use the weights listed as anything other than a reference to measure progression on *that* machine, and *that* machine only, as it has very little correlation to other machines or freeweight exercises.

    Hope that helps.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  14. #13
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i don't understand why everyone is tripping on the 30lb dumbbells for flyes? i've got a spotter to prove it. He said that it was strong for a girl but I didn't believe him, i thought he meant compared to regular girls. are you saying it's strong period?

    anyways - paulie - sticking point is probably jsut before lockout. I can raise it up off my chest okay, but getting to lockout is a challenge.


    matt - i may have to give the 1-3 reps a shot - i mean i progressed from 45 to 70 - 80 aqt my highest, by dropping reps to the 6-10 range - i can see how tha tmight help.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  15. #14
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    If you were using the 30s with good form on flyes for 8, I'd expect you to be able to bench at least 180lbs for reps.

    So for now I will just say that all this doesn't add up, and there is probably some confusion in all this if we are speaking of the same exercise. I can barely do 2 sets of 8 with 40 lb dbs. I have hit 3 plates on bench once, so if you can compare strength that way, then obviously something is wrong here yes?

    Also, if we are going to compare the triceps pushdowns, I use the 155lbs stack and do 2 speed sets for warmup, so obviously again, a vast difference, but you use 30lbs dbs where I just stopped using the 35s? I would love to hire your spotter.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  16. #15
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tryska


    anyways - paulie - sticking point is probably jsut before lockout. I can raise it up off my chest okay, but getting to lockout is a challenge.


    Triceps.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  17. #16
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    look just cuz i can do almost as much for flyes as you do, doesn't mean i'm bull****ting assface. this is why i made the thread - it isn't adding up for me either, but it is what it is.


    if it clears things up more, on the odd times i do frenchpresses it's 40 for about 6 (molded barbell)


    so paulie - you think i need to focus on building tricep strength?
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  18. #17
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    In Tryska's defense, I think that the flyes/bench ratio is MUCH different for females vs. males due to differences in shoulder width. With flyes, shoulder width really doesn't play into the equation too much, but it certainly changes things with benching due to leverages. Men, with generally wider shoulders, have much better mechanical advantage when benching.

    Tryska, here's my 2 cents...leave off the flat bench altogether for a while and do incline DB presses or BB incline press only. As your strength climbs there, you'll see a big difference when you go back to flat bench. Before I started with my strength coach, I was pretty stagnated on bench, but after several months of doing only inclines, I was inclining more weight than I had on flat bench and when I tried flat benching, my strength had gone way up. My theory is that for women, the shoulders are a chronic weakness and having to engage the shoulders more on inclines helps to strength that weak link.

    Good luck
    Last edited by IceRgrrl; 06-04-2003 at 12:33 PM.

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  19. #18
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Show me your workout.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member
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    can i use your spotter so i can do 455lbs on the bench and 705lbs deadlifts?

  21. #20
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    hmmmm.....i didn't think of incline. i've never done incline to be honest. I might have to give that shot too. Altho i've got this funky thing going on with what seems to be a shopulder muscle insertion point. i'll give it a try and see if it bothers it, and if it doesn't i'll give incliens a shot.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  22. #21
    Banned Berserker's Avatar
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    Personally I like low rep benching.
    Ever do closegrips? How much? Should be close. For me 30 lbs less.

  23. #22
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ADebar
    can i use your spotter so i can do 455lbs on the bench and 705lbs deadlifts?
    my spotter only helps on the last couple reps, by pushin my elbows up on liftoff. everything else is me.


    i wish y'all would set your egos aside for a minute.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  24. #23
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    I've enver done closegirps berserker. don't know how, but would be curious to learn.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  25. #24
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Icer's got something there.

    Do what PMDL says.

    Now.

    Oh, and while you're at it, tell us what you goals are - do you want a big bench, or do you want to look sassy?
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  26. #25
    Wannabebig Member
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    Preparation

    Lie on bench and grasp barbell from rack with a close grip.

    Execution

    Lower weight to chest with elbows close to body. Return and repeat.

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...enchPress.html

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