The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Results 26 to 41 of 41
  1. #26
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Originally posted by booze hound
    I forgot to say natrually. Please can you make some more sweeping genralisations now.
    I asked you to read the post. Obviously you weren't able to, so I will spell it out for you. If there are people like the pros who use steroids and have super genetics and they have trouble doing this, do you really think that anyone natural can build a 21 inch arm in the same (ripped and hard) condition like the pros? Sure any 300 lber has close to a 21 inch arm, but I said muscular (by which I meant an arm in contest shape). Unless you're about eight feet tall (in which case you can hardly be called natural) I doubt it.

    BTW if you are going to use your stats to prove a point, be prepared to offer photographic proof.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-12-2003 at 07:42 AM.

  2. #27
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Booze, post a picture.



    Extreme, I have never seen the qoute from Kennedy you are speaking of. You have to be careful, for example, Bill Pearl took steroids (self-admittedly) but not until late in his career. Not until the late 60s to early 70s (when he won the Universe at 41).

    Grimek is also reported to have experimented with them, but again, not until long after his competitive career was over. They just were not available to these guys back in the 40s, 50s, and very early 60s.

    This quote from Kennedy was from an interview he did in his magazine in 1995 (I think it was the May edition). He was talking about his pet gripes, and one of them was talking with people about the old-timers. He said that hardly a day goes by without people reminding him that the old-timers did it (build their bodies) naturally. That was when he said that about 95% of old-timers were on gear. I took that figure directly from his quote.

    As for when drugs became available. In Rick Wayne's book
    Muscle Wars he claims that Dianabol (I believe that was the drug) became available in the late 40's as a treatment for concentration camp victims. There were thousands and thousands of such said people. I find it a little hard to believe that Dianabol was in limited supply. Will Brink has also written about this.

    Oh and BTW I never said that Grimek used drugs (although I am skeptical of Pearl's claim for reasons I will be happy to elaborate on later) I was simply using him and Pearl as examples of old-timers. I guess the way I wrote did kind of look like that. My bad
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-12-2003 at 07:41 AM.

  3. #28
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    Chris, I have neither a digital camera or a scanner, sorry. I know that i could be another internet bull****ter, but I don't think it is right to generalise so much.
    If in doubt spit it out.

  4. #29
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    If d-bol was used for aiding the victims of concentration camps, which I doubt, it still does not follow that bodybuilders were getting their hands on them. I seriously, seriously doubt that any bodybuilders were using the drugs in the 40s and 50s. If they were, you would not have seen such a difference in the physiques of those guys and the guys of Arnold's era. What do you think made the difference, Joe Weider and his "Weider Principles"?

  5. #30
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    Boozehound no one is going to believe you have 21" arms naturally. Go buy one of those disposable digital cameras that just came out and post some pics. I think they cost like $8 at Wal-mart. Until then you are just another internet bull****ter.

    And Chris I have also heard that steroids were used on p.o.w's after world war 2 to get them back up to a healthy weight before they were shipped home. And how long have steroids been used in Horse Racing? Maybe these old timers were not as natural as we all think.
    Last edited by -sin-; 06-13-2003 at 12:09 AM.

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    If d-bol was used for aiding the victims of concentration camps, which I doubt, it still does not follow that bodybuilders were getting their hands on them. I seriously, seriously doubt that any bodybuilders were using the drugs in the 40s and 50s. If they were, you would not have seen such a difference in the physiques of those guys and the guys of Arnold's era. What do you think made the difference, Joe Weider and his "Weider Principles"?

    LOL. I about fell out of my chair laughing about 'Weider Principles". Score one for Mr. Mason.

    Steriods were known to cause rapid weight gain. That is the Holy Grail of bodybuilding. I doubt bodybuilders would pass up a (at that time) legit way to get big fast. My main reason (for thinking most of them were on gear) is that 99% of the people here, even with the improvements in equipment, food, training and drugs, do not look close to most of the old timers physically. Who here thinks that they could give Colbert a run for his money when he was in the shape that picture shows him above? I am not trying to be disparaging here of anyone either on these boards or of the old-timers. Some were quite likely natural. But some were quite as obviously on gear.

    As for the difference in Arnold's physique and the guys of the 40's, well better drugs and more free time. Most of the guys in the 40's had jobs to support themselves. Arnold received a salary from Weider to train, eat and sleep. Not to mention he likely had better genetics than most of these guys.


    P.S: In case you were wondering, there's nothing personal. I just enjoy a good debate.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-13-2003 at 05:50 AM.

  7. #32
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    In Arnold's day they all took d-bol, the other drugs weren't really in vogue yet. I suppose some of them may have taken other drugs, but d-bol is going to make you as big as any steroid I know of. So, better steroids are not the trick.

    As to the guys having more free time, Arnold was one of the very few (perhaps the only) who didn't have to work. You also cannot attribute greater size to not having a job. There are many jobs which are "easy" and will afford plenty of time for training. In fact, as another argument, Sergio Oliva, one of the hugest of his day worked in a foundry for 12 hours a day for part of his career, and as a cop otherwise. It certainly wasn't the difference in his physique vs. someone like Leroy.

    The difference in physiques was steroid use, plain and simple.

  8. #33
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    The difference in physiques was steroid use, plain and simple.

    In terms of length and dosage maybe. Come on Chris. Let us assume for the sake of argument that Leroy's arms measured 20 inches. Let us further assume that he was natural. That being so, can you explain with all the advances in supplementation, diet and training since then, why so very few people look like that?
    Take this board for example. As a cross-section of the population at large, they are definitely above average in fitness. Yet who here looks like Leroy and is natural?

    Also there are a number of people here also on gear, yet do not look like Pearl, Grimek or Leroy. If one were to look at them and then at the above old-timers, which set of bodybuilders would you suppose he would think was on steroids?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-14-2003 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #34
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    first off let me state everything I think is speculation. More people should state that.
    I I think its hard to judge arm size from the pic, the head thing means nothing. Heads vary.
    As far as steriods go just because they existed in the 40s doesn't mean people could get there hands on them. Times were diferant then, I would guess drugs were not as easy to come by as now adays.
    Also this is a question, was the competion feirce enough and rewards big enoug in the 40s for people to bother with steriods and the trouble to get them?
    Either way nice physique, notice the vacuum.

  10. #35
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    On a flip note, I am interested in pics of natural or near natural. I don't follow the pros at all. Have no interest in them. But somebody natural gives you something strive for, even if it is beyond your reach.

  11. #36
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic



    In terms of length and dosage maybe. Come on Chris. Let us assume for the sake of argument that Leroy's arms measured 20 inches. Let us further assume that he was natural. That being so, can you explain with all the advances in supplementation, diet and training since then, why so very few people look like that?
    Take this board for example. As a cross-section of the population at large, they are definitely above average in fitness. Yet who here looks like Leroy and is natural?

    Also there are a number of people here also on gear, yet do not look like Pearl, Grimek or Leroy. If one were to look at them and then at the above old-timers, which set of bodybuilders would you suppose he would think was on steroids?

    I can explain that by genetics. It is the same reason that you have 7'6" (non-acromegliac) Sean Bradley and Yao Ming, and normal men under 5'2", the gene pool.

    Leroy and the others just happen to be the muscle equivalent of Sean Bradley or Yao. That being said, Arnold or Sergio (2 admitted steroid users) were clearly superior to Leroy and neither of them can hold a candle (in terms of pure mass) to Markus Ruhl or Ronnie Coleman. The difference in them is not genes, it is DRUG USE.

    Now, can you possibly argue the above points in a logical manner?

  12. #37
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    i cant see his legs!
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
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    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by chris mason



    I can explain that by genetics. It is the same reason that you have 7'6" (non-acromegliac) Sean Bradley and Yao Ming, and normal men under 5'2", the gene pool.

    Leroy and the others just happen to be the muscle equivalent of Sean Bradley or Yao. That being said, Arnold or Sergio (2 admitted steroid users) were clearly superior to Leroy and neither of them can hold a candle (in terms of pure mass) to Markus Ruhl or Ronnie Coleman. The difference in them is not genes, it is DRUG USE.

    Now, can you possibly argue the above points in a logical manner?

    I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in this post with the comparisions, but I will try to make a "logical" reply based on what I think you are trying to say. You claim that it was drugs that made the difference between Leroy and Arnold. Fair enough. My question then is, if drugs make such a difference (like that between Leroy and Arnold) then why is that only a handful of people (pro bodybuilders) have surpassed Leroy? Take some of the people on this board for example. Some of them have great genes and use/have used gear. Yet they don't look even close to Leroy. If he was natural, why is this? There are many people out there who have great genes and use gear. Yet Colbert remains an outstanding physique. Sure he may have had better genes than these people. Is that enough to overcome the advantages of heavy gear use combined with great genetics? Not in Arnold's case, but how many Arnolds do you see walking around today?

    Anyway I have had my say and presented my case. I just find it hard to believe that great genetics alone can get one a 20 inch arm, when Arnold for one was only able to obtain that measurement with steroids. As far as Leroy being the muscle equivalent of Sean Bradley, wouldn't that apply to say Ronnie Coleman too? After all drugs alone will get you only so far. Were that not true we would have hundreds of Arnolds and Colemans out there in the general population.

    Now I will bow out of this. Thanks for the debate. It was interesting. Have a good day!
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-15-2003 at 03:27 AM.

  14. #39
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    My comparisons were concerning genes. Just as some people can naturally be extremely tall, others have the genes for huge muscles with good shape. As for people on this board being as good as Leroy clean, I don't think you quite get it. Leroy was a genetic freak, just like Yao Ming is a 7'6" genetic freak. There are very few people with Leroy's genes running around out there, and even fewer still that take advantage of those genes by training with weights. Get it?

    Now, as to Arnold and Leroy, good genes combined with steroids will always beat out good genes with no steroids. That is just the way it is. That is why you have so many guys onstage these days at 5'8-10" and 250 lbs + onstage. That is why Leroy doesn't look like Kevin Levrone, or any of the other batch of current high level pros. Leroy's upper body is basically the pinnacle of what one can do clean (or as close as need be for our discussion). As to people on this board, there is at least one who is close to Leroy in the arm department (if not his equal). Cliff Allen can get his arms to push 20" naturally while maintaining relatively low bodyfat. One more thing, I have never said Leroy had a 20" arm in shape, in fact, I think is was more likely in the 19" range.

  15. #40
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    I have seen other pictures of him, and where he shows Arnold like size, and I would say he took d-bol.
    A big thanks to all my friends in the USA, I am deeply grateful for your hospitality and kindness.

  16. #41
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    DBOL!

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