Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Training for strength vs, Training for size??

  1. #1
    bench, deadlift & eat!!!!! Mic Soloist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,959

    Training for strength vs, Training for size??

    What are the main differences in the approach that should be taken when working for each goal. I read an article saying it is possible to work for both at the same time but I was wondering what the differences are when working for one or the other. Right now I am more interested in size. However once I gain on my arms and chest I will probably be leaning back towards focusing on strength.

    So please give me some tips and advice.



    -peace-
    Current Stats

    24 years old

    5'10 220 pounds



    Waist: 38 Shoulders 56 Chest: 47 Arms (cold): 17.5 Forearms: 13.5 Quads: 26.5 Calves: 16.5 Neck: 17.5

    PR's

    BB Bench: 315 @ 215
    Squats: 410 @ 205 (last winter)
    Deads 515 @ 214
    Total: 1240


    My Journal:

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...&page=16&pp=25

    My AIM: MSOLOIST


    Intensity: Lunch comes up! And breakfast! MET- Rx! Egg whites! Hot Stuff! Designer Whey! Yohimbe! Coenzyme Q! L-Carnatine. MTCs. OKG. All immersed in a mixture of stomach acids that peels the ivory off your teeth.

  2. #2
    Define Your Soul SoulOfKoRea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
    Posts
    1,546
    well Bodybuilding is building the body , for size and strength
    powerlifting would be for strength, speed, and power...<~~
    My profile picture is about 5 years old, I'll get around to taking some progress pics eventually.

  3. #3
    bench, deadlift & eat!!!!! Mic Soloist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,959
    Is there any specific method of training for size rather than strength?

    Such as the method of doing your sets of the number of reps or sets?



    -peace-
    Current Stats

    24 years old

    5'10 220 pounds



    Waist: 38 Shoulders 56 Chest: 47 Arms (cold): 17.5 Forearms: 13.5 Quads: 26.5 Calves: 16.5 Neck: 17.5

    PR's

    BB Bench: 315 @ 215
    Squats: 410 @ 205 (last winter)
    Deads 515 @ 214
    Total: 1240


    My Journal:

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...&page=16&pp=25

    My AIM: MSOLOIST


    Intensity: Lunch comes up! And breakfast! MET- Rx! Egg whites! Hot Stuff! Designer Whey! Yohimbe! Coenzyme Q! L-Carnatine. MTCs. OKG. All immersed in a mixture of stomach acids that peels the ivory off your teeth.

  4. #4
    Define Your Soul SoulOfKoRea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
    Posts
    1,546
    HST
    My profile picture is about 5 years old, I'll get around to taking some progress pics eventually.

  5. #5
    bench, deadlift & eat!!!!! Mic Soloist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,959
    Originally posted by SoulOfKoRea
    HST
    ok, I'm a newbie(starting in Jan) so I'm new to the term. I might even be doing it but please explain.



    -peace-
    Current Stats

    24 years old

    5'10 220 pounds



    Waist: 38 Shoulders 56 Chest: 47 Arms (cold): 17.5 Forearms: 13.5 Quads: 26.5 Calves: 16.5 Neck: 17.5

    PR's

    BB Bench: 315 @ 215
    Squats: 410 @ 205 (last winter)
    Deads 515 @ 214
    Total: 1240


    My Journal:

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...&page=16&pp=25

    My AIM: MSOLOIST


    Intensity: Lunch comes up! And breakfast! MET- Rx! Egg whites! Hot Stuff! Designer Whey! Yohimbe! Coenzyme Q! L-Carnatine. MTCs. OKG. All immersed in a mixture of stomach acids that peels the ivory off your teeth.

  6. #6
    Diesel Hercule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,766
    Just about any good bodybuilding routine will help you gain size. Do mainly 6-10 reps on your exercises. The main thing that is going to make you bigger is too EAT EAT EAT. When you want to train for pure strength, try Westside.

  7. #7
    Bad Monkey! Nights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    cowtown, alberta
    Posts
    1,730
    Originally posted by Hercule
    When you want to train for pure strength, try Westside.
    I'd disagree with the definition of pure strength being equal to powerlifting, but maybe that's just me. In my thoughts, the fact you are training mostly for three exercises, and the max on those exercise being your main concern, it isn't really pure strength. Don't get me wrong, you'll get stronger in all the accessory work related to those big 3, but.. I don't know how to say it. Look how many powerlifters go into strong man competitions would be the best way. Not many.

    Now, if you were talking strength training and powerlifting in the same way, the main difference between powerlifting and bodybuilding is you focus on those three exercises, or those that relate to them, as well as the accessory work needed for the muscle in those exercises. You work your max more often then bb, and also include speed training (for most pl programs). I don't mean speed training like running, but stuff like speed squats where, with a decent amount of weight (but nowhere near 3rep max) you complete something like 10 sets of 3 reps, very little time between sets, focusing on how quick you can -force- the rep. Don't get me wrong, you focus on doing it right, but the goal is to move faster then before during the motion.

    Now, an example of size training, like someone mentioned, is HST (hypertrophy-specific training). In this, you establish your current 15, 10 and 5 rep max then take a break between before beginning the program so that you lose strength (not size, that actually takes longer). Now, when you begin, you start with a weight way less then your 15 rep max for all exercises, and over two week (doing full body (or upper/lower splits) 3 times a week) you work up to that 15 rep max, then go on for 2 weeks 10 reps , 2 weeks 5 using the same progression on each.

    Now, in this the goal is never to hit failure so that you don't wear down the neuro system, but rather to trick your body that less is more. So while you are progressing to get up to your 15, 10 and 5 rep max, you never actually gain any strength (in theory). Same time, you put enough stress on the body that it's forced to grow.

    Or tradition training for size is like the programs you see most people here use, though they use progression in strength as a guide for "it's working, not working" so it's a combo of both.
    LaLa

  8. #8
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,677
    A note of interest, before the use of steroids the best powermen were also the physique champions. John Grimek for example, an Olympic lifter of note and Mr. America champion. Tommy Kono was a very successful Olympic lifter and he competed a few times as a bodybuilder. There are many others, the point being there was a lot of crossover.

  9. #9
    Of the driver ilk
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    548
    Strongman events require more technique than powerlifting lifts. Comparing them is like comparing water with dirt.
    "42"

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Vancouver and Bogota
    Posts
    131
    I always heard that for strength it was best to train based on cycling percents. You have light, medium, heavy and maximum days. Light is 60-70%, med is 70-80%, heavy is 89-90% and max is 90-110%. The order we do those in are max, med, heavy, light, med, heavy, light then repeat. This is for olympic lifting but I'm sure it would work for anything.

  11. #11
    Banned The_Brick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    440
    Originally posted by chris mason
    A note of interest, before the use of steroids the best powermen were also the physique champions. John Grimek for example, an Olympic lifter of note and Mr. America champion. Tommy Kono was a very successful Olympic lifter and he competed a few times as a bodybuilder. There are many others, the point being there was a lot of crossover.
    Interesting point Chris. Arnold was also successful in powerlifting as national Champ in Austria.

  12. #12
    Goldyn Chyld of the East ENYCE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    BedStuy
    Posts
    30
    I need to do HST but I'm afraid I'll loose the precious weight I worked so hard 4 during the deconditioning phase

  13. #13
    Son of Krypton Majestic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,412
    Originally posted by ENYCE
    I need to do HST but I'm afraid I'll loose the precious weight I worked so hard 4 during the deconditioning phase


    Wha??????

    I thought they recommended increasing your calories during the Decon phase? It would be impossible to lose muscle tissue, if that were the case.

    Are they not recommending increasing your calories during the Decon. anymore?

  14. #14
    back at it Beast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    0
    Originally posted by The_Brick


    Interesting point Chris. Arnold was also successful in powerlifting as national Champ in Austria.
    As well as Franco Columbo. Just look at his DL.....

    D 435 / S 340 / B 305

    Journal

    "I avoid talking to normal people about this stuff as much as possible. It's usually a waste of time." - HahnB

    "OMG HE EETS 2 MUCH0RZ!!111 O NOES HE EETS TEH FATS!!!111" - PowerManDL

    "Test does a body good." - Severed Ties

  15. #15
    . Delphi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,020
    Originally posted by Mic Soloist


    ok, I'm a newbie(starting in Jan) so I'm new to the term. I might even be doing it but please explain.



    -peace-

    Mic, HST is Hypertrophy-Specific Training. It's a program devoped by Bryan Haycock. Here's a link to the Articles page on his website. Here's some of the key points of the method:

    1) Full-body workouts 3 times a week.

    2) Emphasis on compound, rather than isolation, exercises.

    3) Increase the weight used for each exercise each workout.

    4) Gradually decreasing rep range: 15-15-12-12-9-9-6-6-negs-negs is the rep range used for each week if I remember correctly.

    5) Lifting to failure is a no-no (taxes the nervous system).

    6) Protein synthesis returns to baseline 36-48 hours after a workout so it's optimal to workout after 48 hours (no wasted time).

    7) The tendency is to start off with weights too heavy. You end up not being able to get your goal reps at the end of the two weeks of a particlular rep range if you're not careful.

    8) Lots of people have made impressive weight/mass gains over a cycle. You have to eat like a mofo to do that.

    9) Others have made good strength gains but not gained much size.

    10) Some people haven't been impressed by their results.

    11) There's lots of ways to modify basic HST. That link above has a link somewhere to Bryan's HST forum where there's lots of discussion on that.

    12) There's at least 15-20 threads on HST at this site. Use the search button at the top of the page and browse through them. If you have questions you might start a new thread or PM some of the people who have taken a large part in those threads. If you want to PM me that's fine.

  16. #16
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Between a girls ties!
    Posts
    4,593
    The Brick, Arnold was also european powerlifting champion at age 19.
    A big thanks to all my friends in the USA, I am deeply grateful for your hospitality and kindness.

  17. #17
    Banned The_Brick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    440
    Damn. Does that answer the original post?

    Maybe aesthetics and strength do go hand in hand.

  18. #18
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Lot of good stuff here. Don't compare strength training to powerlifting training, they are not the same. Powerlifting is a sport, and these lifters are pretty much only concerned with how much weight they can lift 1 time, under prescribed conditions, for only 1-3 lifts, being the dead, bench and squat. The techniques used are used to facilitate the most weight lifted for that given lift. Often leaps in "strength" in powerlifting have relatively little to do with actual muscular performance, but are generally related to new found techniques, or tweaking of existing techniques, or new equipment implemented for their routines or max attempts.

    That doesn't mean that they aren't strong, of course they are, it's just a different form of lifting, and style of training. So we should always try to keep these seperate when speaking of strength training versus powerlifting.

    And yes, you can combine all sorts of aspects of training together. Just figure out your goals first, and tailor a routine towards those goals.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  19. #19
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,677
    I didn't mention Arnold and Franco because I was noting pre-steroid guys .

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •