The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Grand Kaiser of h8 RG570's Avatar
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    HST and my punk brother

    my youner brother (11yrs) has finally started displaying an interest in weightlifting. Today while i was training i noticed him halphazardly bumbling around the gym aimlessly, not a clue where to begin (though i've tried to talk to him before, he wasnt really interested). I plan on starting him on a program similar to HST.
    For at a while i'll be having him using no resistance other then the bar, until he learns proper form. This is what i am considering:

    Bench press----2*15/Assisted Dips 2*15
    Military press----2*15
    Lat pulldown----2*15/DB rows 2*15
    Squats------------2*15
    Deadlifts----------1*15/Leg curl 1*15
    Calf Raise---------2*15
    Situps-------------1*15
    3x a week

    At this time, his diet is pretty horrendous, but we'll work on that.
    Any thoughts other then "he's too young"?
    Last edited by RG570; 06-11-2003 at 12:40 AM.
    Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"

    Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."

    BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"

    sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"

    Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."

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  3. #2
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    Bench press----2*15/Assisted Dips 2*15
    Military press----2*15
    Lat pulldown----2*15/DB rows 2*15
    Squats------------2*15
    Deadlifts----------1*15/Leg curl 1*15
    Calf Raise---------2*15
    Situps-------------1*15

    even though you're aiming for really light exercise, i'd rotate between squats/deadlifts. either that, or have him do squats and sldl's but ditch leg curls (as they'd probably not be needed).

    the general format of what you're saying sounds pretty good, though. particularly at that age, just make sure he has a comprehension of how to perform the movements correctly. reinforce good technique until it really, really sinks in.

  4. #3
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    He's too youn......


    Never mind.

  5. #4
    Indifferent Wu36's Avatar
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    i wish i started that young...

  6. #5
    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    Kick a dude I wish I had an older brother that wouldda hoked me up like that. Only think I would look at is those days that there are two sets. Is one a work set and one warm up. Because remember volume is the key your looking at a total of 6 work sets in a week if you do two for a body part. Overstraining may become an issue. Just a thought...
    Last edited by SquareHead; 06-11-2003 at 07:16 PM.
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Fenbay's Avatar
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    I squarely believe that directly after puberty is ideal. Makes sense too doesn't it??
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  8. #7
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    What good does it do to wait until after puberty?

    Alternatively, what harm does it do to lift weights before puberty?

  9. #8
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    RG 570, looks good. I would suggest doing the pulldowns and DB rows each workout rather than alternating them. The back is a big area and deserves two exercises, as opposed to the triceps getting two of them each workout.

    I would also not do the benchpress/dips and military press exercises back-to-back. Maybe pulldown, press, DB row, press.

    Good exercise selection- almost all compound exercises.

  10. #9
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    Puberty can last clear into your early 20s. I think its clearly established that the best time to start is mid to late teenage years, and dont tell me that all men have gone through puberty by 15.

  11. #10
    Grand Kaiser of h8 RG570's Avatar
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    so what if he doesnt make huge amounts of progress for another few years, he'll be getting technique headstarts, and by the time his cojones start pumping, he'll allready be stronger then the other kids. Hell, he might even go into highschool as a competitive PLer. that would rule!
    Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"

    Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."

    BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"

    sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"

    Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."

  12. #11
    Senior Member Fenbay's Avatar
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    I don't have studies to quote, and it doesn't matter enough to me to look it up, but there has always been talk that compressing your body via weights could stunt your growth.

    Seeing as they can literally increase the length of a bone by effectively pulling on them. <there's new techniques for this to treat dwarfism etc> then why wouldnt constant loads cause the opposite?

    Now lifting ultra light weight and learning the exercises is another matter imo. But if he's like most boys he will want to do more if nothing else to impress his older brother etc.

    Oh yeah and puberty lasting til 20? Maybe if they have some medical disorder. Certainly not on any normal individual.
    Last edited by Fenbay; 06-12-2003 at 03:41 PM.
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  13. #12
    Feed me weird things. fuzz's Avatar
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    Its not really HST if he is just doing 15 reps every other day with no progression of the weights. Its a good way to learn technique, but not HST.

  14. #13
    Grand Kaiser of h8 RG570's Avatar
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    Yeah, sure, constant loads could probably effect bone length, but hes going to be doing 6 sets of squats, spread out over a week. It'll be a long time yet before he could even do a plate a side. If he gets cocky i'll just slap him-i know better then to allow him to try and max out on anything.

    puberty doesnt just come and go in a matter of months, it is certainly a multiple year process. maybe someone with nothing better to do can back this up with some research.
    Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"

    Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."

    BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"

    sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"

    Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."

  15. #14
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    Originally posted by Fenbay
    I don't have studies to quote, and it doesn't matter enough to me to look it up, but there has always been talk that compressing your body via weights could stunt your growth.

    Seeing as they can literally increase the length of a bone by effectively pulling on them. <there's new techniques for this to treat dwarfism etc> then why wouldnt constant loads cause the opposite?

    Now lifting ultra light weight and learning the exercises is another matter imo. But if he's like most boys he will want to do more if nothing else to impress his older brother etc.

    Oh yeah and puberty lasting til 20? Maybe if they have some medical disorder. Certainly not on any normal individual.
    the logic is flawed because regular sport, jumping, and running exposes a developing body to several times the forces that the most ballistic of lifting could ever hope to. my foot/ankle can get ****ed up (even in running shoes) from running even a couple of miles, but no amount of squats or deads or anything has EVER hurt my tentative foot/ankle. further, i have yet to see one peer review cited reference indicating ANY link between 'stunting of one's growth' and 'lifting weights.' i think the observation was made via gymnastics and weight lifters often being 'short.' however, this is backwards thinking, as shorter limb length and such strongly predisposes one to excelling in those endeavors. it's like observing that basketball players are tall, and then predicting that basketball will make you tall. it doesn't work like that...

  16. #15
    Grand Kaiser of h8 RG570's Avatar
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    Fuzz: eventually i will have him doing some progression, but at a much, much lower rate then suggested.
    Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"

    Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."

    BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"

    sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"

    Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."

  17. #16
    Senior Member Fenbay's Avatar
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    The information backing it up may be purely anectdotal, but I for one would prefer to err on the side of safety when it comes to total growth potential. Like I stated previously, I'm not willing to do the research to find out, but this is one of those "old wives tales" that I'd be more likely to listen to just because of the theoretical ramifications.
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  18. #17
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    I somewhat agree with Fenbay on this one. I don't really believe that weight training will stunt one's growth, unless it's not done properly, of course.

    I kind of think that maybe squats with HEAVY weights could stunt growth, but with light loads shouldn't be a problem.

    But still, I too would err on the side of safety.

    RG, looks like what you're doing is alright. Maybe back off on the frequency a bit, and just do twice a week and take extra care with the squats and deads, coz I think there is more potential for injury with those exercises if not done properly. But I think you already know all this.
    Last edited by Tank23; 06-12-2003 at 11:02 PM.
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  19. #18
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fenbay
    The information backing it up may be purely anectdotal, but I for one would prefer to err on the side of safety when it comes to total growth potential. Like I stated previously, I'm not willing to do the research to find out, but this is one of those "old wives tales" that I'd be more likely to listen to just because of the theoretical ramifications.
    Would you let your kids play little league? PeeWee football? Soccer? All can and have caused growth plate injuries...
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  20. #19
    Senior Member Fenbay's Avatar
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    I think you're comparing apples and oranges. How many times did you experience serious DOMS playing little league? Hmm for me never as I recall. In fact I don't think any sport until high school football caused me any significant soreness.

    In "normal" physical activites the body is able to compensate for the most fluid movements possible and naturally selects the path of least resistance. IE: while your running bases your ankle bends too much one way and your knees will compensate etc.

    The very goal of weight training is to isolate muscle groups and work them to a level where break-down occurrs. This also puts great stress on the joints/tendons/cartlidge/fluids etc directly involved in those muscle groups as evidenced by so many posts about this and that hurting after performing exercise x. Me being a logical person, it makes "sense" to me that putting a young growing body under those stresses isn't practical and possibly not safe.
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  21. #20
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Do you think soccer is any less stressful? All sports put tons of stress on the muscles, ligaments and joints. All those sports have just as much if not more injuries than bodybuilding. Weightlifting has actually been shown to reduce the number of injuries for these sports.

    What about kids wearing shoulder pads for hours at a time to play pee wee football?


    I can remember getting sore in middle school because I used to do a lot of running. I used to play baseball all the time and would get pretty sore arms from thowing the ball and abs too if I had a long batting practice that day.



    I retrospect. I wish I had started earlier.
    Last edited by WillKuenzel; 06-13-2003 at 11:25 AM.
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  22. #21
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fenbay
    I think you're comparing apples and oranges. How many times did you experience serious DOMS playing little league? Hmm for me never as I recall. In fact I don't think any sport until high school football caused me any significant soreness.

    ***Never, WTF does that have to do with having an injury that could cause a growth plate issue?

    In "normal" physical activites the body is able to compensate for the most fluid movements possible and naturally selects the path of least resistance. IE: while your running bases your ankle bends too much one way and your knees will compensate etc.

    ***Right, that must be why no one has ever twisted an ankle or broken a foot running bases. Oh wait, my brother once broke his foot running bases.

    The very goal of weight training is to isolate muscle groups and work them to a level where break-down occurrs. This also puts great stress on the joints/tendons/cartlidge/fluids etc directly involved in those muscle groups as evidenced by so many posts about this and that hurting after performing exercise x. Me being a logical person, it makes "sense" to me that putting a young growing body under those stresses isn't practical and possibly not safe.

    ***Weight lifting is generally predictable. You cannot predict how you're kid will land when tackled, or where a ball is going to be hit (possibly causing a collision with another kid), or if a basketball shot is going to end up coming down and being stepped on, thus turning or breaking an ankle...I could go on and on. Lifting is generally done in a controlled, supervised environment where injuries are much less likely to occur.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  23. #22
    Senior Member Fenbay's Avatar
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    Whatever, we could argue this forever. I have my opinion you have yours.
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  24. #23
    Ash "Money" Hegde Y2A's Avatar
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    I wish my bro got me into training when I was 11, your bro is gonna be a sports star in middle/high school
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  25. #24
    Grand Kaiser of h8 RG570's Avatar
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    what does everybody think of DB lunges versus squats, my brother seems a little uncomfortable with the bar accross his back, and his legs are still far too weak to keep his knees from wobbling an imense amount.
    Pup, in reference to me: "he's like Budiak...but worse"

    Budiak: "Statistically I've gained almost an inch on my arms...but thats just theory, and we know what theory gets us. Thats right. Communism."

    BigChaseyChase: "Cutting, there will not be!"

    sir millard mulch: "I could probably punch some chick really hard at this point"

    Galileo - "Someday maybe I'll be able to use the big boy weights like RG570."

  26. #25
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fenbay

    I don't have studies to quote, and it doesn't matter enough to me to look it up, but there has always been talk that compressing your body via weights could stunt your growth.

    There are no studies to quote, because there is no evidence to back up that theory. You can't prove a negative.

    Seeing as they can literally increase the length of a bone by effectively pulling on them. <there's new techniques for this to treat dwarfism etc> then why wouldnt constant loads cause the opposite?

    To increase bone length in dwarves they actually fracture the bones and then apply external fixators. Adjustments are made on the fixators daily, making for a slightly wider gap between the original bone ends for deposition of more new bone. They are not actually stretching the bones.

    Now lifting ultra light weight and learning the exercises is another matter imo. But if he's like most boys he will want to do more if nothing else to impress his older brother etc.

    Oh yeah and puberty lasting til 20? Maybe if they have some medical disorder. Certainly not on any normal individual.


    Depends on how you define puberty. Cessation of growth that begins around the onset of puberty does not end until the early to mid- twenties. Puberty is not just the short time period when the voice deepens and hair grows in males, or when breasts begin to grow and menses begin in females.

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